90/10 split for elk

BuzzH

BuzzH

Long Time Member
Messages
6,374
LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-14 AT 02:20PM (MST)[p]Since topgun likes to run his mouth...

***Didn't say that at all, but it's a big chunk of their "life support" that would need to be replaced and you dang well know it! That's why all the discussion on how it could be done is still ongoing, as you mentioned!

Here is another great example of why NR's need to carefully think about what they post.

I was going to keep this one under wraps, as I like to see NR's keep as much opportunity as possible. But, since topgun cant shut up...

What do Residents think about a 90-10 split on type-1 elk tags?

There is an EASY way to do it, without losing a single penny of NR elk license fees.

The current split is 84-16, with the balance of NR type-1 tags making up the general tags. The total number of type-1 tags is capped at 7200.

What I propose is reduce NR type-1 elk in limited quotas areas reduced to 10%. Since there is high demand for the general tags, the additional 6% that NR's wouldn't get in LQ tags, could just be made up with adding general tags to get to 7200.

There would still be 7200 type-1 tags available to NR's, just less for the better LQ areas and more in the general.

Also, since WY hunters are enjoying 40%+ success on general tags, the NR demand for general tags exceeds supply by a bunch.

There would be ZERO revenue loss and more opportunity for NR's who want to hunt elk more often in general units. This one would likely also pass if pursued.

It would also give Residents more opportunity to hunt the better LQ areas more often. Which is exactly the way it should be.

Thoughts?

P.S. Topgun, still want to run your mouth some more?
 
Buzzkill,

Please, please don't scare us like this before Christmas. We know you run Wyoming fish and game so just let us have a good Xmas. I will ask Santa to get you some new dentures and some boots with bigger heels so you will be able to look the elves in the eyes.

We are waiting for a response on the late season elk thread, but we are not holding our breath. Just because you post every kill you make on here, doesn't male the great messiah, please go have lunch with the Governor and leave MM alone!

Rich
 
Start another topic, or stay on this one. This topic is geared more toward residents that want a better chance to draw lq elk tags. Also for nrs who would like to hunt general areas more often.
 
I'm game but why stop there. How about deer and antelope too? I suspect you won't get very many complaints from most residents.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-14 AT 03:53PM (MST)[p]I vote for pref/bonus pt system for Wyo residents so they can draw limited tags more often. Leave NR limited tags, system, and percentages exactly how they are! Merry Christmas and Happy New Year Buzz!
 
I don't like the idea at all. This will just put more pressure on general areas for residents. The gens are one of the best things going for Wyoming. Having the backup, or just a persons go to area, if you don't draw a LQ tag is what makes Wyo so great. I don't think the extra res LQ tags will be significant enough to dramatically change draw odds, plus the number of hunters in the LQ areas will stay the same and therefore not make any difference on the crowds. Everyone's fall back after not drawing a LE tag will simply be more crowded.

We all know the two areas these 7200 extra NR gen hunters are going to hunt. From the perspective of a resident that loves the gen areas in Wyoming and simply thinks the LQ areas are the gravy on the potatoes I say bad idea. Don't add pressure to one of the best opportunity hunts around.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-14 AT 03:58PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-14 AT 03:55?PM (MST)

mulecreek,

Good post.

It wouldn't matter in the area I hunt general, its wilderness.

Completely understand if you're not hunting Wilderness.

Could address your concerns of NR's crowding into some areas, with NR's having to pick a region to hunt general elk, just like deer.

In fact, it probably makes sense to do that just to spread the current NR general elk tag pressure around a bit.

BTW, it wouldn't increase NR general tags by 7200, NR's are capped at 7200 total. That's general tags, plus LQ tags combined.

All that the 90-10 split would add to the general tag allocation is the number of LQ tags that they wouldn't draw (6%).
 
I believe you would see a slight decrease in $$ because the NR Special GEN is already 100% thru 3rd choice. Adding to the Special GEN wouldn't create additional revenue as they would drop to the regular GEN side with the excess we currently have from the 7,250 Quota Balance.
It would certainly up the draw odds for the regular GEN side.
 
jm77, yeah I think it would get much support in Central, SE, SW for sure.

If my math is right, it would increase the Resident allocation of LQ elk tags by app. 1800 per year. That's 1800 more Residents that get to hunt a LQ elk tag. That's pretty significant.

Mulecreek did bring up a good point though, and that is the increase in NR general tags would need to be addressed. I think that could be easily mitigated by making NR's pick a region of units to hunt with their general tags, just like we do for the general region Deer tags.

It would also be a great management tool for the WYGF to increase NR general tag allocations in some regions of the State where elk in general areas are increasing. Conversely, they could reduce general elk tags in regions that weren't doing as well.

I see a win-win-win for Residents, the WYGF from a management/hunter control aspect, and also the DIY NR that just wants to hunt general tags and hunt more often.

May also relieve some point creep on the lower point pools.
 
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-14
>AT 03:58?PM (MST)
>
>LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-14
>AT 03:55?PM (MST)
>
>mulecreek,
>
>Good post.
>
>It wouldn't matter in the area
>I hunt general, its wilderness.
>
>
>Completely understand if you're not hunting
>Wilderness.
>
>Could address your concerns of NR's
>crowding into some areas, with
>NR's having to pick a
>region to hunt general elk,
>just like deer.
>
>In fact, it probably makes sense
>to do that just to
>spread the current NR general
>elk tag pressure around a
>bit.
>
>BTW, it wouldn't increase NR general
>tags by 7200, NR's are
>capped at 7200 total. That's
>general tags, plus LQ tags
>combined.
>
>All that the 90-10 split would
>add to the general tag
>allocation is the number of
>LQ tags that they wouldn't
>draw (6%).

My bad on the 7200 gen tags. Regions would help spread the numbers. I still can't help but think that this does more harm than good. Some years I don't even bother with LQ apps for elk because I have a gen area that I enjoy hunting so much. I don't expect the rest of the state to absolutely agree but from a purely selfish view I don't want to see even one more person where I hunt. For me finding a place to have a quality elk hunt in Wyoming if I don't get a LQ tag is not a problem. I would hate to see that change.

I wonder what the average NR thinks about this. I see more and more NR's realizing that the Gen areas can be really good hunts. With the opportunity to hunt them more frequently than LQ units. May be a good tradeoff. However, if the 90/10 split is coming for M/S/B/G then it seems like pulling more NR LQ elk tags is going to be a huge kick in the nuts.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-21-14 AT 04:58PM (MST)[p]Mulecreek---I'll address this to you, rather than God, LOL! jm77 already discussed this with me in a PM today, so it was no surprise that Buzzy started these other Forum threads to rub it a little more on all the NRs!!! It's rather ironic though, since it seems I recall someone stated that most residents are already up to speed on all this stuff. Whatever he and his buddy, the Governor, decide to do to kick the NRs in the nuts, as you so aptly stated, will not keep me from hunting Wyoming every year, so he can go piss in his Cherrios!!! It's out of the NRs hands and we know it, so do what you gotta do!
 
I can kill an average bull other states most every year, even my home state. if I'm going to play the game and drive to WY I want it to be something special. like a type 1 tag. so, I'd rather leave things the way they are.

It's so nice to see hunters trying to screw each other over all the time. saves the anti-hunters and wolf lovers the effort .
 
This isnt screwing anyone. You still have a chance not to mention hunting in your own states and others. Whats the problem???
 
Buzz,

I will keep it on topic. I could give a crap if they change the rules. Yes, I hunt in WY, i have max elk points and 7 antelope points. But it will not be the end of the world if WY changes the system. It's happened in Idaho, Oregon, New Mexico and Montana and I still will hunt when and where I can. I guess that I look at it differently. I have told ODFW several times the treatment of NR's is going to come to roost when everyone gets there tags and leave the system. It should not always be about "me". That's what is wrong with the world today, me, me, me.

Rich
 
Yep, there are a few NR's that have that me, me, me attitude, that's for sure.

Exactly why changes happen.
 
There are residents and non residents alike who don't have the best interest of the wildlife they hunt. I am more concerned about the health of WYs mule deer herd than whether I draw another tag or not in my lifetime. I would rather focus of all of discussions about sustaining the wildlife for the next generation.

So if the 90/10 split benefits the deer herd than I am all for it. Are you all for it for the benefit to wildlife, or to get more tags?

Rich
 
The best thing that could be done for the western Wyoming mule deer herds is a 90/10 split R&NR... turned too limited quota as well as reduce the total hunter numbers by 40 percent. Lost in O that would IMO insure the next generation would get to enjoy what we have right now!!!
 
Rich,

Its hardly a secret that Residents have the most flesh in the game in regard to proper Wildlife Management.

Most NR's don't participate in scoping meetings, sit on various committees, work on collaborative efforts to enhance wildlife, work on access, hands on projects, serve on local wildlife organizations boards, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

That's all primarily done by Residents.

IMO, those that do the most work, deserve the most in return.

So, yes, I'm looking out for those that look out the most for Wyomings Wildlife...that being the Residents.
 
The bucks don't care if he is shot by a res or noon-res, he is just as dead. Reducing the region tags and moving to control harvest is extremely important. But hasn't that been met with resistance from residents? Reducing the overall number of tags is the real issue, not who gets the tags.

Rich
 
Buzz,

Flesh in the game as living in the same state? I am guessing WY is just like OR in that there are very, very few that step up to the plate when it comes to skin in the game. NRs do have skin in the game in WY because of the revenue stream. How much do NRs contribute to the budget of the Division? I don't know the numbers but guessing its significant.

So, if I use your logic, most residents have more skin in the game when it comes to WY wildlife. I will tell you, I think your wrong. I give quite a bit to WY when it comes to WY conservation groups. I can't give time due to the distance so I donate.

How many here remember when the Gunnison Basin die-off happened in CO. They took mine and many other donations were from folks on here that have no skin in the game.

Your right other states have done the same thing, doesn't make it right. You can't tell who is invested in wildlife issues just because of the state you live in.

Rich
 
Rich,

Cutting a check is no big deal, I do it all the time in a lot of Western States.

I don't see many NR's of Wyoming attending GF commission meetings. I don't recall seeing a single NR at the multiple mule deer initiative meetings. Don't recall seeing a single NR at a committee hearing either. Don't see many NR's attending work days to improve habitat, sign road for AccessYes, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I advertised a work day on this site a few years ago, to help improve big-game habitat, got one guy from Cheyenne to attend. Didn't get a single cent from NR's and not one NR showed up.

Not sure about your time, but mine is pretty valuable.

You can fool the fans, but not the players.

Wyoming Residents do the heavy lifting for Wildlife and Wildlife related issues here...that's a fact.
 
>Rich,
>
>Cutting a check is no big
>deal, I do it all
>the time in a lot
>of Western States.
>
>I don't see many NR's of
>Wyoming attending GF commission meetings.
>I don't recall seeing a
>single NR at the multiple
>mule deer initiative meetings. Don't
>recall seeing a single NR
>at a committee hearing either.
>Don't see many NR's attending
>work days to improve habitat,
>sign road for AccessYes, etc.
>etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
>etc. etc. etc.
>
>I advertised a work day on
>this site a few years
>ago, to help improve big-game
>habitat, got one guy from
>Cheyenne to attend. Didn't get
>a single cent from NR's
>and not one NR showed
>up.
>
>Not sure about your time, but
>mine is pretty valuable.
>
>You can fool the fans, but
>not the players.
>
>Wyoming Residents do the heavy lifting
>for Wildlife and Wildlife related
>issues here...that's a fact.
That's some funny B.S. right their, if we all showed up you couldn't run your mouth, why should I show up I'm paying a heck a lot more than the resident and don't mind it just as long their is some one that can make rational decisions.
 
Next time you attend a Wyoming related wildlife meeting...which will be your first, look me up.

Odds are very good I'll be there.
 
Buzz, That one Resident that showed up to help was the skin in the game. You made my point for me. By watching your posts it's clear that I will not make my point with you, but I'm hoping other folks listen with an open mind. Wasn't the Division having a financial crisis?

All state F&W agencies across the west are struggling with their budgets. It is not unique to WY and there are a lot of reasons for this that I will not get into in this forum. I do know that a reduction in non resident fees that are not made up with corresponding resident increases will affect the G&F budget substantially.

There are folks on this forum that actually do the jobs that you insist they know nothing about. It could also be plausible that even a NR from Oregon is in tune with conversations across the west as it relates to F&W budgets, just maybe?

Rich
 
Rich,

Pay attention to some of the posts by jm77 regarding the budget.

The 90/10 split will not cost the department squat with type-1 elk, moose, sheep, goat and bison...its been pointed out, multiple times.

Argue all you want, its going to pass for msgbgb...
 
jims---Do you think BuzzH will ever answer your question on the other three species? Maybe we should start a pool of yes or no at $5 a guess and all the money can go to the G&F Access Yes Program!
 
Buzz.

What do you mean by squat? It has to be more than $0. What is the exact number? Remember to add in the loss in PP money? I guess it is few full time jobs, who cares about that. Now take the 10% to the other species, what does that cost, how many jobs are we talking? Don't forget the huge drop in PA fees for those as well.

You might be more productive if you took all of your energy to try and get non-residents to support local groups to help wildlife mgmt projects that then could increase tags.

You getting up on your high horse and trying to shove it down non-residents throats might do more harm then good, it is completely turning me off to Wyoming and I love my time there. When it goes to 10% I may be out or I guess at best only there 25% of the time.
 
>Flopgun,
>
>When are you and jims going
>to stick to the topics
>or start your own threads?
>

When you apologize to Michael for doing the same thing!!! Now go answer his question that you're ducking for obvious reasons!
 
Outfitters and big money ranches own Wyoming, their influence will be too strong to overcome.....despite the best efforts of a man of BuzzH's ability to win hearts, influence people, and charm the pants off legislators. I wish him luck in his endeavors though, a man as bitter as him has to get the venom out somehow.
 
>Buzzkill,
>
>Please, please don't scare us like
>this before Christmas. We know
>you run Wyoming fish and
>game so just let us
>have a good Xmas. I
>will ask Santa to get
>you some new dentures and
>some boots with bigger heels
>so you will be able
>to look the elves in
>the eyes.
>
>We are waiting for a response
>on the late season elk
>thread, but we are not
>holding our breath. Just because
>you post every kill you
>make on here, doesn't male
>the great messiah, please go
>have lunch with the Governor
>and leave MM alone!
>
>Rich


I'm in on this message to Buzzard.
 
I have 0 PP for pronghorn. Anyone with max points want to lend a brother a hand?:)

Eel

It's written in the good Book that we'll never be asked to take more than we can. Sounds like a good plan, so bring it on!
 
>I have 0 PP for pronghorn.
>Anyone with max points want
>to lend a brother a
>hand?:)
>
>Eel
>
>It's written in the good Book
>that we'll never be asked
>to take more than we
>can. Sounds like a good
>plan, so bring it on!
>
>
>
Eel I thought you already hunted this year for antelope, geez save some for the rest of us and Buzz.
 
>There are residents and non residents
>alike who don't have the
>best interest of the wildlife
>they hunt. I am
>more concerned about the health
>of WYs mule deer herd
>than whether I draw another
>tag or not in my
>lifetime. I would rather focus
>of all of discussions about
>sustaining the wildlife for the
>next generation.
>
>So if the 90/10 split benefits
>the deer herd than I
>am all for it. Are
>you all for it for
>the benefit to wildlife, or
>to get more tags?
>
>Rich


^^^^^^ YES


"In the breast of every meat hunter there beats the heart of a secret, frustrated trophy hunter."
 
To those of you who say youll stop hunting wyoming if this passes, go ahead! Theres plenty of other people that will apply and get the tags. It wont hurt Wyoming.
 
>To those of you who say
>youll stop hunting wyoming if
>this passes, go ahead! Theres
>plenty of other people that
>will apply and get the
>tags. It wont hurt Wyoming.
>
I'm not hunting Wyoming I'm buying points not to shoot piss bucks and bulls either.
 
OK I've spent about an hour reading through the two or three threads on this topic.

As a resident that would love to someday draw a M S G B, I really like the idea of the 90/10 split. I don't know if I will ever be able to draw, even if it is changed. I have a doubt that residents will be able to hunt twice or three times per species.

As far as the elk and deer, I don't think it is a good idea to have the 90/10 split. Not because the state will lose money or residents/non-residents are getting screwed, but because I don't like the increased pressure on general areas. If we could find a way to decrease the pressure, I may change my mind on this.

Antelope tags don't really matter as everything is draw anyways. Correct me if I'm wrong, but leftover tags get put into the NR draw anyways?

I don't want to screw anyone (or kick anyone's nutts), there should be some option for NR to get refunds, or some compensation for years without having the rug pulled out. Do I know what that option should be? Sadly no. But would like to hear positive suggestions not just people being azzhats.

One thing that I hope all of you look at also, this could lead to the Money Tags, down the road. I know there has been talk about the G&F being funded until 2019, and its being taken care of by the Raffle, but they WILL be in a buget shortfall again.

We all know the WYGF is so money hungery that they will pretty much sell their souls. So be warned. You will want to read every word of this law to see what stupid crap will be included also.

People wanted to boycott Colorado for thier gun laws, but we all saw how many actually did it.

For those NR that say they won't hunt here anymore. OK, sorry you don't want to hunt here anymore. There will be someone to take your place. Just like the Colorado boycott.

py
 
I have to agree with what PY said about boycotts.

I'll be disappointed with any NR quota reduction but I'm not stupid enough to boycott Wyoming over a tag reduction.

There will be a way to continue hunting but it's just going to get tougher and more complicated.

It appears like the 10 NR cap on SMGB is just the beginning. It's like anything else, if someone can have it for themselves, why not pull it from the NR?

Good luck to everyone through the application season and Merry Christmas!

Zeke
 
Keep it the way it is!! Let's spend our time trying to get other states to increase non resident quotas instead of spending our time trying to screw the non residents over!
 
Earlier in the thread when Buzz talked about having a work day I'm the one guy from MM forum that showed up and this is the skin in the game he's talking about.
4652mark_deb_visit_may_2014_027.jpg


We worked for an entire day building buck and rail fence to eliminate illegally created user roads that are all over the west, some created by locals some by NR.

The point of the whole thing is the G&F doesn't maintain or do the work to eliminate these roads to protect the spring and winter range for the wildlife we love to chase, in the National Forest the USFS does and their not getting the money from the big NR tag price.

Without volunteer work days these area's would continue to get over run by motorized traffic, so the tag money, the motel, the restaurant meal none of that goes to maintain the habitat that houses all the wildlife we so love to chase.

Do you as a NR pay a good price and inject some money into the local economy yes, but were pouring hours and hours on nights and weekends to do fundraiser to buy supplies and materials to maintain and improve the habitat on are own time because we don't want to see are back yard destroyed.

Anybody interested in helping out and putting some real skin in the game?
 
godeep---Kudos to you for your work! However, if I understand it right, in one sentence of a post on this thread BuzzH was bragging about all the skin the residents have doing that kind of work. Then in the same post he said the two of you were the only ones who showed up for that project. True or false on just the two of you being there?
 
>godeep---Kudos to you for your work!
> However, if I understand
>it right, in one sentence
>of a post on this
>thread BuzzH was bragging about
>all the skin the residents
>have doing that kind of
>work. Then in the
>same post he said the
>two of you were the
>only ones who showed up
>for that project. True
>or false on just the
>two of you being there?
>


Topgun I guess that's not how I read it. It reads to me that he advertised the work day on this website and only one guy showed up that seen it from this website, which was a resident.

Want to help out Topgun? or is this website and these threads just a bunch of grown up teenagers trash talking?

If anyone wants to help let me know.
 
Thank you Trevor for all you've done for wildlife. I do think that many NR on here might help if they lived closer. Pole mtn for me is a long drive, but I have my hands full around Casper dealing with access issues( many NR hunt on public land we saved) and wildlife related issues.

I do try to get to Cheyenne when issues arise during the Legislative session.
 
Where does a non-resident donate to help these causes? I think if you went that route to try and get monetary support from non-resident than non-residents could really help those that live close enough to do the grunt work. It is just not feasible for non-residents that live far away. I commend your hard work, I noticed on my elk hunt last year a lot of these signs up everywhere and there was no abuse whatsover that I saw. I commend you and Buzz for working on these very important range issues.
 
>Thank you Trevor for all you've
>done for wildlife. I do
>think that many NR on
>here might help if they
>lived closer. Pole mtn for
>me is a long drive,
>but I have my hands
>full around Casper dealing with
>access issues( many NR hunt
>on public land we saved)
>and wildlife related issues.
>
>I do try to get to
>Cheyenne when issues arise during
>the Legislative session.


JM77
Your right many would help, many would maybe help more than what were even able to do. It's very understandable that someone doesn't jump in there truck and drive 300, or even 1,000 miles to come help.

The simple point I was trying to make was there is so much more going on behind the scenes that you don't see when your only here for your typical week hunt, and simply buying a tag really in the end doesn't do a lot in the big scheme of things.
 
>Where does a non-resident donate to
>help these causes? I
>think if you went that
>route to try and get
>monetary support from non-resident than
>non-residents could really help those
>that live close enough to
>do the grunt work.
>It is just not feasible
>for non-residents that live far
>away. I commend your
>hard work, I noticed on
>my elk hunt last year
>a lot of these signs
>up everywhere and there was
>no abuse whatsover that I
>saw. I commend you
>and Buzz for working on
>these very important range issues.
>


The group I'm part of and work with here in Wyoming is the Wyoming chapter of Backcountry Hunters and Anglers.
I'm the state chapter treasure so if you would like to make a monetary donation pm me and I'll give you the information to write out a check or provide a new item to raffle.

You can find out more about BHA on their website at http://www.backcountryhunters.org/
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-22-14 AT 10:21PM (MST)[p]>>godeep---Kudos to you for your work!
>> However, if I understand
>>it right, in one sentence
>>of a post on this
>>thread BuzzH was bragging about
>>all the skin the residents
>>have doing that kind of
>>work. Then in the
>>same post he said the
>>two of you were the
>>only ones who showed up
>>for that project. True
>>or false on just the
>>two of you being there?
>>
>
>
>Topgun I guess that's not how
>I read it. It reads
>to me that he advertised
>the work day on this
>website and only one guy
>showed up that seen it
>from this website, which was
>a resident.
>
>Want to help out Topgun? or
>is this website and these
>threads just a bunch of
>grown up teenagers trash talking?
>
>
>If anyone wants to help let
>me know.


Thanks for the quick reply and, yes, I see now it's just on this site he was talking about. I'd also be more than happy to get my hands dirty if there is anything I can do out there to get involved. I'm out in Wyoming most years from the middle of September through October and could more than take a few days then if someone would let me know when and where. Of course, being over 1200 miles from Wyoming I couldn't do it at other times of the year. Just give me a heads up and I'll go anywhere in the state while I'm out there in the Fall though. That's the least I can do for all that Wyoming has given me over the last 20+ years! I'm also probably going to join the group after the first of the year, as it looks like they are now really in the forefront on lot of important things! Kudos again for the work any of you do, as I know we don't see it from afar and need little jolts like this to let us know what's happening!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-14 AT 07:38PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Dec-23-14 AT 07:36?PM (MST)

Also remember the ones that donate that cant make it when they live states away.The people who donate to RMEF, local NRA or even the donation you can make after applying for a tag. So many options.

Also one can simply clean trails. I always carry a saw while horn hunting season hits. most times I get more time in cutting logs then looking for bone.

We use to help the Shoshone Backcountry Horseman club clean and rebuild miles of trail and build corrals at trailheads but after some issues we decided to drop the club. But it still felt great to help on the trails. it didn't feel good when a outfitter couldn't even help cut one log but yet act like they own the trail.

Or even the guys that help go count animals like moose that they usually cant count from a plane..



Here is an example back in 2011 when I was scouting for mountain goats for my upcoming hunt. I never once seen the outfitter cut one log other than the chainsaw they had to cut firewood for main camp.. And the guides must rode that trail ten times more than I did... And I don't know what the rules are for a chainsaw in the wilderness

270835_1839441347273_39765_n_zpsf4bcbde8.jpg
 
Great post Michael and chainsaws are a motorized piece of equipment that are definitely not allowed in wilderness areas!
 
Just a point of correction but...Last year in the NR special GEN elk drawing you couldnt draw a tag as 2nd or 3rd choice. The entire quota went to 1st choice applicants. First time this has happened. Year prior you could get a NR Gen elk tag in the special drawing as 2nd or 3rd choice.

>I believe you would see a
>slight decrease in $$ because
>the NR Special GEN is
>already 100% thru 3rd choice.
>Adding to the Special GEN
>wouldn't create additional revenue as
>they would drop to the
>regular GEN side with the
>excess we currently have from
>the 7,250 Quota Balance.
>It would certainly up the draw
>odds for the regular GEN
>side.
 
>Just a point of correction but...Last
>year in the NR special
>GEN elk drawing you couldnt
>draw a tag as 2nd
>or 3rd choice. The entire
>quota went to 1st choice
>applicants. First time this has
>happened. Year prior you could
>get a NR Gen elk
>tag in the special drawing
>as 2nd or 3rd choice.



Sorry, but WB is correct in his statement. I don't know why you're saying that, but all the Special Draw applicants that put General as a second choice certainly did get their tag!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-14 AT 04:06PM (MST)[p]Well the WY F&G drawing odds posted directly on their website must be incorrect then! See here : http://gf.state.wy.us/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/DRAW_ELK_RD_NONRESSP_20140005372.pdf

Quota for 2014 NR elk special was 386 tags available in randon draw. There were 391 1st choice applicants. So 5 of the 1st choice applicants did not get tags, and NO 2nd or 3rd choice applicant got tags. Am I missing something? Do you have other info to back up that statement?

In prior years there were plenty of tags to fullfil the 1st choice applicant AND the 2nd and 3rd choice applicants, AND then the surplus went to the "regular" draw (less expensive)(from my undertanding). Seems like the demand has increased as of the 2014 draw in relation to number of gen tag available for NRs.

>>Just a point of correction but...Last
>>year in the NR special
>>GEN elk drawing you couldnt
>>draw a tag as 2nd
>>or 3rd choice. The entire
>>quota went to 1st choice
>>applicants. First time this has
>>happened. Year prior you could
>>get a NR Gen elk
>>tag in the special drawing
>>as 2nd or 3rd choice.
>
>
>
>Sorry, but WB is correct in
>his statement. I don't
>know why you're saying that,
>but all the Special Draw
>applicants that put General as
>a second choice certainly did
>get their tag!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-14 AT 04:22PM (MST)[p]>Well the WY F&G drawing odds
>posted directly on their website
>must be incorrect then! See
>here : http://gf.state.wy.us/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/DRAW_ELK_RD_NONRESSP_20140005372.pdf
>
>Quota for 2014 NR elk special
>was 386 tags available in
>randon draw. There were 391
>1st choice applicants. So 5
>of the 1st choice applicants
>did not get tags, and
>NO 2nd or 3rd choice
>applicant got tags. Am I
>missing something? Do you have
>other info to back up
>that statement?
>
>
>>>Just a point of correction but...Last
>>>year in the NR special
>>>GEN elk drawing you couldnt
>>>draw a tag as 2nd
>>>or 3rd choice. The entire
>>>quota went to 1st choice
>>>applicants. First time this has
>>>happened. Year prior you could
>>>get a NR Gen elk
>>>tag in the special drawing
>>>as 2nd or 3rd choice.
>>
>>
>>
>>Sorry, but WB is correct in
>>his statement. I don't
>>know why you're saying that,
>>but all the Special Draw
>>applicants that put General as
>>a second choice certainly did
>>get their tag!


Nope, it's not incorrect at all. It's just not a complete synopsis of all the licenses that were issued and the G&F stats are like that every year, such that you don't know without asking. Wyoming has a statute on the books that requires the G&F to issue a minimum of 7200 NR elk licenses and every year so far they have had enough tags left to issue them to all that have applied with the General tag as a second choice on their Special Draw application. Everyone every year so far that's done that has received a tag and sometimes there have even been enough to go to some of those that had it as a third choice.
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-14 AT 05:14PM (MST)[p]Topgun, you got something to back this up? I'm honestly interested because it will make a difference in how I apply for tags in 2015 with a friend. When I look at the drawing reports for 2014 it clearly shows that NO one drew special general elk in 2014 draw (based on posted quota number and applicant numbers). That was the first year that happened - if you look at previous year, yes the 2nd choice applicants drew special general elk tags. It was that way forever....But in 2014 that changed according to what they published. If what you are saying about the minimum 7200 NR elk tags is correct, why wouldnt the draw reports clearly indicate the correct quota for the NR elk general tags? I'd love to draw 2nd choice in 2015 but from the info I have I wont be able to do it. Again, if you have some info please provide it, or send me a PM.

>LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-14
>AT 04:22?PM (MST)
>
>>Well the WY F&G drawing odds
>>posted directly on their website
>>must be incorrect then! See
>>here : http://gf.state.wy.us/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/DRAW_ELK_RD_NONRESSP_20140005372.pdf
>>
>>Quota for 2014 NR elk special
>>was 386 tags available in
>>randon draw. There were 391
>>1st choice applicants. So 5
>>of the 1st choice applicants
>>did not get tags, and
>>NO 2nd or 3rd choice
>>applicant got tags. Am I
>>missing something? Do you have
>>other info to back up
>>that statement?
>>
>>
>>>>Just a point of correction but...Last
>>>>year in the NR special
>>>>GEN elk drawing you couldnt
>>>>draw a tag as 2nd
>>>>or 3rd choice. The entire
>>>>quota went to 1st choice
>>>>applicants. First time this has
>>>>happened. Year prior you could
>>>>get a NR Gen elk
>>>>tag in the special drawing
>>>>as 2nd or 3rd choice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Sorry, but WB is correct in
>>>his statement. I don't
>>>know why you're saying that,
>>>but all the Special Draw
>>>applicants that put General as
>>>a second choice certainly did
>>>get their tag!
>
>
>Nope, it's not incorrect at all.
> It's just not a
>complete synopsis of all the
>licenses that were issued and
>the G&F stats are like
>that every year, such that
>you don't know without asking.
> Wyoming has a statute
>on the books that requires
>the G&F to issue a
>minimum of 7200 NR elk
>licenses and every year so
>far they have had enough
>tags left to issue them
>to all that have applied
>with the General tag as
>a second choice on their
>Special Draw application. Everyone
>every year so far that's
>done that has received a
>tag and sometimes there have
>even been enough to go
>to some of those that
>had it as a third
>choice.
 
>Topgun, you got something to back
>this up? I'm honestly interested
>because it will make a
>difference in how I apply
>for tags in 2015 with
>a friend. When I look
>at the drawing reports for
>2014 it clearly shows that
>NO one drew special general
>elk in 2014 draw. That
>was the first year that
>happened - if you look
>at previous year, yes the
>2nd choice applicants drew special
>general elk tags. It was
>that way forever....But in 2014
>that changed according to what
>they published. I'd love to
>draw 2nd choice in 2015
>but from the info I
>have I wont be able
>to do it. Again, if
>you have some info please
>provide it, or send me
>a PM.
>
>>LAST EDITED ON Dec-24-14
>>AT 04:22?PM (MST)
>>
>>>Well the WY F&G drawing odds
>>>posted directly on their website
>>>must be incorrect then! See
>>>here : http://gf.state.wy.us/web2011/Departments/Hunting/pdfs/DRAW_ELK_RD_NONRESSP_20140005372.pdf
>>>
>>>Quota for 2014 NR elk special
>>>was 386 tags available in
>>>randon draw. There were 391
>>>1st choice applicants. So 5
>>>of the 1st choice applicants
>>>did not get tags, and
>>>NO 2nd or 3rd choice
>>>applicant got tags. Am I
>>>missing something? Do you have
>>>other info to back up
>>>that statement?
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Just a point of correction but...Last
>>>>>year in the NR special
>>>>>GEN elk drawing you couldnt
>>>>>draw a tag as 2nd
>>>>>or 3rd choice. The entire
>>>>>quota went to 1st choice
>>>>>applicants. First time this has
>>>>>happened. Year prior you could
>>>>>get a NR Gen elk
>>>>>tag in the special drawing
>>>>>as 2nd or 3rd choice.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Sorry, but WB is correct in
>>>>his statement. I don't
>>>>know why you're saying that,
>>>>but all the Special Draw
>>>>applicants that put General as
>>>>a second choice certainly did
>>>>get their tag!
>>
>>
>>Nope, it's not incorrect at all.
>> It's just not a
>>complete synopsis of all the
>>licenses that were issued and
>>the G&F stats are like
>>that every year, such that
>>you don't know without asking.
>> Wyoming has a statute
>>on the books that requires
>>the G&F to issue a
>>minimum of 7200 NR elk
>>licenses and every year so
>>far they have had enough
>>tags left to issue them
>>to all that have applied
>>with the General tag as
>>a second choice on their
>>Special Draw application. Everyone
>>every year so far that's
>>done that has received a
>>tag and sometimes there have
>>even been enough to go
>>to some of those that
>>had it as a third
>>choice.

PM sent and glad to help you out for your 2015 hunt!
 
Last posts on this subject awhile ago, Buzz H was hounding the residents for being so stingy with tags. How come the change of heart?

For the record, I live in Utah and am working alot with our lands here so you can enjoy them too! A 5 hour drive to Wyoming then a 5 hour drive back is not feasable for me to donate a day of work or attend a meating. I hardly have the time to hunt as much as I want to with babies to feed at home.

With how complicated things are getting in every state, I may be relagated to hunt only my own. Hope it doesn't come down to that.

I am also getting tired of this piss on the NR sentiment so the resident's odds of drawing a tag go up from 40% to 42%. I wish my state gave 20% of tags to the NR and wish other people in other states appreciated the NR as much as me.
 
>Rich,
>
>Its hardly a secret that Residents
>have the most flesh in
>the game in regard to
>proper Wildlife Management.
>
>Most NR's don't participate in scoping
>meetings, sit on various committees,
>work on collaborative efforts to
>enhance wildlife, work on access,
>hands on projects, serve on
>local wildlife organizations boards, etc.
>etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.
>
>
>That's all primarily done by Residents.
>
>
>IMO, those that do the most
>work, deserve the most in
>return.
>
>So, yes, I'm looking out for
>those that look out the
>most for Wyomings Wildlife...that being
>the Residents.
>
>

Those who pay the bills should not be screwed time and time again.

"Go hunt for meat at Walmart."
 
Great Idea! Other states offer much less opportunity to NR's than this proposal. I'm not for bashing NR's I just want the best for my own family and friends. Now let's talk about regulating people flying to find big mule deer bucks in the high country, too many big bucks getting killed... But really some hogs got killed last year;) .
 
>Great Idea! Other states offer much
>less opportunity to NR's than
>this proposal. I'm not for
>bashing NR's I just want
>the best for my own
>family and friends. Now let's
>talk about regulating people flying
>to find big mule deer
>bucks in the high country,
>too many big bucks getting
>killed... But really some hogs
>got killed last year;) .
>

Rambo

We are taking on the aircraft use for scouting issue after the first of the year. They're opening Chapter 2 of the regulation in 2015 and we hope to eliminate the use of any aircraft, including drones, from being used to locate or spot game animals for the purpose of hunting. We will need letters of support for this and hope to post this information here in Jan.

There is an expectation that outfitters may fight this, but we will see.

Jeff
 
>>Great Idea! Other states offer much
>>less opportunity to NR's than
>>this proposal. I'm not for
>>bashing NR's I just want
>>the best for my own
>>family and friends. Now let's
>>talk about regulating people flying
>>to find big mule deer
>>bucks in the high country,
>>too many big bucks getting
>>killed... But really some hogs
>>got killed last year;) .
>>
>
>Rambo
>
>We are taking on the aircraft
>use for scouting issue after
>the first of the year.
>They're opening Chapter 2 of
>the regulation in 2015 and
>we hope to eliminate the
>use of any aircraft, including
>drones, from being used to
>locate or spot game animals
>for the purpose of hunting.
>We will need letters of
>support for this and hope
>to post this information here
>in Jan.
>
>There is an expectation that outfitters
>may fight this, but we
>will see.
>
>Jeff

Jeff: How in the world would it ever be enforced when it seems it's really one of those areas that require the honor system? I could see maybe the drone issue where a person isn't actually up having fun just for the flying aspect of it. To go further than it already is in the books may be quite a stretch with air space being free as long as they abide by FAA requirements. I have no idea even if we know what they may be doing how you could stop it. Have you worked up anything that you could share with us as to how it would be possible to curb it? I'm looking at it similar to these ranchers that are driving their vehicles around their pastures harassing elk like just happened recently up near TenSleep, but can get away with it most of the time by just saying they were just checking their irrigation system, stock tanks, etc. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated because I know there are many claims that Robb Wiley's clients kill so many big deer down there every year because of that type of scouting up in the high country. If that's the case, I'm sure there is a lot more of it going on than we may realize. Thanks!
 
LAST EDITED ON Dec-25-14 AT 12:25PM (MST)[p]Thanks Harry Reed. I say call your senators to get this changed.
COMMERCE CLAUSE
State conservation agencies have long eyed the commerce clause nervously because it threatens their traditional management authority to limit the number of licenses they sell to out-of-state hunters and to charge nonresidents more for licenses than residents. (On the other hand, some argue that the commerce clause helps keep overly protective states in check and ensures that public resources are managed fairly for all American citizens.)
In 1978, the Supreme Court favored the states when it ruled that Montana could charge nonresident elk hunters higher fees than residents. Montana argued in Baldwin v. Fish and Game Commission that nonresidents require more enforcement effort (because they don't know the landscape as well) and that residents pay through taxes for infrastructure such as roads, fire control, and search-and-rescue efforts that nonresidents aren't funding.
The court found support for its conclusion because it viewed hunting as a recreational privilege and not a fundamental right as granted by the Constitution. But the court also gave warning that the disparity between resident and nonresident hunting and fishing fees could not be unreasonably high.
State regulatory authority over wildlife was challenged recently in an Arizona case called Conservation Force v. Manning. In 2004, the court ruled that Arizona?s system of limiting the number of nonresident elk and deer licenses discriminated against interstate commerce and therefore was unconstitutional.
Because the nonresident hunters who sued the state?s wildlife agency planned to sell elk hides and antlers in another state, the court determined that the products were ?articles of commerce? covered by the commerce clause.
The court's decision sent shock waves through state conservation agencies. After the ruling, the lead plaintiff and his attorney met with directors of several other state conservation departments, including Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks, and threatened to sue. So far, no suit has been brought against Montana, but the parties have filed suit against three other states.
Recently, state conservation agencies got relief in the form of a bill introduced by Nevada senator Henry Reid at the urging of the International Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies. The Reaffirmation of State Regulation of Resident and Nonresident Hunting and Fishing Act of 2005, which was passed by Congress and signed into law this year, says states may differentiate between residents and nonresidents when setting seasons, allocating permits, and pricing licenses.
Montana and other states cheered passage of the bill. However the federal law may open up a new can of worms by emboldening some groups or states to consider further restrictions on nonresidents. At least one national hunting group has announced it considers the new federal legislation unfair to nonresidents.
Because Congress and the courts are in two separate branches of government, the judiciary isn't bound to uphold the new legislation. But in recent court cases it has, and for the time being, the ?Reid Law? seems to have effectively countered the commerce clause strategy used to weaken states? authority to regulate wildlife within their borders. Here's the link http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/articles/2005/WhoCallsShots.htm
 

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