8 years later

hornkiller · Dec 4, 2011

I grabbed this from a thread on here from 2004.
Still nothing has changed!

"I disagree with you Founder,
Thats a pretty big accusation about me not doing a thing and just sitting at home doing nothing when you don't even know who your talking to. How do you know I'm doing nothing? SFW have been working on the habitat now for 10+ years and my question is Where is the improvement in our deer numbers? There isn't any improvement. More drastic measures need to be taken and I'm not going to sit here and explain it all over again. You go ahead and keep supporting an organization that doesn't represent us at all. That's why there is only 12,000 members statewide because they don't represent us and they have failed to accomplish what they said they were going to do. Deer numbers still suck after 10+ years. If drastic measures and proper management was put in place 10 years ago like it was suppose to be our deer numbers would be up drought or no drought. Buying up ground for winter range is great but if there are no deer to utilize it who really cares! There is plenty of winter ground that I know of throughout the state that used to have thousands of deer utilizing it and today your lucky to see one deer. I'll tell you what I'm tired of, is guys like you continueing to tell us how great you all are and all the things that your doing to improve are deer herd when in reality it's worse than when you first started. You mentioned someday you want increased opportunity and quality for yourselves. I'll repeat SOMEDAY. That someday is long over due. 10+ years of pruning trees on winter grounds surely isn't bringing our deer back. I know because I've been suckered into pruning the trees over the last 10 years with alot of false hopes. If the only answer we have is habitat then the deer are in deep trouble because that alone is not going to bring them back."

Don Couple ?'s What are some of the bigger projects S.f.w. has done for the deer heard in CENTRAL,UT?
Because i have been all over the last 8 years and still yet to see a project started nor finished by S.F.W. anywhere not just central,ut!

So you guys been going since 94 really open your mouth and lets hear what you really have done! No im not talking sheep in alaska or canada. I really havent seen a dam thing done by you guys and i know alot of guys are wondering the same thing.

Foreman4x4 · Dec 4, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Dec-04-11 AT 06:21PM (MST)[p]For SFW, it's all about the $$$$, and anyone who thinks they're looking out for Utah's wildlife and claims they're non-profit is up in the night! It chaps my azz every time I think about the number of permits the State gives them for the Sportman's Expo and where the money goes, which is mostly in their pockets!

You want to see something that will help the deer herds, make it so you can hang your deer tag on a cat if you choose!

Muley_73 · Dec 4, 2011

Who has done more in the last 8 years??? Will someone please let me know so I can donate my time and money to them.

Hornkiller, do you have some ideas that will help??? Or are you more comcerned with shittting in your hand and throwing it against the wall again??

Tikka · Dec 4, 2011

+2 Muley_73

You can definitely tell the season is over here comes the I hate the SFW posts again!!!!!!!!!

"And just what were these guys doing riding horses in an aspen thicket"
WhiskyMan

hornkiller · Dec 4, 2011

Really what have they done so i can go see with my own eyes?

Tikka · Dec 4, 2011

Horsecorn....er I mean hornkiller didn't you already get a free membership to Fullcurl Society out of Don yesterday?

And what have you done for Mule Deer in the last eight years?

"And just what were these guys doing riding horses in an aspen thicket"
WhiskyMan

SMELLYBUCK · Dec 4, 2011

Great post horn. SFW has pretended to know how to improve the herd. They have had the helm long enough to show they don't. Thanks for showing some history.

All the dollars they have siphoned have not resulted in one extra general deer tag. NOT 1!!! On the contrary, they have done everything in their power to take tags from the general public.

Their projects are a side show. The result is the public looses limited entry tags for SFW auctions. I can hold my tongue at that because it seemed like a "noble cause" but now that they have successfully campaigned against the general public hunt. I consider them in the same camp has anti hunters. In fact, trophy hunting is the only place anti hunters get any traction at all with the general public. Anti's certainly can't garner support any other way.

The DWR needs to focus their resources on identifying the problem. More units and fewer tags is a distraction to the real problem. Managing a healthy herd is what they are paid to do. If they can't figure it out with their education and allocated resources, then what are we hiring them for?

The only place we can go from here is to the governor. We will not get a listening ear from the DWR. They dare not shed themselves from the SFW purse. I wrote my first letter this week noting that I think the DWR is controlled by special interest trophy hunting groups. Big game hunting is no longer managed for the general public. It is an election year. We might get some results if enough of us write in.

littlejoe · Dec 4, 2011

Smellybuck and Hornkiller; what have you guys done to help the herd? If you are out there trying to do something that will help then by all means say what you want but if you are the type that just sits home and complians then go away and keep your opinion to yourself.

Why haven't you each started your own organization?

Do either of you support any organization? I sure don't see a perfect one out there that I agree with 100% of the time.

hornkiller · Dec 4, 2011

Tikka no i would not except a full curl membership!
Cause thats what S.F.W. has turned into SHEEP IN AK/CA!

I just want to know what they have done since 94 with the millions of dollers to improve the herds?
Let me guess branch out of state to get more big money ans say they are winning the fight?

The last 8 years i spend day after day on winter range shooting dogs and stopping idiots from chasing deer/elk on wheelers.
I think that has done more than what you money has done with s.f.w. to help the local herd out!!!

BrowningRage · Dec 5, 2011

Seems like everytime someone starts this line of talk- people start comin out sayin "Well, what do you do to help the herd?"

I thought our hunting licenses and permit fees were to help the herds..?? No..?? Because quite honestly, I don't have money right now to do any more than that each year. If I am expected to "do" more by giving my money to a special interest group like SFW in order to "do my part" to help the herd- then quite frankly, the sport has already gone to the rich...

Also, by not answering questions posed, it just makes SFW and it's members appear more arrogant and spiteful towards those asking the questions (people who often claim they are members). These types of exchanges turn a guy like me "off" to joining someday when I am "rich"...

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24

travishunter3006 · Dec 5, 2011

I don't think hornkiller needs to start an orginization to "do his part", nor does anyone else for that matter. The Problem many have is when thousands and even millions of dollars go 1. unaccounted for and 2 spent on things other than that which was displayed initially.

Really though, what has SFW done this year, I dont even want to know in the last 10 years, Just what have they done besides their banquets and spending money in Canada?

It was a big bodied 2 point. (this is my signature)

tailchasers · Dec 5, 2011

> Seems like everytime someone starts
>this line of talk- people
>start comin out sayin "Well,
>what do you do to
>help the herd?"
>
> I thought our hunting licenses
>and permit fees were to
>help the herds..?? No..?? Because
>quite honestly, I don't have
>money right now to do
>any more than that each
>year. If I am expected
>to "do" more by giving
>my money to a special
>interest group like SFW in
>order to "do my part"
>to help the herd- then
>quite frankly, the sport has
>already gone to the rich...
>
>
> Also, by not answering questions
>posed, it just makes SFW
>and it's members appear more
>arrogant and spiteful towards those
>asking the questions (people who
>often claim they are members).
>These types of exchanges turn
>a guy like me "off"
>to joining someday when I
>am "rich"...
>
>
>
>"Therefore, wo be unto him that
>is at ease in Zion!"
>2 Ne. 28: 24

Nice answer.

"Courage is being scared to death but saddling
up anyway."

SMELLYBUCK · Dec 6, 2011

Little Bro,

In the past 18 months, I've planted various brush test plots in Sevier County with the DWR. I've also been working with the DWR on getting some bitterbrush and other forbes planted on some private ground east of Brigham City. That is in the past 18 months and I expect to complete the project by the end of next year. I do this without the expectation of hunting all three hunts.

The reality is, I'm lucky to get out and hunt big game 3 or 4 days a year. I've made a decision that I'm not going to dedicate my life to big game hunting. I'm not going to start an organization. The most avid hunters are going to win that match. They are going to spend far more time and money than my conscience and resources will allow. I'm not going to dedicate my life to the cause so I can shoot a deer every few years, not even for a trophy one. I have more important things, and I bet you do too.

Regardless of all this, I am a citizen of Utah. I feel pushed out by trophy special interests. Their influence and power is out of control. I have a right and duty to complain. I have not benefited at all from all their agenda. It seems I have only been on the short end of the stick. I get a shorter season, smaller unit to hunt, and fewer opportunities to draw a general tag - all at their request and hopes of more inches per deer. I'm tired of making sacrifces for the endeavors of the trophy movement, particularly when then end result is a smaller herd. Trophy organizations have not grown the herd. They take a lot of limited entry tags and thow out a few bones to shut up the dogs. They successfully push for less general opportunity and then gloat about the success of their habitat. Explain that one to me.

I don't feel like I ask for much. I just want a flexible hunt where I can get out with friends and family for a few days without making coordinating phone calls all freakin year long. I'd like to draw a southern tag more than 25% of the time (1 out of the last four baby!) I'm willing to pitch in and help some. I'm tired of more and more restrictions with no payoff.

I feel like the trophy movement has made a concentrated effort on pushing people like me (the crowd) out in exchange for their spectaculat pursuits. I will complain. It would be wrong for me to sit back and smile.

hornkiller · Dec 6, 2011

Still waiting don!

isayNUNYA · Dec 6, 2011

Brownrage, the projects are all listed. Why does someone need to jump on MM and esplain it to every D-bag that brings it up. Furthermore why do you even care? You jerk offs have never spent a dime supporting ANY wildlife org.

littlejoe · Dec 6, 2011

Smellybuck. I appreciate your response.

I don't blame anyone for the state of the deer herd becuase in my mind there is not one sole factor, I don't blame the UT DWR or SFW or MDF, etc. I don't agree with everything they do either but in my mind they are trying to make a difference and therefore I support them.

I came to the realization a long time ago that the days of unlimited deer tags and a two week season is a thing of the past. I fully understand that my son will have to draw a deer tag and I am fine with that. I know he will be able to get an over the counter turkey tag as things currently are.

Everyone is different in what they want and what they expect. Some want opportunity opportunity opportunity. I am not one of those people, I will always take quality of opportunity 100 to 1. That is just me.

I am glad to see you have helped on projects in the past. Most people that want to have a dog in the fight have not done one darn thing to help out and expect the world.

The one thing that does disappoint me is that hunters as a whole are not organized and we fight amongst ourselves constantly. The Anti's are very well organized and have one purpose and unfortunately they get things done by being this way.

hangfire · Dec 6, 2011

>Really what have they done so
>i can go see with
>my own eyes?
>
>
>
>

http://www.sfw.net/your-money/

Bambistew · Dec 6, 2011

Didn't they get the wolves desisted?

SMELLYBUCK · Dec 7, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Dec-07-11 AT 07:15AM (MST)[p]I appreciate your response. We just have different preferences. Honestly, I would welcome your restrictions if the herd improved as a result. I just expected to have seen an improvement by now.

brymoore · Dec 7, 2011

>Didn't they get the wolves desisted?
>

Who is they?

BrowningRage · Dec 7, 2011

LAST EDITED ON Dec-07-11 AT 09:09AM (MST)[p] IsayNUNYA said- "Brownrage, the projects are all listed. Why does someone need to jump on MM and esplain it to every D-bag that brings it up. Furthermore why do you even care? You jerk offs have never spent a dime supporting ANY wildlife org."

Thank you for making me feel welcome in your organization... Just so I understand- I am both a D-Bag and a Jerk Off...??

And for doing what? Stating that I thought I was helping wildlife by buying tags and permits every year, despite being young, having a young family, and attending school...?? All on my hard earned dollars...??

If you don't want us young folks joining up, just say so- you don't have to call us names.

"Therefore, wo be unto him that is at ease in Zion!" 2 Ne. 28: 24