300 WBY "youth load" ?

H

hangingmeat

Guest
I'm asking for a friend- but is there such a thing?

he bought his 13 year old twins a 300 wby because it was a good deal and they will grow into it later.

Can he load some low recoil loads? even better, can he buy some factory bullets that are lower recoil?

He can do a muzzle break but wants to keep that as a last resort because of the noise.

they both used a 300 win mag for their first successful hunts last year, and shoot 12 gauge shotguns a lot and don't want to go the standard "264,280,7mm-08,etc" kid guns.

thanks for your input
 
I'm 33 and I never grew into my 300 wby..its just a vicious bastard.. dotn know of any reduced factory ammo for them. If he loads them of course he could load it down.Try a 130 grain barnes.
 
"...don't want to go the standard "264,280,7mm-08,etc" kid guns."

My "input" is: What a ignorant thing to say, i wouldn't answer your question on a bet! Since when are those cartridges mentioned only "kid guns"?

Someone obviously has a bad case of needbigmagnumitus!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
If your friend handloads, tell him to load cartridges at the min level. Other than that, they might be out of luck As far as I know, there isn't any reduced recoil loads. I know Remington makes reduced loads, but I'm not sure if a 300 WBY is a cartridge they offer in that line up.
 
Mass weight in the gun itself can help with the recoil and a mercury recoil suppressor can be put into the stock on some stocks. A Packmayer decelerator recoil pad or kickeze pad (sorbothane) will help. Loading light bullets can help because heavier bullets increase recoil. Then you can put a reactor recoil pad in their jacket and then you'll most likely still go with a muzzle break with that cartridge.

Before your done paying a gunsmith to do all this you may want to look into the most sensible solution to the issue and you'll have two guns instead of one that's just going to weigh more. Go down and buy the Kid a Weatherby Vangard in a caliber they can shoot and save the .300WBY for later (it's still a good investment). They sell for around $450.00 and are a good value and a much better solution to the issue. Sage hit the nail on the head very squarely!!! More kids get turned off to hunting because somebody figures they need way more gun when in reality it couldn't be further from the truth.
 
JOEY-
can you show me in my post said "JUST a kids gun"?

so if i was to as a question as to what would be the perfect "kids gun, would I not get those calibers as answers?

please don't put words in my mouth-thanks


I know all the normal concerns, I'm not buying the gun- I just don't have any loading manuals that show really under powered loads, and I've never had any experience loading reduced recoil loads.
that's all I'm asking- but thanks "sage" for totally taking my post and turning into one where I guessed I called you a girl or a kid because you own one of these guns, well I guess I'm a sissy also as I own a 7mm-08 myself.
 
hangingmeat, You said, ..."nd don't want to go the standard "264,280,7mm-08,etc" kid guns."

"Kid guns"! how much plainer can you say it. I didn't put words in your mouth, you put your own foot in your mouth.

OK, i can understand that we all don't say things as we mean them to be and i'm as guilty of that as the rest of us here but you need to admit, you are the one who posted it, not me! lol

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Hodgdon lists a Trail Boss load for 300WBY on their website as follows:

150 GR. BAR TSX IMR Trail Boss .308" 3.580" 19.0 1334 20,300 CUP 27.5 1656 28,900 CUP

I also have an old Speer manual that shows a few reduced loads....PM me if you want some data.
 
WADSWORTH,thanks for the info, I'll send you a p.m.

NO DOE: can you explain?

JOEY:
No I won't admit to starting your rant- When I QUOTED "kids guns" I meant the typical calibers that are recommended for kids, YOU in turn reply'd "since when are they JUST KIDS GUNS"
No where did I say that they were "just kids guns" , but if you search these forum, you will see these calibers are HIGHLY recommended for kids. By no means does that also mean they are not "MAN GUNS" either.
You took my post Totally out of context, and that's not my problem.

I own a 7mm-08, a 243, a 25-06, along with a 300 wby and others, so if you believe that I was bashing you or anyone else who owns these guns then I must be calling myself a "kid" or a "sissy" as well.
You have a good day;)
 
Hangingmeat, I have a book by P. O. Ackley. In this book is a section on reduced loads with pictures of rifles that have blown up by using reduced powder charges. Ackle says, " This phenomenon occurs mostly in badly over-bore capacity cases." I wish I could send you the chapter.
Don
 
Everyone seems so contrary here lately! I can go a couple hundred posts and then run into guys like this???

You said it and i took it as you said. I now know what you mean but that's beside the point and after the fact.


I'm still not answering your question as the whole thing is so absurd. IMO, anybody that puts a 13 year old kid behind a 300 Weatherby without a break, should be kicked in the face by a mule.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Hangnmeat,
300 Weatherby kids load = 3006. Not trying to be a smartaz, but as mentioned by another, before you dump a bunch of $'s into this rifle, buy a second rifle. The 06 doesn't have the sharp recoil of any of the .30 mags and can do just about anything the big mags can at reasonable distances. The 06 makes a great back-up gun in case someone in camp has the unfortunate experience of damaging their firearm during a hunt.
Good luck, whatever you decide. Main thing is keep them youngsters in the game!

Norkal

"INVEST IN LEAD FOR THE TIMES AHEAD"
 
That is word for word what I told my buddy- basically your loading it down to a 30-06 or .308

Remember, THIS IS NOT FOR ME- I've already told him the normal stuff like the guns pretty big for a kid, do a muzzle break, buying a different gun for now.

His deal is, they both used a 300 Win mag for their first hunts last year. both of them said it didn't kick at all like they thought it would. I told him that the 300 wby WILL kick more.

So That why I'm just looking at the reduced loads option for him right now, then if it's to much , he'll put a muzzle break on it.
 
I would go the Trailboss powder route mentioned above. Call IMR powder and talk to one of the technicians and they will give you a load that is safe. As they get bigger they can go to full loads. www.imrpowder.com
 
A few comments from the arroyobuck:
1. reduced charge loads that are lower than the lowest in reloading books may cause a significant over pressure situation. I can't explain why, but it is fact that it can and does happen.
2. A 13 year old (or anybody for that matter) will likely develop a flinch shooting a 300 mag sporter if he/she practices off a beer belly bench .
3. My 3 shot groups open up from sub MOA to over 1.5-2 MOA after about 6-8 rounds off a beer belly bench, when shooting my 300Win mag. And it aint the gun's fault; I'm flinching
4. I like my 300 Win mag, but do not "enjoy" shooting it at targets
 
>needbigmagnumitus
>
>is this covered by obamacare???
>just askin....


if your african- american, I would bet it is-- just sayin....
 
Put the nice stock in the closet and get a black hawk recoil reducing stock. A little girl can handle the 300 with that. I got one for my 300 win mag and can shoot it all day, before that I was a two or three shot and call it a day guy.
 
You can load a 300 down to where any kid big enough to pack it can shoot it. just pick a load from the data with the lowest velocity and run with it, use the lightest bullet practical for the game animal as well.

The reason squib loads are dangerous is powder is ignited at the rear of the cartridge and burns forward, if too little powder is in the case the flash can shoot over the entire charge and light it at once. we're talking fractions of a milisecond but that's all it takes.

By the way pay no attention to Sage, nobody else does.











Stay thirsty my friends
 
440 said, "You can load a 300 down to where any kid big enough to pack it can shoot it."

Shoot it, yeah, i'll buy that but a goodly percentage are going to not like it and will develop a flinch that they may well have to deal with the rest of their life.

440 needs to be kicked in the face by that mule. Not only might it improve his looks, he might also then understand how a un-breaked 300 Weatherby mag will feel to a 12-13 year old kid.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I killed elk on our ranch with the worn German 300 Mk V my dad gave me when I was 12 starting when I was 13. he said if you want to hunt elk you need an elk gun so figure it out, I did even shooting rock chucks with it that summer. every hear the expression " cowboy up " ? didn't think so.

Don't assume all kids are 80lb video game wimps just because you were.


I'm not going to say the 300's are ideal kids guns, but they're better than a 243. we all screw up and newbies screw up more, I'd rather track a less than perfect hit from a 300 than a 243 . anyone that thinks the only reason kids make poor shots is because their gun kicks too hard hasn't hunted with many kids.

Stay thirsty my friends
 
"Don't assume all kids are 80lb video game wimps just because you were."

Wrong again, need i send you some newspaper clips of my athletic and/or hunting accomplishments as a young man? The truth is, i was ranch and farm raised, a strapping young man who at 13 years old was already packing blacktail bucks on his back from the far reaches of our ranch. I played Football as a middle linebacker in the Oakland Coliseum in a high school state wide all-star football game and got a full ride at that position to a major University. I was no little kid back then and certainly not a wimp.

My flinch was developed from shooting my Uncles 30-06, before i was able to buy my own rifle, a 25-06 at 15, exactly what some of you here propose to load down this 300 Weatherby loading to. I still flinch when shooting anything from time to time and must work at it to this day but still i am certainly, no wimp!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Almost everyone fights the flinch, it doesn't matter if you started with a .22.

The best way to develop a habit of jerking the trigger is to shoot a shotgun, far worse than shooting a rifle adequate for the job. I shoot competetive sporting clays, sometimes a case of shells a day, give myself or most shooters a blank and watch us cringe. shotguns screw up more rifle shooters than everything else combined so unless shotguns are banned for your kid don't worry about an -06 type recoil rifle.






Stay thirsty my friends
 
Again, i find myself disagreeing with what 440 here has to say. Yes, a shotgun is a heavy hitter on kids, especially if using high base loads on a bench and/or when leaned back against something like a tree. I though, never seemed to mind the shotgun shooting as a youth though because we had tons of dove and valley quail on our place and though i hunted them most days during the season, i was standing up shooting at game, not sitting on a bench, shooting at a target.

The '06 that i spoke of though, seemed to smash me in the face, thus the referral to the mule kick, every time that i shot the thing. Granted, it did not fit me and my Uncle always bought those round nose 180 grain bullets so a better fit and lighter load may have helped but i actually saw what some would call stars every time i shot the damn thing. I did kill several bucks with the thing, cowboy'd up as you put it, but anyone that says that a 30-06 doesn't kick, wasn't a young lad that had shot that old Savage with those loads.

There were other rifles too that helped me along with developing a flinch, a 340 Weatherby that a older fellow Rod and gun Club member had me sight in for him every year and a old metal buttplated Rem 270 Winchester that the guy hand loaded his 150's up there hot as he could get them. That rifle too seemed to loosen my teeth and left a lasting impression.

I just don't think a kid needs to be subjected to that level of recoil while hunting deer and such. A good fitting and modern recoil padded rifle in a reasonable sized cartridge along with good accuracy from plenty of comfortable shooting practice with ear protection is all that is needed.

Joey




"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
So now even a 270 is a killer on both ends? whatever, the point is a kid going after elk needs as much gun as any other hunter and since they're most often not the best shots in the woods a -06 should me minimum.

If they can't handle the cartrige needed for ethical hunting of the species they're after maybe golf would be a better direction for them. I lived through it, most kids I grew up with to did too. an -06 was a good rifle, for a lady, we said. I think todays kids can handle it too, don't scare the crap out of them with this sissy talk that anything bigger than a 243 will put them in a wheelchair and it will all be fine.






Stay thirsty my friends
 
My point was that yes, if even a 270 that is loaded hot with heavy bullets, doesn't fit you, and has a steel butt plate instead of a good kick pad, it can and will kick way more than expected.

Who besides yourself, said anything about this being a gun for Elk hunting? Did you assume this?

You said, "By the way pay no attention to Sage, nobody else does."

I believe that you are again wrong here 440, i've been told by more than a few that they like my point of view on hunting related topics. Does this mean that those who do read and enjoy my stuff are "nobodys"

You start in with that sissy talk to my face and we'd very soon see who the real sissy is!!

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Yeah? Sure, thought you might be amused with me calling you on your outright lies and completely wrong assumptions,! Your opinion on the 300 Weatherby is one thing i could go along with, your attacks on myself, are another that just ain't going to fly!

Joey

"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
Hangingmeat, my apologies are extended if you feel that they be due. 440 is a pro antagonist and insult artist, does it for fun and will take either side of a debate. Maybe he was cut from his high school's debate team and has been trying to make up for it ever since. :)

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
I enjoy your posts, I like the Simpsons and you sound like Homer.



Stay thirsty my friends
 
That's ok with me. I'll be the Homer that advises against a 300 Weatherby for kids and you can be the other guy, the high brow condescending prick that thinks because you did it, every other kid should too.

Joey


"It's all about knowing what your firearms practical limitations are and combining that with your own personal limitations!"
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-12 AT 03:35PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jul-03-12 AT 03:32?PM (MST)

>You can load a 300 down
>to where any kid big
>enough to pack it can
>shoot it. just pick a
>load from the data with
>the lowest velocity and run
>with it, use the lightest
>bullet practical for the game
>animal as well.
>
>The reason squib loads are dangerous
>is powder is ignited at
>the rear of the cartridge
>and burns forward, if too
>little powder is in the
>case the flash can shoot
>over the entire charge and
>light it at once. we're
>talking fractions of a milisecond
>but that's all it takes.
>
>
>By the way pay no attention
>to Sage, nobody else does.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Stay thirsty my friends

I agree, sorta, with what you are saying about 'some' reduced powder charges. In a normal full case load, primer ignition burns the powder forward from the primer along the *circumference* of the case/powder charge.

Sometimes, if the amount of powder in the case is too low (as the gun is placed horizontally for firing), primer ignition may burn the powder forward along the *length* of the cartridge (instead of the circumference) of the case/powder charge....resulting in a much greater surface area of powder being burned and subsequently having an overpressure load. In other words, in the first case, powder burns uniformly while in the second case most of it burns at once.

But, not necessarily a squib load.
 
Come on now guys . My 94 year old grandpa has always shot a 300 wby. He took his last elk at 92 with it . No joke ! They last few years he has been saying all of the wolf have been killing his elk. :)
 

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