.001 Straightness Worth $?

canhunter · Apr 8, 2007

Several of us have been debating (for almost a year) buying the +$100.00dz carbon shafts to see if they are that much better. All of us are shooting the Gold Tip XT because for the price the straightness/weight variation is one of the best. Just don't want to waste money on something that has already been actually tested. Not opposed to what "it is supposed to be" but we prefer the reality version of equipment changes. We are looking only for accuracy enhancement by changing to a straighter more weight uniform shaft. Has anyone actually shot the same arrow/bow set up with one arrow being a lower level of straightness/weight variation against another arrow of a higher level of straightness/weight variation? If you have then what was the results?

ajensen83 · Apr 8, 2007

I will preface my comments by saying that I am new to archery.. I purchased my first bow about four weeks ago, the last time I shot a bow was about 16 years ago... when I purchased the bow I also bought a dozen Easton Axis arrows and I really like these arrows... I am shooting a consistent 3 inch group at 30 yards and often I can cut that down to about an inch at 30 yards.. when I was at the pro shop the other day, the guy behind the counter just got in a bunch of the maxima hunters and he turned these on his little machine that shows how straight they are (I dont know what this machine is called)... as he spun them I noticed they were straight, I didnt know how straight until we started spinning other arrows.. the second best arrow for straightness in the shop was the easton axis... the worst were the gold tips (I know, a lot of guys shoot these and I am sure they are great arrows)... I bought a half dozen of the maxima's.. I was shooting about 2 inches high at thirty yards, but they did seem to be more accurate.. my first group was under an inch... I am going to shoot these two different arrows for a while and let you know how they compare..

canhunter · Apr 8, 2007

Thanks for the info. Maxima's are .0025 and the Axis FMJ is .003. Did you happen to notice what Gold Tip it was? You did what we have talked about by splitting a dozen amongst three of us. I also am new to archery (4yrs) started with .006 Carbon Express and switched to Gold Tip XT's .003 the second year. Please, this is not bragging but I can't shoot at 30yds because even with field points I tear up the fletching if I shoot more then one arrow most times. No I don't hit the nocks, but the shafts are touching often. The XT's are accurate just trying to find out if .001 will make enough difference at 60-80yds. 50-70 is a reality for where I hunt so hoping for evey edge I can find to help accuracy.

MikeLonsford · Apr 8, 2007

Last year I ordered some Goldtips that were the .003, when they showed up they were the .001, I got two dozen like that! I guess they were out of the .003 and didn't want my order to take that long so they substitued.

I am far from an expert archer, I have been shooting arrows for the last two years, I do not shoot 3D, I just shoot in my backyard between 20 and 70 yds, usually about 50 yds. I could not tell any difference in the .003 vs .001. I would suspect there is one, but I am probably not good enough, consistent enough, to be able to tell. I am only concerned in consistently hitting a small kill zone circle. I can relate on the tearing up fletches and nocks at 30 and closer, I will only shoot a few arrows at 40 at the same target anymore, 50 I think it's ok to shoot as many as I want. I like shooting a target with multiple circles on it for this reason.

From what I have read you should only spend the money if you are big into competetions, 3D or target shoots. For hunting I'll keep buying the .003's. I'm sure there is probably some testing done with the robot shooter arms that could give you avg arrow accuracies. Anyway that's my experience with them.

Mike

idahoelkinstructor · Apr 9, 2007

I have used Gold Tip for several years now. They are a good arrow, I will still use them. But I have found both the Axis Super Slims and Axis Full Metal Jacket to be more consistent as far as straitness and weight goes. One rumor I hear all the time about gold tips is they are now being made in Mexico and they have lowered their quality. Don't know if this is true or not? But I do know that the pure carbon easton Axis is a better arrow than Gold tips, again I like the super slims and FMJ, more than the regular Axis. For most hunting situations I don't think you or the animal will notice the difference between $50 arrows or $150 arrows. Some archers will disagree with this, but I am betting they also want to strech the range a bit and are willing to take shots out to 60 or 70 yards at big game animals. In their case they do want and need the best arrow possiable. But for the majority of archers shooting out to 40 yards almost any arrow will work as long as its properly spined.

jasn · Apr 9, 2007

I shot the carbon express cx 3d selects for a long time since they were 0.001. About a year ago I couldn't find them and was forced purchased the CX line instead, 0.0025. The selects are the same shafts, just the selects happen to be the ones that come out to be the straighest during production (measured is my understanding). I believe the CX have a variance and might be worse than 0.0025.

At first I couldn't tell much of a difference, and I'm still not completely sure it was the arrow, but I did notice a slight spreading of my group at distances over 70 yards (I practice to 120 yds). All were the same grain weight and near same FOC, so I couldn't explain it except for straightness, but then again it was probably more mental? For me, I didn't mind paying for what I believed to be the select arrows of the lot.

I still don't really believe that most any archers could even tell the difference and in my opinion the price difference is only in your own personal justification. Shoot both and then decide for yourself because more than likely your answer is NO.

ajensen83 · Apr 9, 2007

Yeah, I have hit six nocks in 5 weeks.. I can "slap" my arrows pretty regularly at 30, and I have ruined 5 fletchings on my arrows as well.. but I pull an arrow about every third shot and move my group out to about 3 inches... I shot the maximas and the eastons side by side today... I put a one inch circle target down at 30 yards.. by the end of the night I was touching the one inch dot with at least two out of three arrows... I only did this twice with my easton axis... I wonder if I have shot my axis enough that I have bent them because I just could not keep the same groups.. I really like my axis but I might be switching if this keeps up..

the other thing I am going to test is that I have flex fletch on my maxima's straight four inch fletchings on my axis.. I am going to refletch a few of my axis arrows and try that.. see if that tightens them up a little..

grizzlyplumber · Apr 10, 2007

My hunting partner has shot Easton ACC for years and I was impressed and wanted some so I went down to order some and saw the Blackhawks that were carbon/aluminum for $120 doz instead of $130 doz. They were the worst arrows I have ever had the misfortune to put on my bow. I could barely hit the Block target at 40 yards, I put my bow away for a couple months thinking it was my fault and target panic or whatever because $10 arrows couldnt be crappy, right?
Pulled my bow back out and put the first arrow into the block wall, gave the last few arrows to my buddies son and bought some Terminators for $50 doz and never looked back. My buddies son eventually threw the Blackhawks away.

elkaddiction · Apr 10, 2007

When it comes to quality arrows straightness is important. However, I believe a consistent spine is atleast as important, particularly if you are going to put wings (broadheads) on the front. I shot GT XTs for the last 4 years (probably purchased 5 dozen). They were OK--but far from ideal. I always number my arrows and shoot them with both field tips and broadheads to insure they all hit the same point of impact. The short news is they don't. I've found that in a typical dozen, I have to rotate or replace nocks to get 10 or 11 of the dozen field tipped arrow to hit the same point of impact. One out of dozen never will. However, throw on broadheads and I cull about 1/2 of the arrows. I believe what's happening is although straight, the spine is inconsistent, and when broadheads are installed, things go to hell. This year I started fresh with axis arrows and GT Pros to see if the quality improved. So far, the move has made a difference. I have not seen the same need to roate nocks to get a field tips to hit the same POI. This summer, I'll take the time to shoot all the arrows with broadheads to see how they compare. Bottom line is I think once you get to .006 level of straightness, spine consistency is far more important if you intend to install broadheads.

canhunter · Apr 10, 2007

Everyone, Thanks for the info and I really appreciate the actual comparison results. Addiction, The GT Pro's was the upgraded arrow we were looking at. What one is shooting better the Pro's or the Axis?

ARROWHNTR · Apr 11, 2007

Just a clarification on the Axis arrow they are not pure carbon they contain a large amount of fiberglass as well, do a bend test on them they will hold a bend, unlike an all carbon arrow!!

elkaddiction · Apr 12, 2007

So far I'd call them sixes. In fairness, I haven't had the couple of uninterrupted weekends to do the testing. I have talked to folks who say even with the straightness and even weights of the GT Pros, they still have some spine issues. Haven't seen it first hand--hope it's not true, I purchased 2 dozen of them.

ajensen83 · Apr 12, 2007

I weighed several GT pro's today at the pro shop and checked the straightness... they were not real straight or consistent... I expected more from 350 dollar a dozen arrows... they were about 15 grains apart from the heaviest to the lightest... one of the other guys shoots them real well though...

BOHNTR · Apr 12, 2007

ajensen83 quote: "I expected more from 350 dollar a dozen arrows..."

For $350.00 a dozen those arrows should be guaranteed to hit any critter you shoot at!

BOHNTR )))---------->

slider · Apr 13, 2007

350 a dozen?????

canhunter · Apr 13, 2007

You better be getting kissed with a tongue and a tickle for 350 a dozen for any arrow.

swbuckmaster · Apr 13, 2007

LAST EDITED ON Apr-13-07 AT 11:16PM (MST)[p]Canhunter? You asked if anyone has tested XT and Pro?s and if the Pros are worth the money?

I have tested both arrows the XT and the Pro?s here is my take. I want perfect arrows for the best flight with broad heads for hunting and for target. If you don't use the best arrows you will not compete with the competitive shooters period! These shoots are won by fractions of an inch.

If you have a 27? draw or shorter you can buy the less expensive arrows and spin them on cheep arrow spinning device from cabalas. ?This will cost about $25.?

You can tell which side of the shaft is more crooked and cut it off with a ?home made arrow cut off saw you can get from Harbor Freight for $25,? or you can cut a little off both ends of your arrow like I do. This will make your cheep arrows as straight as your pro?s.

Now for weight issues, ?buy an arrow scale for $25-35 from cabalas.? Also if you look at your arrows they come with a tag that has the weight they were grouped with. Write this down and only buy the same weight arrows to begin with. After you have cut them all you can weigh them individually and put them into groups with the same weights. Than weigh all of your points and nocks the same way. You will notice that you can mix and match until you get the most consistent arrows. If you have a few that are on the heavy side ?you can use a $25 arrow squaring devise from cabalas,? and shave off a little more to achieve the weight you are looking for. I use it on both ends of my shafts for perfectly square ends.

Now you have perfectly matched arrows that will be as straight and have the same weight consistency as the pro?s for a lot less money.

If you have a longer than 27 inch draw it will be harder to get them as straight.

Now for your second question will they shoot the same as the pros? Yes if you have properly done the steps above.

Someone else mentioned spine inconsistency:
All arrows have what is called a spine rating. They test them to see what the deflection with a weight applied to the center of the shaft is and group them. I only use this as a guide. Before I fletch my arrows I test their Dynamic spine. This is done if you have good enough form by shooting through paper at 5-10 yards and twisting your nocks until all of your bare shaft arrows shoot a perfect bullet hole. You can actually see the tear move until it will shoot a perfect bullet hole. ?If it wont I mark them and set it aside and, use these arrows for 20 yard targets and closer where they are more likely to be destroyed.?
If your form is inconsistent you can do this with a Hooter Shooter if your archery shop has one.

Now that you have your arrows weighing the same and bending the same when shot out of your bow you can shoot what ever broad head you want with your field tips at any distance with the tightest groups you have ever shot. , ?As long as the broad head is the same weight as what you tested your dynamic spine with, and has enough fletching to steer the front end.?

If it doesn't it is the Indian behind the bow!

canhunter · Apr 13, 2007

SW, Thanks for the input much appreciated. Just being a tightwad and not wanting to spend money not needed. Sounding more and more like I may not spend it. BUT............Don't need a arrow saw have one (apple), don't need a scale have one (RCBS digital), don't need a shaft tester have one (Cabelas), Paper tuned to a bullet hole. I have done everything but buy the expensive shafts. Probably have to break down and reduce the beer for a month to really know just dont want to. About ready to puke as I can hear the wife listening to Oprah about fags and dikes. Nothing like having our hunting messed up by liberals. Thanks again. Can

ARROWHNTR · Apr 14, 2007

Gold Tip doesn't even make an arrow that retails over $200 / dz let alone 350, i think the pro hunters are selling for around 120.00

ajensen83 · Apr 14, 2007

yep, you are right, that was my bad... it was the easton X10's and the gold tips i was playing with.. I though they were the same price, they are not...