saddlesorerider
Active Member
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Looks like the 12AW is burning pretty good.
The Mangun Fire 24,000 acres and only 2% contained
The Mangun Fire 24,000 acres and only 2% contained
12 AW Fire
- Thread starter saddlesorerider
- Start date
That whole mountain is what it is because of fire! I wish California would take a lesson from the Kaibab on how to do prescribed and managed burns. When one blows up like this one has, it hopefully runs into a past fuel management area and then they get a handle on it. Just hope nobody gets hurt and no structures are damaged....but fire is nothing more than Mother Natures cleansing agent!
CatfishKev
Active Member
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Big fire east of Phoenix in unit 22 heading for punkin center and tonto basin, roosevelt lake. It's also a biggun. Lilke 36k acres, it's the bishop fire.
CouesFanatic
Active Member
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Why is this terrible? This is the best thing for the hunting up there. As long as people and their homes/businesses are safe, let it burn. Gunna make the Kaibab even better hunting.
BradA
Long Time Member
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Maybe just not good for this year or seasons hunting ?
Although many areas need fires to help the ecology and the eco system, not all fires are good fires. Just hoping this isn’t one of the fires that does more harm than good. Also hoping it doesn’t negatively effect this years tag holders.
CouesFanatic
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Have you guys hunted the kaibab? The burn up there is the best thing that happened to it. This fire will produce another 20 years of giant bucks and great opportunity to 10,000 plus tag holders. This years tag holders will be fine. There's deer everywhere up there.
Perfect. Glad to hear that. Everything I read about the kaibab in the last ten years is that it’s deer are still on the mend. Hoping this has the positive impact you’re stating. Thanks for the insight.
fin little
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The past prescribed fires around Jacob Lake may be what saves Historic buildings and businesses in that area. The fire fighters are giving a valiant effort but it will be up to weather in the end. We expect another red flag day today.
Lancetkenyon
Active Member
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Bush fire. 64,500 acres so far.
Bighorn fire in Tucson too. 16,000 acres.
Magnum fire up on the Plateau is over 30,000 so far.
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fin little
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CouesFanatic
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Are you there fin?Would love to hear some local info
CatfishKev
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- 147
Dang auto correct
CatfishKev
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Not sure how to feel about this fire.
The (old) burn is great, lots of feed and the aspens work as cover for the deer. Now youth doe tags have been cut in half which is good as well as buck tags reduced, but with the old burn and the new burn that opens up a whole lot of glassing area. That means a whole lot more of glassable country. My fear is the deer will suffer a fate like the elk did in units 1 and 27 in AZ after the big fire. New glassable country means more big animals killed.
Please tell me I'm wrong!
The (old) burn is great, lots of feed and the aspens work as cover for the deer. Now youth doe tags have been cut in half which is good as well as buck tags reduced, but with the old burn and the new burn that opens up a whole lot of glassing area. That means a whole lot more of glassable country. My fear is the deer will suffer a fate like the elk did in units 1 and 27 in AZ after the big fire. New glassable country means more big animals killed.
Please tell me I'm wrong!
CouesFanatic
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- 716
The old burn isn't what it used to be 10-15 years ago. Theres still a lot of deer in there but it's not the magnet it used to be. It's growing back pretty good. I wouldn't worry about it getting shot out. Tags are down, this burn will open up a lot of country that didn't hold a lot of deer before. It should spread people out more instead of most people being in the burn up top. Theres still a ton of country around that can hide deer. Everything south of the old burn to the rim can hide deer. That west side of the highway north of Jacob Lake a bit is an infested cedar mess that could use getting burned. It's going to create some new awesome habitat for big antler growth. Hopefully it burns all the way down to the flats on the north end.
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fin little
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Cousfanatic I'm in Kanab. This is an amazing fire. They have no control of the North East front side of the fire. The perfect storm of weather and fuel. It looks like Jacob Lake will be spared. BURNING 12 B NOW
CouesFanatic
Active Member
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Glad to hear that. We have had a lot of good times there at Jacob Lake. Seems like a long narrow fire with some widening happening. That north east end like you said, hopefully gets stopped down low in the sage flats.
Bwht4x4
Very Active Member
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I wonder how many guys are going to use their point guard and return tags this year. I could see a few of the archery hunters and the early rifle hunters doing this. Especially if the winds turn south and it starts to burn southeast and back across Hwy 89A. If it did that and connected with the old burn scar from the Warm Fire that would be a huge area of the plateau!!
Fire has pushed off the top and is now active all of the way down to the BLM lands. Like I said before, fire is a good thing, especially on the summer range where recovery usually results in a much better eco system. However, it has now moved onto the migration/winter range. Recovery is usually much slower at this elevation. I would agree....this would be the year to have a tag! Next couple of years might be a bit tough for the deer on the winter range?
iluvrax
Active Member
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I’m sure this will be a good thing in a lot of ways, and I know wildlife are not stupid, and will escape the fire for the most part...
But my question is, have there been mortality statistics from an actual fire of this size, these circumstances?
I’m sure a lot of wildlife were trapped in some way or another?
Just wondering?
Thanks!
But my question is, have there been mortality statistics from an actual fire of this size, these circumstances?
I’m sure a lot of wildlife were trapped in some way or another?
Just wondering?
Thanks!
I would love to have a tag this year. I hope the fire heads south east and goes all the way through the Warm fire of 2006. Fire is great for the wildlife & habitat. By the way, the Warm fire was aprox 40K acres and this fire is already at 59k and no end in site.
rockymtnhunter
Active Member
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- 201
My perspective regarding the ongoing Mangum Fire based on working for the FS on the North Kaibab and nearly 50 years of hunting there – my views stem from my personal experience & observations and my forestry degree. My apologies in advance for what is a probably a long-winded posting.
First, some background to set the stage. Fire is essential to maintain healthy ponderosa pine forests in the Southwest. But such fires on the North Kaibab were infrequent during the early-to-mid 1900’s due to FS policy of quickly suppressing every fire. The Saddle Mountain Fire in 1964 was the only major wildfire until the late 70’s. The Moquitch, Demotte and LeFevre fires in the late 70’s-early 80’s were the among the first major fires in a long time - during the 80’s the FS began to change its fire management policies and started to recognize/use fire as a tool to restore the health of the North Kaibab’s forest ecosystem. Most large fires on the North Kaibab have tended to burn from the SW toward the NE because that is the general direction of prevailing winds during fire season.
I first hunted the North Kaibab in 1971 – deer were abundant on the high plateau in the pine/mixed conifer forest – large aspen stands were uncommon. Through the 70’s and 80’s I hunted the high points along the western side of the high plateau, such as Castle, Big Springs, Nail, Moquitch and Oak Points – big bucks were abundant throughout those areas. Late 80’s and early 90’s were a high point in terms of big bucks. The 1996 Bridger Knoll Fire was a large fire that burned from south to north along the west side from Big Saddle north to Pine Hollow and beyond. It created/restored a lot of transition zone and & winter range areas. I hunted the area burned by the 59,000 acre Warm Fire in 2006 (commonly referred to as the “Burn”) prior to that fire – bucks were there, but hard to find because of the thick forest. Since the “Burn” I’ve continued to hunt the points mentioned above, but each year I find fewer and fewer deer on those points, esp. during the archery hunt. My opinion is that the “Burn” attracts and holds many deer that used to be found elsewhere. Why? Because of the super abundant browse that grew (primarily aspen) after the “Burn”. Many deer are concentrated in and around the Burn during the archery season and the early rifle hunt – as are hunters! Hunters concentrate there because the fire removed the dense forest and made it possible to glass & spot bucks. But knowledgeable hunters are aware that by 3-4 days after opening of early rifle hunt bucks move out of the burn area and can be found at lower elevations toward the west.
Deer generally start moving toward winter range areas in response to extreme hunter pressure in the “Burn” and temps/weather in mid-to-late Oct. My understanding is that about 60% of deer on the high plateau migrate toward the west, 20% move east and 20% move north. In addition, deer in the Paunsagunt unit of Utah migrate south into northern AZ in late Oct – hunters in 12 BW and north end of 12 AW are hunting UT deer in late Oct and Nov.
The 55,000+ acre Magnum Fire will have an immediate effect of temporarily displacing deer from the burned areas. But deer will quickly begin to move into it when monsoon precipitation causes annual grasses to emerge in Aug and Sept. Probably won’t see the same flush of aspen regeneration because much of the north half of burn is at lower elevation where aspen in not prevalent. It will likely cause archery and early rifle hunters to be displaced out of burned-over areas. Water will continue to be a limiting factor. The burned area north and east of Hwy 89A will likely quickly see regrowth of oak, locust, cliffrose, sage and grasses. It will open up large areas that can be glassed.
Burned areas south of Warm Springs Canyon will be devoid of deer for a year or two, but deer will move through these areas as they move west off the high plateau as they migrate toward winter range areas. I expect in a few years there will be abundant aspen providing feed and deer will likely concentrate there during the summer and early fall – perhaps spreading out the super concentration of deer found in and around the “Burn” – and that will be good.
Bottom line – in spite of the Mangum Fire, any Kaibab tag is a good tag to have this year. Vehicle access will likely be restricted until mid-July or later due to extreme fire danger; hunters may not be able to do the same advance scouting due to area closures. Expect increased hunter concentrations in areas outside the Mangum Fire area. And in the long-term, expect greatly improved habitat conditions for deer and continued hunting opportunities for big bucks for one of the greatest mule deer area in the West. And I’ll be there with a tag in my hand!
First, some background to set the stage. Fire is essential to maintain healthy ponderosa pine forests in the Southwest. But such fires on the North Kaibab were infrequent during the early-to-mid 1900’s due to FS policy of quickly suppressing every fire. The Saddle Mountain Fire in 1964 was the only major wildfire until the late 70’s. The Moquitch, Demotte and LeFevre fires in the late 70’s-early 80’s were the among the first major fires in a long time - during the 80’s the FS began to change its fire management policies and started to recognize/use fire as a tool to restore the health of the North Kaibab’s forest ecosystem. Most large fires on the North Kaibab have tended to burn from the SW toward the NE because that is the general direction of prevailing winds during fire season.
I first hunted the North Kaibab in 1971 – deer were abundant on the high plateau in the pine/mixed conifer forest – large aspen stands were uncommon. Through the 70’s and 80’s I hunted the high points along the western side of the high plateau, such as Castle, Big Springs, Nail, Moquitch and Oak Points – big bucks were abundant throughout those areas. Late 80’s and early 90’s were a high point in terms of big bucks. The 1996 Bridger Knoll Fire was a large fire that burned from south to north along the west side from Big Saddle north to Pine Hollow and beyond. It created/restored a lot of transition zone and & winter range areas. I hunted the area burned by the 59,000 acre Warm Fire in 2006 (commonly referred to as the “Burn”) prior to that fire – bucks were there, but hard to find because of the thick forest. Since the “Burn” I’ve continued to hunt the points mentioned above, but each year I find fewer and fewer deer on those points, esp. during the archery hunt. My opinion is that the “Burn” attracts and holds many deer that used to be found elsewhere. Why? Because of the super abundant browse that grew (primarily aspen) after the “Burn”. Many deer are concentrated in and around the Burn during the archery season and the early rifle hunt – as are hunters! Hunters concentrate there because the fire removed the dense forest and made it possible to glass & spot bucks. But knowledgeable hunters are aware that by 3-4 days after opening of early rifle hunt bucks move out of the burn area and can be found at lower elevations toward the west.
Deer generally start moving toward winter range areas in response to extreme hunter pressure in the “Burn” and temps/weather in mid-to-late Oct. My understanding is that about 60% of deer on the high plateau migrate toward the west, 20% move east and 20% move north. In addition, deer in the Paunsagunt unit of Utah migrate south into northern AZ in late Oct – hunters in 12 BW and north end of 12 AW are hunting UT deer in late Oct and Nov.
The 55,000+ acre Magnum Fire will have an immediate effect of temporarily displacing deer from the burned areas. But deer will quickly begin to move into it when monsoon precipitation causes annual grasses to emerge in Aug and Sept. Probably won’t see the same flush of aspen regeneration because much of the north half of burn is at lower elevation where aspen in not prevalent. It will likely cause archery and early rifle hunters to be displaced out of burned-over areas. Water will continue to be a limiting factor. The burned area north and east of Hwy 89A will likely quickly see regrowth of oak, locust, cliffrose, sage and grasses. It will open up large areas that can be glassed.
Burned areas south of Warm Springs Canyon will be devoid of deer for a year or two, but deer will move through these areas as they move west off the high plateau as they migrate toward winter range areas. I expect in a few years there will be abundant aspen providing feed and deer will likely concentrate there during the summer and early fall – perhaps spreading out the super concentration of deer found in and around the “Burn” – and that will be good.
Bottom line – in spite of the Mangum Fire, any Kaibab tag is a good tag to have this year. Vehicle access will likely be restricted until mid-July or later due to extreme fire danger; hunters may not be able to do the same advance scouting due to area closures. Expect increased hunter concentrations in areas outside the Mangum Fire area. And in the long-term, expect greatly improved habitat conditions for deer and continued hunting opportunities for big bucks for one of the greatest mule deer area in the West. And I’ll be there with a tag in my hand!
CactusPepper
Member
- Messages
- 57
West of Jacob Lake. It was thick as heck. This fire should really help the Kaibab in the years to come.
rockymtnhunter
Active Member
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- 201
Warm Springs Canyon is the deep east-west trending canyon that goes from near Ryan east toward Jacob Lake - FR 462 goes up it. Mangum Fire started just north of Big Springs Field Station and has burned 60,000 acres moving about 25 miles north/northeast all the way to the forest boundary at Buckskin Mtn near the UT/AZ border.
Setcams4u
Member
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- 36
You know that's true. At least one will be mine.
Lancetkenyon
Active Member
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Lancetkenyon
Active Member
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Here is the current map of the Mangum fire. 61k+ acres, 4% contained.
all4freedom
Member
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- 94
All the people saying fire is a good thing are right..... they also don’t have Kaibab tags this year. LOL If you have Point guard I’d use it and buy points for 2 or 3 years.
BOHNTR
Long Time Member
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- 4,339
Not even close.....I hope to draw! The hunt the year the warm fire happened was incredible.
fin little
Active Member
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The locals call Warm Springs canyon The Gut.
oldcrow
Member
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- 16
There are still deer in the Jacob lake area for sure. I have seen them on the way to the fire camp up there. Fire burned with low intensity up top in some of those areas where previous fuel treatments have occurred, and with very high tree mortality in other areas I have been including the warm springs canyon.
Lancetkenyon
Active Member
- Messages
- 141
Listen to this guy! Turn them back in if you are lucky enough to draw.
(That way, if you draw a tag, and turn it in, I will have a better shot of getting it!)
This is perfect timing for the fire! The monsoons will start soon and there will be new growth almost immediately. There will be deer right in the middle of it within weeks! Yes...turn in your tags, I only have two points and could use all the help I can get!
Lancetkenyon
Active Member
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CatfishKev
Active Member
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- 147
How do you get it to show the the progression map? I'm on inciweb and don't see any sort of a link for that?
AZ8
Active Member
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- 447
Click on the Maps link within the Mangum Fire page.
Lancetkenyon
Active Member
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Lancetkenyon
Active Member
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71,043 Acres, 68% contained. Hope it doesn't top out on the Vermillion Cliffs Plateau.
SlowElk
Active Member
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- 433
Sooooo..... With 8 points next year, this burn, and point creep, I probably won't get a tag next year? Dang, I was hoping for a "country boy safari". Was planning on getting leftover any elk, leftover turkey, deer tag, lion tag, and spending three or four weeks up there.
CatfishKev
Active Member
- Messages
- 147
Who's your guide?
adubs
Active Member
- Messages
- 104
Booked with A3, my brother had the same tag last year and had a great experience with them, no better referral than that.
CatfishKev
Active Member
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- 147
That's cool you got a tag. The fire won't hurt you at all.
diablo
Very Active Member
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- 1,228
Let us know how it looks BOHNTR. I’m planning to get over there to scout too in a few weeks.
oilcan
Long Time Member
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- 3,789
Nice
AZNATIVE98
Active Member
- Messages
- 159
Were you able to drive around in the burned area?
AZNATIVE98
Active Member
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- 159
, I just checked the mangum fire page and it looks like they've updated the fire map.
diablo
Very Active Member
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A few photos of the burn.
Looks like it burned pretty intensely in some areas (like the pj hills in northern part of the unit) and not so bad in others.
The first photo is near Ryan, the second is near Le Fevre overlook and the third is just northwest of Jacob Lake.
Looks like it burned pretty intensely in some areas (like the pj hills in northern part of the unit) and not so bad in others.
The first photo is near Ryan, the second is near Le Fevre overlook and the third is just northwest of Jacob Lake.
iluvrax
Active Member
- Messages
- 355
??
Yes please!rockymtnhunter
PM sent
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