243 bullet choice

travishunter3006

travishunter3006

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I'm looking to find the right bullet for My wife's .243. I am hopeful that she will draw the buck bull combo tag this year. After the research that I have done over the internet, these are the basic stats that I have found.

Federal Vital Shok in the 85 and 100 grain bullets:

85gr 100gr
Zero at 100 Zero at 100
3200fps at muzzle 2850fps at muzzle
1935 ft lbs at muzzle 1805 ft lbs at muzzle

@ 300 Yards @ 300 Yards
2375 fps 2170 fps
1055 ft lbs 1045 ft lbs

10.3" of drop at 300 13.4" of drop at 300



So the conclusion that I have come to is that the 85 grain bullet is going to be better out to 300 yards which is my comfort level for her if she practices alot with me this pre season. It just seems like the 85 grain out performs the 100grain on paper.

What have any of you seen off paper IN THE FIELD?


It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
If you are after factory ammo Id say either the 85gr TSX or 100gr PT. Also look at the hornday superformance. If you are handloading then thats a different game. Im hoping the 90gr Nosler Accubond will be out shortly.
 
95 grain nosler BT's are loaded by federal, and make a good hunting bullet in the 243.They have a perty thick jacket, as far as BT's go.

Just so you know tho, all BT's aren't created equal..The 95 in 243 is geared towards big game.
 
I have been reloading the Barnes 85 TSX for my wife in her 243. Have not used it on elk yet and probably will not ever use it. I'll bump her up to the 270 if and when that day comes. But the TSX has done a number on several speed goats and mulies for her. He longest shot to date was just over 300 yards on a speed goat, the little TSX dropped him in his tracks.

400bull
 
Personally I would try out the Barnes TSX 85 grain bullet. 45 grains of 4831 gets you a velocity of 3298, and 46.5 grains of Hunter powder will get you 3330 FPS. That will get you a little less drop, not a ton.

But the performance on a Barnes bullet is deffinately worth the extra cost.
 
What factory recomendations would you give on a bullet that i can use for deer out to 300 yards or elk out to about 150? There are a couple of places that I'd like to try out that have both deer and elk, and I'd like to take advantage of the cituation if it presents itself. I know a .243 isin't the best or biggest, but its what she can handle.




It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-14-11 AT 05:37PM (MST)[p]Okay, I'm old school and glad to hear you say that you know she will really be pushing it using that caliber on a big old bull. However, if she limits the range to 150 and only takes a good broadside shot it will get the job done. I reload and have strictly gone to the Hornady 117 grain BTSPs in my 25-06 for antelope and deer and 150 grains in my 30-06s for deer and elk. I would tell you to go to the Interbond for elk like I do, but Hornady doesn't make that bullet in .243 or in factory ammo. Anyway, they do make the BTSP in 100 grains for the .243 and that's what I recommend
Here are the ballistics:
Muzzle---2960fps&1945ft/lbs---is-1.5"
100 Yds--2728fps&1653ft/lbs---+1.6"
200 Yds--2508fps&1397ft/lbs---zero
300 Yds--2299fps&1173ft/lbs---is-7.1"

Hope this helps in your decision and good luck on the draw!
 
You wanna put Game on the ground or not?

WINCHESTER 80 or 100 Grain POWER POINTS!

REDDOG will even agree!:D

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!
 
Thanks for that input there. What do you think of the winchester xp series bullets? I shot an elk this year at 350 yards quartering through the shoulder and dropped it in its tracks. the bullet passed through the shoulder, through the lung and exited out the other side right after the last rib. I like how well it stayed together and how it punched all the way through at that distance. (30-06 win xp3 180 gr)


It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
Federal Fusion.....off the shelf. Look up the field tests from several shooting guys.

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
YOu're not really considering 85 grain bullets for elk, are you? Seriously? Why would anyone handicap themselves even further for elk than a 100 grain .243 bullet?
 
It has nothing to do with bullet weight. It has everything to do with how much knock down power its got at 300 yards




It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
I guess I was wrong in my prior assesment......go ahead and take the "F".

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-11 AT 07:57AM (MST)[p]nickman---After that last post of his, I think you hit the nail on the head with taking that "F", LOL!!! PS to TH3006: There is no such thing as "knockdown power". Go do some reading on ballistic coefficient(BC), bullet weights, and speed!
 
thank you two for your superior knowledge. I'll take my advice from others now.

If an 85 gr bullet carries more ft lbs of energy at 300 yards than the 100gr bullet, why would I want to shoot the 100 grain?




It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
Sonny, I've probably forgotten more about shooting and ballistics than you've obviously learned in your short lifetime! After reading your posts when given good advice in the other thread you started about your college class, and now reading several of your stupid posts in this thread,I have to say that you need to grow up and listen to people that have been around this world just a little bit longer than you have and dispense with your smartass attitude!!! Now go read the GD information I suggested and you will see why we have suggested to go with the heaviest proper bullet in that caliber that is offered!!! Ah hell, just let her shoot the damn thing with one of those light, high speed varmint bullets. It'll get there quicker on that bull you want her to shoot before he gets away!!! Damn, I thought I was hard headed, but you youngun take the cake!!!
 
So topgun, with all your wisdom and knowledge, why does the 85 gr bullet have more energy at 300 yards than the 100gr?



It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-11 AT 11:57AM (MST)[p]Don't ask me because I don't know a damn thing, LOL! Go do some reading on more than just what you are asking and you'll find out why what we suggested is correct for the application you asked about! Here, I'll even get you started and pay attention to his last paragraph!


The .243 Winchester

By Chuck Hawks
Courtesy of Hornady Mfg. Co.

The .243 Winchester is a better varmint cartridge than the .25's, while remaining adequate for deer and antelope. The .243 launches an 80 grain varmint bullet at a muzzle velocity (MV) of about 3,350 fps. This means that it shoots about as flat as a .22-250, only its 80 grain spitzer bullet has a BC of .365, compared to the 55 grain .22 spitzer's BC of .255. This is an enormous difference, and explains why the .24's are so much better than the .22's on windy days.

When using the .243 to hunt medium size big game animals, bullet selection is paramount. Rapid (but controlled) expansion is very important, as the small diameter 6mm bullet has little shocking power if it does not expand and expend its energy inside of the animal. Two bullets in the 90-100 grain weight range that have earned a good reputation on medium size big game animals are the Remington Core-Lokt and Nosler Partition.

Winchester's Supreme 95 grain Ballistic Silvertip big game bullet is factory loaded to a MV of 3,100 fps with 2,021 ft. lbs. of muzzle energy (ME). If that load is zeroed to strike 2.5 inches high at 100 yards the bullet will then strike 3 inches high at 150 yards, 2.3 inches high at 200 yards, and 3 inches low at 300 yards. At 200 yards that bullet hits with 1,455 ft. lbs. of energy, and at 300 yards it still retains 1,225 ft. lbs. of energy. With this load so zeroed the .243 Winchester is about a 300 yard deer and antelope cartridge.

Reloaders with a .243 are in luck. There are bullets from 55-115 grains from which to choose, and many common powders are adaptable to the .243. Also, .243 brass is strong and plentiful. Generally, bullets from 70 to 80 grains are the best choice for varmint hunting, and bullets from 90 to 105 grains are the best choice for hunting CXP2 class game. Here are some important specifications for reloaders: bullet diameter .243", maximum case length 2.045", maximum COL 2.71", MAP 52,000 cup.

Bullets lighter than 90 grains are generally varmint bullets, and bullets 90 grains and heavier are generally intended for big game hunting. The distinction is important because the internal construction of the two types of bullets is quite different. Very few bullets are adaptable to both purposes.
 
No offense to you T, but an 85g pill is very small for consistently putting down a 1000 lb. animal. And it is less than half as big as the 180 g. slug you sent through your elk. I also have to agree with the questionable choice of 85g on elk.
No doubt a heart shot elk won't know if it's 85g or 200g. killing him, but hitting him in the heart might not be so simple.
So here is what I would say. First-if you are dead set on using a mini-slug make certain it is a well constructed premium type bullet...like the Barnes, or Nosler partition, etc. Second-choose your shots very wisely so your little surprise can do some real damage. If it were me, I wouldn't go below 100g and I would always use premium slugs on any big game.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-11 AT 12:44PM (MST)[p]littlebighorn---I'm in complete agreement with everything you've stated and pretty well said exactly the same thing. I hope he is reading and listening!!! That is why IMHO the .243 is at max a deer caliber, especially in the hands of an amateur, which I believe his wife would fall under. If it were me, there is no way I would use a .243 on an elk and I won't even use my 25-06 with Interbonds for that bigger animal, but rather go up to my 30-06. I do stay with the 150 grain Interbonds though because they have the same POI as my BTSPs that I use on mulies and it saves me re-zeroing from one hunt to the next. PS: I really liked that "little surprise" statement, LOL!
 
Sorry TOPGUN,
We were posting at the same time, My T was referring to the original poster not you...and we are in total agreement.
The venerable Jack O'Connor was a proponent of using smaller calibers on big game because most of us shoot them better, but he always suggested using bigger better constructed bullets to get the job done. And he never suggested using smaller than his favored 270 for elk sized game. I am definitely one of his disciples.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-11 AT 12:51PM (MST)[p]Yep, I realized that after a minute or two of digesting what you wrote! I saw the T and then realized what the deal was! If you go back to my post, I edited it while you were putting up yours to me and threw in a little PS at the end, LOL!!! I also loved reading Jack's stuff and it was funny to see old Elmer Keith tell him he was way off and to lob those big slow bombs at them!!!
 
Thanks for that info there TOPGUN, I honestly now don't think that I'd want her shooting an elk with the .243, I have my old '06, what bullet would you suggest on elk there? my wife is 5'3", Would the 150's be good enough out to 300 yards?


It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-11 AT 01:24PM (MST)[p]I shoot a 375 H&H. Is it overkill? Well that is the idea. I can shoot a 235 grain TSX at 3200 FPS and the sucker is flat shooting as can be too. 500 yards is a very effective range on anything in the Americas.

When I recomended the 85 grain TSX I thought we were talking about shooting a deer out to 300 yards. Maybe an elk in close(less then 100 yards, if the opportunity presented itself. For that purpose I would still stand by my recomendation.

Also - for your '06 if you load a good premium bullet the 150 grain will work for elk. I would recomend the 150 grain Nosler partition, Speer Grand Slam, or again the Barnes family of bullets. But I sure would not move out beyond 300 yards.
 
Now we're getting somewhere! I would suggest using the .243 with any of the heavier premium bullets mentioned by others, but stay with the heaviest in whatever manufacturer you pick and that shoots well for her deer. If she draws an elk tag and it's legal for you to carry the 30-06 along for her for the bigger animal, then do that in case you run into one. The 150 grain Interbond that Hornady makes in 150 grain or any of the ohter premium bullets mentioned by others will certainly take an elk cleanly at 300 yards as will that .243 on the deer she will be after. Just make sure she gets enough practice at the bench with the proper ear protection and has a good pad for her shoulder for the 06. You obviously know it will have a lot more recoil, but as long as she holds it to a padded shoulder and has proper eye relief so the scope doesn't pop her in the eye, she should be able to handle a few rounds in a practice session. Just don't try to BS her about the recoil, but instead, let her know what she needs to do and what to expect from the bigger caliber. Then get off to her side a little to make sure she doesn't creep up the stock for a better sight picture and get popped by the scope because your gun will probably not fit her very well as small as she is. That may be what she will try to do to get a good sight picture through the scope. You can see if she will even be able to use it by setting her up at the house and seeing how it fits her. If it doesn't look like it will be acceptable for her limited use, then you will need to stick with the smaller caliber and limit her range to 150 yards or less on a bull and wait for a perfect broadside shot into the boiler-room and definitely stay away from the shoulder on an elk with that gun!
 
I am in the 'regardless of what caliber you choose, shoot a Barnes' camp. FTlbs of energy doesn't kill an animal, shot placement and a bullet that can get through the vitals kills an animal.

Say you have to pick one projectile to hit you, they both weigh the same and will hit you with the same impact velocity, you will have the same ft lbs of energy, right? Now, pick between a raw egg and a golfball. Which do you want to get hit with?

Barnes are like a golfball. Use the 243 with an 85gr TSX, keep the range sane, say 200yds or less, and stay off the heavy bones.
 
.243 Winchester Supreme Elite Rifle Cartridge, 95-Grain XP3

2027 ft/lbs. muzzle.........3100 fps


1730 ft/lbs. at 100 yards...............2864 fps at 100 yards



1471 ft/lbs. at 200 yards................2641 fps at 200 yards



1243 ft/lbs. at 300 yards................2428 fps at 300 yards


This looks like the kind of bullet that hold together and delivers the best and shoots rather flat.




It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-11 AT 05:34PM (MST)[p]k22hornet (15 posts)
Mar-15-11, 02:07 PM (MST)
26. "RE: 243 bullet choice"
I am in the 'regardless of what caliber you choose, shoot a Barnes' camp. FTlbs of energy doesn't kill an animal, shot placement and a bullet that can get through the vitals kills an animal.
Say you have to pick one projectile to hit you, they both weigh the same and will hit you with the same impact velocity, you will have the same ft lbs of energy, right? Now, pick between a raw egg and a golfball. Which do you want to get hit with?

Barnes are like a golfball. Use the 243 with an 85gr TSX, keep the range sane, say 200yds or less, and stay off the heavy bones.

*****Travishunter3006********

I have no idea where this poster got his idea that ft/lbs of energy doesn't kill an animal, because he completely contradicts himself with the second part of his sentence. The bullet delivering the proper ft/lbs of energy is exactly what kills the animal! That bullet must be put in the proper place and must certainly be of the proper weight, construction, and speed to produce the ft/lbs of energy necessary to penetrate the vitals and make that humane kill. Then his second paragraph stresses exactly the opposite of what he stated in the first paragraph because the egg can be compared to your lighter varmint bullet, while the golf ball can be compared to the heavier big game bullet we are telling you that you should be using for either animal. Any person with a decent knowledge of ballistics should know that and most of the experts will tell you that you need approximately 1000 ft/lbs of energy and 1500 ft/lbs of energy to properly take a deer or elk-sized animal, respectively! That is exactly why they show those figures in ballistics charts and you should try not to exceed the distances where the ft/lbs drop below those numbers. The Barnes is a very good bullet, but my feelings are that the 85 grain bullet is not for elk and the caliber itself, even with a heavier bullet, is very marginal for elk. However, he did get it right that you shouldn't hit the shoulder even with a premium bullet in that light caliber. I think you are on the right track with your 95 grain XP3 and it would be even nicer if they made it in a heavier grain or if you could work up some reloads with a heavier grain bullet, especially if you are not going to have her at least try the 30-06 at the bench. Just look at the figures you gave in your last post on the XP3 and you can see the distances you won't want her to exceed with her small gun.
 
Travis.....its called "learning".

We all been there, done that, and spoke when we should have been listening.

Don't take it personal and learn to roll with it.....'cuz it won't go away, no matter how old you get, nobody knows it all!.

You'll be fine, you got the tools.

"whackin' a surly bartender ain't much of a crime"
 
GEEZUS!

Ya ever notice?

Nobody has ever killed a 'little bodied' 2 point!

JFP!

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-15-11 AT 05:38PM (MST)[p]travishunter3006---I'll now answer the question you asked sarcastically when I came right back at ya with my own! Speed, son, speed, and speed isn't everything in ballistics as you are finding out!!!
 
When the 375 RUM is put together there's gonna be some 'KNOCKDOWN POWER' REDDOG!

It's gonna 'KNOCKDOWN' anybody that pulls the Trigger!:D

I don't care if they're big or small!
If they throw lead I like em all!
 
Topgun, without getting into it, I never said that speed was anything, the 80gr bullet holds 10 more ft lbs of energy at 300 yards than the 100gr.
Now, my real question is, which bullet will penetrate deeper?



It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-11 AT 07:18AM (MST)[p]All things being equal (10 ft/lbs really is nothing at 300 yards), the heavier bullet will due to it's mass. That's why we have been saying to go with the heavier bullet in a big game situation and why nickman made that "take an F" post right after you made your statement that it has nothing to do with bullet weight. I do apologize for calling your statements stupid. A more appropriate comment for me to have made would have been that they were not well thought out and you were lacking enough information to make those statements! Think about that before you make any off the cuff comments in your college classroom! Look at it this way. Would you rather get hit by a bicycle or a semi going 70 MPH?
 
Now I agree with your observation of the bycicle or the semi. But the TSX or TTSX Barnes bullet leave such a huge wound cavity that I think the 85 grain slug will surprise you. I would recomend the 100 grain, but they don't make it.

I have literally seen exit holes the size of your fist from a ttsx in the 243, as well as the 257 roberts, my dads favorite. And this was on Deer size game. So I guess the comparison would be, would you rather get hit by a semi, or an exploding bicycle?
 
LAST EDITED ON Mar-16-11 AT 11:45AM (MST)[p]pookiebar---Neither, LOL! I don't disagree with you on a deer, but a friggin elk is many times that size! Getting any .243 bullet beyond the middle of that large chest cavity is tough and I would bet some serious money that 9 out of 10 would not be a passthrough like you're talking about on a deer! Thus, the chances of only a small entry hole leading to an animal on the run with little blood trail and a fun tracking job even with snow on the ground and I have no idea if the latter would be the case where th3006 plans on hunting!!!
 
you know TOPGUN, the one thing you just said that never crossed my mind was tracking the animal. The only one i've ever had to track was a buck I shot a few years ago at 250 yards as he was running. But those winchester 165 walmart blue light specials did the trick on him. LOL but the blood trail, entrance and exit holes were rather large and made tracking him really easy even in those low even light conditions that we are often presented.

Punching a little hole that the .243 makes would make it rather difficult to track a big buck if he was hit high in the lungs or just in general if he didn't topple over right there.






It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
Glad you're still around reading! With that little pill I'll just about guarantee that it will be a tracking job unless it's a perfect head shot and for God's sake, let's not get into that! There are many many things you have to think about when choosing what to use on an animal that size. I really would like to have you try her out with that 06 of yours and give that a chance, rather than with that .243. If you are in the type of soil and country I think you intend to hunt, IMHO you are asking for real problems with that small gun!!! That big bull my buddy shot in Wyoming last year that I posted on here was hit with a 7mm mag using the best Nosler bullet. It was a perfect shot right through the chest with the bull broadside at somewhere around 300 yards and it was one heck of a smack when it hit. That bull went down and still got up on his front legs to leave and John wisely hit him again right between the front legs to put him down for good! That is one heck of a lot more gun than your 5'3" Mrs. is carrying!
 
I think I'll take your advice and run with that. 243 for deer and the 06 for elk. I'll get her behind the 06' this Saturday and see what loads she can handel.


It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
Good! Just take it slow and try doing what I mentioned in my other post so she doesn't get her eye poked with the scope and let me know next week how it went!!!
 
the .243 is far from ideal on elk too be sure. a 95 grn balistic tip loaded appropriatly and placed in the boiler room will handle elk. it will turn the heart lungs to jello. i have only seen one elk shot with a .243. it was shot with a win 100 grain pp. the bullet hit the off rib but didn't exit. i think you would be better off with her shooting the .243 accuratly then possibly shooting a bull in the leg or paunch due to flinching with the '06. but maybe a reduced load in the '06 would be the answer. bullet placement is everything. i lost half a day of hunting because a buddy of mine gut shot a doe with a .300 rum. we found the deer almost a mile later and he had to shoot it twice more. he was using 200 grain a-frames and they were just punching pencil holes. but had he made a good shot it would have died quicker. it's all in bullet placement.
 
I should have been more clear with the egg/golfball analogy.

Topgun, I think you missed the point, the egg and the golfball weigh the same, with the same ftlbs of delivered energy, but they react differently at impact. Since the egg will splatter, the energy dissipates rapidly with no penetration and probably no injury. The golfball might kill you.

Same ftlbs of energy delivered to the same point on the target, but different outcome due to the projectiles construction.

Let's up the anty and make it a golfball vs. an egg that weighs 2x the golfball. Now you have twice the ftlbs of energy with the ostrich egg compared to the golfball. The golfball might kill you whereas the egg only stings and makes a mess.

Would you rather drop a 10lb pillow on your bare foot or a 2lb hammer? Construction of the projectile makes a huge difference.
 
Start her off right now shooting the .243... Let her build confidence with it then introduce her to the 06' with 150 grain bullets... If she cant handle the 06' then use the .243 ... It's that simple..

Truth is many new shooters flinch in anticipation of the muzzle blast not just the kick... So it's almost just as easy to develop a bad habit (flinch) with a .243 as is a 30-06..

horsepoop.gif


Disclaimer:
The poster does not take any responsibility for any hurt or bad feelings. Reading threads poses inherent risks. The poster would like to remind readers to make sure they have a functional sense of humor before they visit any discussion board.
 
What doesn't make any sense about your egg golf ball analogy is what if the egg is scrambled? I think it is common knowledge that deer like their eggs sunny side up. Actually as a superior hunter I'm probably the only one who knows that!
lol :)

Just blowin smoke UYA.



It was a big bodied 2 point.
 
What you guys have just mentioned is what I have been saying all along and I assumed she has already been shooting that .243 for a while. If not, then I would concur with starting there before she moves to the 06, and then as you mentioned, he could also start her off with the lower recoil loads. If things go good, then go up or stay with whatever she is comfortable with. Proper shot placement with a properly constructed bullet is obviously the key.
 
thousands of archers kill elk every year with arrows. The idea is that if you make a hole in their heart or their lungs, they die. The same holds true for the .243. Ideal? Probably not. But, if you hit that elk in the boiler room with a good bullet, it will die.

If you do go with the .243, I'd go with a barnes tsx or similar and hit that thing in the blood pumper. Game over.
 
Started my wife on the 243, she had never fired a gun in her life. Moved her up to the 06 shooting 180 grn bullets. She's 5'08 135 lbs and she handled it just fine. The bigger problem was the weight of the gun not the recoil. Get her comfortable shooting them and she'll be just fine.
 
>
>It has nothing to do with
>bullet weight. It has everything
>to do with how much
>knock down power its got
>at 300 yards


I hadn't been back to read this thread in a while, and I'm disappointed with most of what I read, though the latest posts have some measure of common sense about them. First of all, it is quite apparent that some of the posters haven't done much, f any, elk hunting. There is one hell of a HUGE difference in killing an elk than a mule deer, especially when you're talking about a mature bull of 6+ years age. If you've never seen a big bull absorb the hit from a 180 grain 30 caliber bullet to his shoulder and keep walking as if nothing happened, you don't really have any idea about the concept of "Knockdown Power". Nobody is going to 'knockdown' even a spike or cow with a .243, regardless of the bullet you're shooting. If you want to shoot a rifle with some knockdown capability, it starts with about a .338 and goes up from there.

Even considering the concept of shooting an elk at 300 yards with a .243 is irresponsible, and if those of you promoting it had done much elk hunting, you'd know that. Can if be done, sure it can. Can it be done with great consistency, no way in hell. Some fine animals would be lost to shooters with this mindset. If you are going to shoot a .243 at an elk, please shoot a quality bullet like a nosler partition, barnes TSX, remington corelokt (sorry to those of you who don't like them, they kill stuff very dead, very reliably) or something along those lines in 100 grain or heavier weight, and limit your shooting distance to something reasonable like 100 yards or so.

I don't know your girlfriend, so I know nothing of her shooting ability, but I'll ask this question about any novice hunter. Does she even have any business shooting at an animal at 300 yards? If you're not sure, the answer is NO. Would you do more harm to go home without her firing a shot, or to lose an animal, get her very upset and have her not want to hunt anymore, let alone losing a fine animal that you could have tried to stalk closer to?
 

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