N
NDhunter
Guest
Here are some pics of Dall Sheep in Alaska, can you find the 2 in the photo?
Here is a close up of one, is he a shooter??
Here is a close up of one, is he a shooter??
N
NDhunter
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Sep-25-09 AT 12:03PM (MST)[p]Well, I misjudged this ram...let him walk on day 1 at 295 yards with no wind and a rock solid rest, shortly after I took this pic. Hard to do, but thought we should look around a little more. Two days later I got another opportunity and am glad I took it. Exact same distance, but the weather wasn't quite as nice for the pictures. His mass is hard to believe. I am still wondering why I passed him that first day!!
muleycrazy
Active Member
- Messages
- 241
What a nice Ram, congrats to you. Were you with an outfitter ? Where at ?
Thanks again for the photos !
" Just Livin' the Dream "
Thanks again for the photos !
" Just Livin' the Dream "
J
jagrmystr
Guest
Beautiful ram. Congrats !
N
NDhunter
Guest
I was in the Chugach Mtns just outside of Anchorage, portions of the hunt I am trying to block out of my mind (alders and devils club), all I do is look at the horns or the pics and my mind goes back to the good parts! When I drew the tag back in Feb I booked with Lance Kronberger who runs Freelanceoutdooradventures.com and went out with one of his guides-Shane Reynolds to hunt the area. I had him scored down in Kingsville, TX by an SCI Master Measurer on Thursday...he went 174 7/8. His bases (15+) and mass (1st qtr at 14!)throughout are what puts him over the top. His length just misses 40, regardless of the number I couldn't be happier with him...we earned him though that is for sure!
D
DougW
Guest
AWESOME Ed. Looks like you burned lots of calories. How long does it take to get from one drainage to the next up there, just wondering?
muleycrazy
Active Member
- Messages
- 241
LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-09 AT 10:00AM (MST)[p]Ed, So did you have to draw a 14C tag ?
Beautiful Ram, well earned.
Dave
" Just Livin' the Dream "
Beautiful Ram, well earned.
Dave
" Just Livin' the Dream "
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,409
Wow ND
Passing on a 174 Dall is like saying no thanks to a winning lottery ticket! You must be living right to have a second chance! Did your guide think you were nuts or did he encourage you to pass?
Anyway, congratulations on a beautiful husky ram. He is gorgeous and will be a trophy to long remember.
Passing on a 174 Dall is like saying no thanks to a winning lottery ticket! You must be living right to have a second chance! Did your guide think you were nuts or did he encourage you to pass?
Anyway, congratulations on a beautiful husky ram. He is gorgeous and will be a trophy to long remember.
N
NDhunter
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Sep-28-09 AT 04:53PM (MST)[p]Dave, yes that was a 14C tag, DS 139. Ltlbighorn-I know! My guide just said it is my hunt and he was there to help me get the ram I wanted, he was a great guy. One of the toughest dudes I have ever met too. Doug, it wasn't too bad. Maybe 2hrs to go from one to the next. That country is steep, rough, and rocky.
Ed,
Congratulations on a great ram. I drew DS132 this year and my hunt was a disaster. I saw only one legal ram and someone else beat me to it opening morning. I hiked over 50 miles in the Chugach Mountains. I hunted in the Pioneer Peak and Peters Creek areas. We also had weather problems.
I am most upset with the outfitter I used. I feel his performance was terrible and that he misled me. The guide who was with me on the hunt was fine. The outfitter was referred to me by another outfitter I had used on an earlier unsuccessful sheep hunt. I sent the outfitter a letter detailing my problems with him. He has not responded and it has been over three weeks.
The most unfortunate thing is that the tag was probably once in a lifetime due to my age. I also cannot afford another sheep hunt.
Mark
Congratulations on a great ram. I drew DS132 this year and my hunt was a disaster. I saw only one legal ram and someone else beat me to it opening morning. I hiked over 50 miles in the Chugach Mountains. I hunted in the Pioneer Peak and Peters Creek areas. We also had weather problems.
I am most upset with the outfitter I used. I feel his performance was terrible and that he misled me. The guide who was with me on the hunt was fine. The outfitter was referred to me by another outfitter I had used on an earlier unsuccessful sheep hunt. I sent the outfitter a letter detailing my problems with him. He has not responded and it has been over three weeks.
The most unfortunate thing is that the tag was probably once in a lifetime due to my age. I also cannot afford another sheep hunt.
Mark
N
NDhunter
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-09 AT 06:48PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Sep-30-09 AT 06:46?PM (MST)
Mark, that is too bad your hunt went the way it did. I know Lance took some guys up in the Peters Creek area and they got a great ram. 50 miles in the Chugach is some rough miles, you never know-I hear 3rd time is a charm. Don't give up applying-if you do I can assure you that you won't draw. On your whole hunt (10 days??) you only saw 1 legal ram-the first day??
We didn't see that many legal rams either, maybe 2 others, but the mass on this one really stood out when compared with the rest.
Mark, that is too bad your hunt went the way it did. I know Lance took some guys up in the Peters Creek area and they got a great ram. 50 miles in the Chugach is some rough miles, you never know-I hear 3rd time is a charm. Don't give up applying-if you do I can assure you that you won't draw. On your whole hunt (10 days??) you only saw 1 legal ram-the first day??
We didn't see that many legal rams either, maybe 2 others, but the mass on this one really stood out when compared with the rest.
Ed,
I spent the first five days of the hunt hiking up and down the Pioneer Peak part of the unit. I saw one legal ram that was just barely legal on the Twin Peaks side of the unit. Someone beat us to it on opening morning. I saw a few other non-legal rams, but mostly I saw ewes and lambs.
The next five days or so were spent in the Peters Creek drainage. We saw some rams, but no legal ones. There was one other hunter we say who had taken a ram, but that was it.
I am so upset at the moment with the outfitter that I am not sure if I will apply again. I will likely keep applying, but the draw process has changed. The number of nonresident tags has been severely limited. I have now been on two guided sheep hunts that were terrible and a guided deer hunt that was also terrible. I am not real pleased with the guiding industry. I don't expect to be successful each trip, but I do expect a reasonable chance. However, time may change my attitude.
I spent the first five days of the hunt hiking up and down the Pioneer Peak part of the unit. I saw one legal ram that was just barely legal on the Twin Peaks side of the unit. Someone beat us to it on opening morning. I saw a few other non-legal rams, but mostly I saw ewes and lambs.
The next five days or so were spent in the Peters Creek drainage. We saw some rams, but no legal ones. There was one other hunter we say who had taken a ram, but that was it.
I am so upset at the moment with the outfitter that I am not sure if I will apply again. I will likely keep applying, but the draw process has changed. The number of nonresident tags has been severely limited. I have now been on two guided sheep hunts that were terrible and a guided deer hunt that was also terrible. I am not real pleased with the guiding industry. I don't expect to be successful each trip, but I do expect a reasonable chance. However, time may change my attitude.
T
TBinKodiak
Guest
Ed,
Congrats on a great ram. Love the width of his head, just a freak, looks like a horse.
Mark,
Do some of your own research before hand next time. DS132 has like a 17% success rate over the past 5 years, which is horrible. That area DS130-132 has a success rate of around 25% for the entire season(largest ram taken was 38" x 13" in past 5 years). Heck DS139 only has a success rate of around 35% (only 3 over 40" in past 5 years). I think non-residents put way too much weight into draw hunts. They aren't necessarily draw because the success rate is high. 14C is draw because it's close to Anchorage, sure it holds a few big rams, but its main draw is that it's easy to access and cheap for residents. I don't even waste the $5 to put in for those hunts. If you look up the stats you'll see that the Brooks, Wrangells, and Western AK Ranges all have higher success rates,35-45%, not to mention they are OTC tags and kill as many 40"+ rams. The guides up here burn thousands upon thousands of dollars flying all summer buzzing and harassing sheep to find the biggest rams for their clients, and all season harrasing resident hunters (the MO of out of state guides). The problem with 14C is that residents can access it the same as guides so it levels the playing field to some extent. In a lot of open areas they have bullied the transporters into not using certain strips thus removing all resident hunters. You aren't going to get a 100% guaranteed hunt, but those types of guides would be your best bet if you do. IMHO
I obviously have no respect for that type of behavior, but unfortunatley that is the current situation. I actually respect you more for taking the tag you did and going up against the resident hunters.
My Delta ram from 2005, 45 miles round trip from the truck (saw 9 legal rams). 37" x 14.25" bases
This year's ram from an open area, taken on August 26th, 2 weeks after the opener. Only 8 miles from the landing strip (saw 5 legal rams, one in the 38" range). 35" x 13.75" and 13.5"
Buddy's ram taken out of the same band at the same time from 40 yards, 34.75" x 12.5" (mine's not in this picture because it dropped 1100 feet off a cliff)
Spend some time reasearching and kill a big one on your next trip.
TB
Congrats on a great ram. Love the width of his head, just a freak, looks like a horse.
Mark,
Do some of your own research before hand next time. DS132 has like a 17% success rate over the past 5 years, which is horrible. That area DS130-132 has a success rate of around 25% for the entire season(largest ram taken was 38" x 13" in past 5 years). Heck DS139 only has a success rate of around 35% (only 3 over 40" in past 5 years). I think non-residents put way too much weight into draw hunts. They aren't necessarily draw because the success rate is high. 14C is draw because it's close to Anchorage, sure it holds a few big rams, but its main draw is that it's easy to access and cheap for residents. I don't even waste the $5 to put in for those hunts. If you look up the stats you'll see that the Brooks, Wrangells, and Western AK Ranges all have higher success rates,35-45%, not to mention they are OTC tags and kill as many 40"+ rams. The guides up here burn thousands upon thousands of dollars flying all summer buzzing and harassing sheep to find the biggest rams for their clients, and all season harrasing resident hunters (the MO of out of state guides). The problem with 14C is that residents can access it the same as guides so it levels the playing field to some extent. In a lot of open areas they have bullied the transporters into not using certain strips thus removing all resident hunters. You aren't going to get a 100% guaranteed hunt, but those types of guides would be your best bet if you do. IMHO
I obviously have no respect for that type of behavior, but unfortunatley that is the current situation. I actually respect you more for taking the tag you did and going up against the resident hunters.
My Delta ram from 2005, 45 miles round trip from the truck (saw 9 legal rams). 37" x 14.25" bases
This year's ram from an open area, taken on August 26th, 2 weeks after the opener. Only 8 miles from the landing strip (saw 5 legal rams, one in the 38" range). 35" x 13.75" and 13.5"
Buddy's ram taken out of the same band at the same time from 40 yards, 34.75" x 12.5" (mine's not in this picture because it dropped 1100 feet off a cliff)
Spend some time reasearching and kill a big one on your next trip.
TB
T
TBinKodiak
Guest
Forgot to post the ADF&G website for harvest data. Here you go.
http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=harvest.lookup
Hope that helps.
TB
http://www.wildlife.alaska.gov/index.cfm?fuseaction=harvest.lookup
Hope that helps.
TB
N
NDhunter
Guest
TB-great rams! I wish I had the opportunity to chase those critters around every year! The AK G&F web site has to be one of the best I have ver seen as far as being able to look up anything you could imagine on a specific hunt. The site is pretty user friendly once you get to where you want to go and you can look up anything you can imagine. I didn't even know about it prior to putting in for my hunt. My outfitter had excellent recommendations and I applied for that hunt with hours to spare until the deadline so I took a chance and it paid off. I based my decision on the unit with the 10 min conversation I had with him (DS 102 was my 1st choice). He said only to put in for 139 if you are in good shape, luckily I was-because it was no joke. I was concerned with the numbers of resident hunters who had drawn and he said it wasn't much of a thought that entered his mind-in his experience the proximity of being close to Anchorage is nice when a guy looks at a map but when your boots hit the ground it is a different story. Sure a resident can drive from his house to the trailhead but it is still 15+ miles back to where the good rams live. Most nonres hunters have too much to loose not to hunt their ass off-and they have to have a guide, so a little bit of the work is in someone else's hands now. For the resident hunters who aren't as dedicated (of course there are many that are) and simply draw the tag it is pretty easy to give up and drive home and sleep in that warm bed that night. For me, it wasn't an option. I was there to kill a ram and endure the misery that came along with it. My outfitter was 100% right-I didn't even see another hunter, not at the trailhead, trail, or looking through a spotting scope at 3 mies. If you look at those stats on 139, historically about 10% of the recipients don't even hunt! For a draw tag that has 2% odds that is staggering to me.
Another question that comes to mind is measurements on sheep. With mass being the largest component in a ram's B&C score wouldn't you think that more emphasis would be placed on that when talking about measurements. All you ever hear on Dall sheep is length-40 being the "magic" number. In reality mass is everything. If my ram had had average (13 in) bases he would be a good ram, his bases and mass throughout is what put him in a different category.
Another question that comes to mind is measurements on sheep. With mass being the largest component in a ram's B&C score wouldn't you think that more emphasis would be placed on that when talking about measurements. All you ever hear on Dall sheep is length-40 being the "magic" number. In reality mass is everything. If my ram had had average (13 in) bases he would be a good ram, his bases and mass throughout is what put him in a different category.
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,409
So TB
Are you saying we are wasting our time putting in for a Dall in Alaska? I heard from a very reputable guide that the sheep are in real trouble up there. He also mentioned that you need to be very careful about who you hire to guide you. What is your take for us lower 48ers? NWT or Yukon perhaps? $$$$???
Are you saying we are wasting our time putting in for a Dall in Alaska? I heard from a very reputable guide that the sheep are in real trouble up there. He also mentioned that you need to be very careful about who you hire to guide you. What is your take for us lower 48ers? NWT or Yukon perhaps? $$$$???
T
TBinKodiak
Guest
Ed,
I completely agree that mass should be stated along with length. You have 8 mass measurements and only 2 length measurements. As for people that draw and don't hunt, I didn't include them in those success percentages. I also didn't want it to sound like I think residents are better sheep hunters. What I meant was those draws are there because it's cheap and fairly easy to access. I'm also sure the average non-resident is in better shape than the average resident, if I dropped $10-12K on a hunt I'd be sure I was in tip top shape. Then again two guys packing two sheep and all their gear makes it pretty brutal too. I think people looking at going sheep hunting should automatically be in good shape, that should just go without saying. The one thing I think people forget is a lot of time the difference between success and failure is mental toughness. The ability to tell your body that this is what's going to happen and do it. (Although the older I get the more my body tells my mind that the pain in my knees for weeks afterward isn't worth it)
Congrats again on a dandy ram!
Mark,
I'm not saying you shouldn't put in for the draws. I was trying to say why put in for draw areas year after year, at $100 per year, when you could just go in an open area and probably have a much better chance of success. Basically a lot of those draw hunts are sucker bets. Look at the two draw hunts on the Kenai, they are less than 1% odds of drawing and most years no rams are even taken out of those areas. Tok is a good draw and hunt, 3% chance with around 50% success. DS139 isn't a bad draw either and obviously Ed shows that there are some brutes in there.
There are some good guides out there and there are certainly some bad operations too. The NWT or Yukon would be great, but I think its another $6-8K. If you have it to spend that may be the best bet, and you'd probably have the whole area to yourself. I think most of our herds are stable, I doubt we'll see the numbers they had back in the 80s unless there is a considerable wolf die off and/or a number of favorable winters.
TB
I completely agree that mass should be stated along with length. You have 8 mass measurements and only 2 length measurements. As for people that draw and don't hunt, I didn't include them in those success percentages. I also didn't want it to sound like I think residents are better sheep hunters. What I meant was those draws are there because it's cheap and fairly easy to access. I'm also sure the average non-resident is in better shape than the average resident, if I dropped $10-12K on a hunt I'd be sure I was in tip top shape. Then again two guys packing two sheep and all their gear makes it pretty brutal too. I think people looking at going sheep hunting should automatically be in good shape, that should just go without saying. The one thing I think people forget is a lot of time the difference between success and failure is mental toughness. The ability to tell your body that this is what's going to happen and do it. (Although the older I get the more my body tells my mind that the pain in my knees for weeks afterward isn't worth it)
Congrats again on a dandy ram!
Mark,
I'm not saying you shouldn't put in for the draws. I was trying to say why put in for draw areas year after year, at $100 per year, when you could just go in an open area and probably have a much better chance of success. Basically a lot of those draw hunts are sucker bets. Look at the two draw hunts on the Kenai, they are less than 1% odds of drawing and most years no rams are even taken out of those areas. Tok is a good draw and hunt, 3% chance with around 50% success. DS139 isn't a bad draw either and obviously Ed shows that there are some brutes in there.
There are some good guides out there and there are certainly some bad operations too. The NWT or Yukon would be great, but I think its another $6-8K. If you have it to spend that may be the best bet, and you'd probably have the whole area to yourself. I think most of our herds are stable, I doubt we'll see the numbers they had back in the 80s unless there is a considerable wolf die off and/or a number of favorable winters.
TB
TB,
Thanks for the input. I did not realize the odds of harvesting a sheep were so low. I had been led to believe that it was in the neighborhood of 80%+. Obviously, it was the outfitter blowing smoke trying to get my money. I will keep applying (and doing better research), but I doubt I will be able to afford another hunt. Also, I am 52. I felt I was in adequate shape for the hunt, but sheep hunting is a younger man's pursuit. Time is working against me. Maybe the third time will be the charm.
Mark
Thanks for the input. I did not realize the odds of harvesting a sheep were so low. I had been led to believe that it was in the neighborhood of 80%+. Obviously, it was the outfitter blowing smoke trying to get my money. I will keep applying (and doing better research), but I doubt I will be able to afford another hunt. Also, I am 52. I felt I was in adequate shape for the hunt, but sheep hunting is a younger man's pursuit. Time is working against me. Maybe the third time will be the charm.
Mark
