Alton/Heaton hunt made news

I didn't see the story, but it doesn't sound too good. However, htere are always two sides to every story and I'd like to hear both of them. Any ideas on where the tape came from? Anti's? Another hunter? If it was another hunter that isn't good. Especially when there are so many anti's out there that just love to see stuff like this. Anyway, I hope it's not true, too bad if it is.
Later,
Elkster
 
All I can say is way to go guy's! 11,000 dollars for a deer tag and you shoot it trapped in a high fence?!. The anti's are going to love this one. Personally I would rather shoot a spike or two point on my own in the high country where it is a fair chase! I hope he remembers that hunt every time he looks at that "trophy" buck. Regardless of who submitted the tape the fact that they pushed those deer into a high fence and shot one is very unethical and non sporting! Have a great day guy's.

Chad
 
The only way garbage like this stops is to put it on the six-o'clock news. Congragulations to whoever sent in that tape.
 
I have been thinking about this debacle. Maybe I am wrong in being disgusted in this behavior. Maybe it is the filming party's fault. Maybe I need to hear both sides and the ranch is innocent until proven guilty. I just don't know. This is very bad publicity for hunters and the sport we love.

Then I figured BS. It is very much the fault of that particular ranch. The persons who filmed that should be congratulated for brinig this very distasteful method of "hunting" to the attention of all to see. I have no problem shooting a deer in a hay field. However, it is just plain wrong to chum the public's wildlife into a high fence situation and charge $11,000 to thump it.

Is it just me, or is this topic being ignored because of the person involved and his association with a particular group? Too many times I have seen posts about poaching, shooting on the wrong side of the fence, use of radios, use of ATV's, late season tags, use of guides, ethics this and ethics that, etc. and the people here at MM hang the bastard by his testicles and there is an outcry for a public lynching. This situation has not been addressed in that fashion and it certainly is no different in terms of the legality of the actions.

I cannot get over the interview by the landowner. When the reporter asks why the propped up gates all he could do is look at him and go "duh".

Why in the world would the "average hunter," as so often referred to, in the world of MM and "sportsman's" group not addressing this as harshly as it should be? Is this what hunting and group association is about? Tell me now that it is not about control and big dollars. Good hell wake up people. These are actions by those who are supposedly representing the sportsman.

I am probably going to get blasted, but that is OK. I won't "do anything for wildlife" if those who supposedly work with the DWR and other groups for the "average hunter" if their motive is to murder a monster buck in a make shift zoo and pad their own wallet while doing so.
 
You won't get blasted from me. I agree 100%. Hunters get enough of a bad rap from outsiders. If we don't police our own and put a stop to unethical and immorral behavior, both of which were readily apparent in that video, we will all face and long, tough, road ahead. What a bunch of buttheads! I can't believe that clown had the cahoones' to stair right into the camera and lie about it after being caught red handed.
 
I'm not trying to stir up trouble or get into any conspiracy theories...

But I think it should be pointed out that the outfitter involved in this high fenced hunt deal that made the news is a Board Member of the Sportsman for Fish and Wildlife here in Utah.

You can read anything you want into that or take it any way you want. I'm not passing judgement just pointing out a fact.

It's on their website under "Officers and Board Members".

Hopefully, everyone decided to watch the Simpsons that night on TV instead of the news, or maybe that Blind Date show on UPN.
 
Yes you are. ;-) You are trying to stir the pot!

OK, if not you then me. Once again this thread is getting buried. Maybe it is because the best way to get a Monster Mulie in Utah is at the Heaton Ranch, and your odds of getting that opportunity will diminish if you come out here and bash the methods of hunting they use. I guess it is not acceptable for Joe Blow to use his GPS or 2-way radio, but certain private ranches can use 10' of net wire, penning horses, and portable gates. Remember "It is the same as hunters running deer into a box canyon."

I posed the question indirectly why the supporters and directors of this fine organization have not publicly spoken out against this act.

Hownd Dawg, you need to get get your butt in the Fast Pass line for It's a Small World, quit causing trouble, and always remember; it is Disneyland that is the Happiest Place on Earth and not the Heaton Ranch. :)
 
The two most important pieces of equipment for the modern day trophy hunter are a rifle and a checkbook . There are Boone and Crockett bucks for sale by unscrupulous outfitters and landowners , no physical excertion required , just bring your checkbook and rifle . With enough money you will probably make the cover of a magazine , won't your family and friends be so proud !
 
Fishon, do you know anything about this????

Fenced in deer, the organization's stance, infamous e-mails? :) Is any of this connected some way? Like a tangled web that has been weaved?
 
I agree that we should hear both sides of the story before passing any judgement. Hasn't this happened to all of us? You are out hunting with your buddies and the section of 8 foot fence that you always carry around gets stuck in the brush. You call your friends over to help you get it loose. So they bring their horses over to help pull it out and accidentaly spook some deer towards you. Now you think, hey, bob has a deer tag and there's some bucks that seem to be standing by your fence for some reason, so you call bob over and he bags a deer. Happens to me all the time. We should really try to understand the context of this thing.............................
 
I was offerd the same hunt in 2000 by guy I met while hunting the PAUNSAGUNT any weapon only hr wanted $3500. since I already had the "tag".
He said the ranch, they would run them and that I kill a 30" at lease and that they had much bigger than that if I was into a "book buck"!
RANCH WAS IN ALTON!!
(so if same ranch they were doing this for a while!)
Rackmaster
 
Anybody really think that the Kane Co. D.A. will file charges against the Heatons? Remember, The Mormon Mafia? This will just go away like so many other cases that get submitted.
 
I really got a kick out of that guy when he was being interviewed and said, 'The deer ran into the wrong place' like it is the deers fault that all those guys walking and trucks parked around didn't have anything to do with where the deer ran........

Why on earth would they even have all those great big high fences anyways??
 
Those big high fences are to keep the deer "OUT"!! But these deer are getting so smart, they drop the gates, and when the hunters seen the gates were down, they stood them back up, and then noticed the trespassing deer inside and then came the "rest of the story" you seen on the video!!
hehehe
Pretty sad to even call them "hunters". They're not hunters in my book!

a*r

A bad day hunting is better than a Good Day at Work!!
 
Get your hands on the whole video it will make you sick. The little snippet on the news is nothing.


Mulehound
 
I hope they yank their tags. They are one of the main reasons for the decline of the Pauns, imo.
 
These guys have been doing this kind of garbage for years and getting away with it. The fence in the video is new this year. It runs almost the entire length of the South end of the ranch and it does run the entire length of the hayfields all the way to the main road to Alton. How convenient that the fence was built on the side where the deer migrate to pulic land, could it be to trap them in? When I seen the fence this year I knew what they had in mind and I informed the fish and game that they ought to take a look at that fence. I drew a Pauns Tag this last year and had the opportunity to see the deer that was in the video alive several times. They were coming in from the South side and accessing the fields right down the main road. During the early archery hunt he was still alive. The rumor is that on September 1st before light while the deer were still in the fields the guilty parties parked their trucks on the main road blocking the deer from leaving the fields. Then they pursued the deer knowing they had no where to go except to run into the fence. To make matters worse the guy shot and wounded it and then his gun jammed. One of the guides jumped in a truck and ran back into town, which is only a few blocks away, for another gun while the deer was running up and down the fence bellering trying to get out. Once the guy got back with the gun then they finally shot it, and that is what is seen on the News tape. The tape seen on the news is supposedly no where near what the real tape showed. I can't believe that Wade Heaton could stand there and play the whole thing off like he did on the news. The way he hum hahed around everything seems to me an admission of guilt as he is trying to cover it all up. As far as I'm concerned his whole operation should be shut down permanantly and his guide's license revoked along with several heavy fines. He should never be able to guide or hunt in Utah again. And by the way, the fence also needs to be torn down. It will be interesting to actually see what happens. It will probably be a minor fine and his hand slapped and he will be out there doing the same thing this year and for years to come. Now that is some justice aint it? If the rumor is true, I would say from the sources that it is 100% true, then they need to make an example out of him. It shouldn't matter how much land his family owns it doesn't give him a right to butcher our resource and make a mockery out of the sport we all love so much. Just my opinion.
 
Hey, it's my understanding from my sources that fishon has a copy of this video. Does anyone out there know if that's true?

How many of you have seen this entire video?


Runner
 
I think there are a few Land owners who really take advantage of the CWMU program. I would like to see the Division put some pressure on them to remove the high fence. I would also like to hear what the Division's investigation and conclusion was. Don't get me wrong, I think it is a good program. However, a few bad actions or choices sure makes the whole hunting community look bad. At the very least everyone should protest the use of high fences on CWMU ranchs in their next RAC meets. I would like to see a requirement of a CWMU raches disallowing high fences.
 
If Fishon has a copy of the tape do you think he called out the SFW exec that was on that hunt?? Could that of been the reason he left?? HMMM
 
And, what the he** is a high fence doing in Utah. The ONLY reason for that high fence is to keep game in, unless their cows or whatever can jump a regular fence.
 
I don't know for sure, but I believe the fence was being built to keep deer out of the alfalfa fields. Not sure though.
A year or two ago there was a landowner that was shooting deer off his property down there because they were eating in his fields, yet he didn't feel that he was properly compensated for the damage, so he shot them, including the big bucks.

After that, there was supposed to be a fence built around his property to keep the deer out. Just a guess, but maybe this is the partially built fence.
????????

Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
 
FOUNDER

Are you saying that the cwmu shot a deer on someone elses property? Because that is what it sounds like when you stated that a fence was being built to prevent a land owner from shooting deer.

I understand that it is the heatons property that the buck was killed on. So either the cwmu operator tresspassed on to the farmers ground or the cwmu operator shot that buck on his high fenced property. Either way it was un-ethical and law breaking from what I saw. I also heard that the hunter did not wear any hunter orange, that is a violation in its self. Was there a ticket issued?

runner
 
The High fence in the video is part of a fence being built around Alton to keep deer out. Its not the same fence built around the landowners field that was shooting deer a couple of years ago. Just to clarify.
 
Seems to me the fence was keeping deer IN the fence! Not to ethical at all. Petty tragic story for all hunters who actually pursue mule deer using fair chase practices. I hope the Heatons are proud of themselves. What a joke!
 
I think Brian may be onto something and he may be right.

That high fence probably was intended to keep deer off their ranch. At $11,000 a deer tag I would think all ranchers would be very anxious to keep those pesky deer off their place, not just the Heatons.

They probably got tired of all that extra revenue and money in their bank accounts and decided enough was enough. Build a fence and keep those big antlered maggotts off our ranch!! :)

Makes sense to me. ;-)
 
Keep in mind that the Alton CWMU is not just one ranch owned by one family. The unit is made up of many ranches large and small, with many different property interests. I belive there were 7-8 different landowners in the CWMU, each hunting differently. If a guy draws the Alton CWMU tag then there is another drawing/assignment as to which ranch he gets to hunt, and some are better than others.

As for the high-fence, Mr Heaton (Wade's dad) stated at a meeting in November that the CWMU had put $100,000s of dollars into building a high fence around the town of Alton, because many residents were upset with the deer and damage. He said the DWR was not giving the CWMU any $$$ money. He used this as a reason to why the CWMU should not have their tag numbers cut back as drastically as the rest of the unit.

As for the "Shoot" on tape, that was a real joke. It shows a horrible side to our sport that should be punished severly. There is no comparison between a box canyon and a highfenced field that has its gates shut on opening morning. The hunter and guides should be punished in some way.
 
The fence is not around the town of Alton. From what I have seen it only spans the South side and goes up over the ridge to the west with no intention of surrounding the alfalfa fields. If it was built in order to keep deer out, then why is there not a gate on the main road?
 
RUMORS, SCHMUMORS!
SINCE I WASN'T THERE I REFUSE TO PASS JUDGEMENT. IF I WAS THERE AND WITNESSED THE ENTIRE CHAIN OF EVENTS, THAT MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT STORY.
BUT I WILL SAY THIS, FENCES THAT ARE CONSTRUCTED WITH THE SOLE PURPOSE OF ENTRAPPING WILD GAME SO THAT THEY CAN BE SHOT BY HUNTERS (REGARDLESS OF THEIR FINANCIAL STATUS) ARE ENTIRELY AND COMPLETELY UNETHICAL.
THAT BEING SAID, HIGH FENCES IN AND OF THEMSELVES ARE NOT AN EVIL CONCEPT. I AM FROM TEXAS, OF WHICH 98% IS PRIVATE LAND, AND THE VAST MAJORITY OF MY HUNTING HAS BEEN ON PRIVATE LAND. I GREW UP HUNTING WHITETAILS IN EAST TEXAS WHERE A SMALL 8 POINT (BY MOST STANDARDS) IS CONSIDERED A TROPHY.
THESE DAYS I AM FORTUNATE ENOUGH TO HUNT ON AN 8000 ACRE PRIVATE HUNTING LEASE IN SOUTH TEXAS WHERE ANYTHING LESS THAN A 150 B&C MAY BE CONSIDERED A CULL. THE ENTIRE 8000 ACRES IS HIGH FENCED. SOME OF YOU MAY CONSIDER THIS UNETHICAL. CONSIDER THIS. THE PRIMARY PURPOSE OF 99% OF HIGH FENCES IN TEXAS ARE TO KEEP DEER OFF OF THE PROPERTY. THE REASONING BEHIND THIS IS NOT TO KEEP THE QUALITY DEER FROM ESCAPING, IT IS TO KEEP THE INFERIOR DEER FROM INTRUDING. LAND OWNERS WHO HAVE THE FINANCIAL RESOURCES TO SPEND TENS OR HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS ON HIGH FENCES ARE NOT GOING TO NEGLECT THE WELFARE OF THE DEER ON THEIR PROPERTY THAT THEY BUILT THE FENCES TO PROTECT IN THE FIRST PLACE. THEY SPEND MANY THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS EACH YEAR MANAGING THE HABITAT, HERD SIZE, HEALTH, AND QUALITY. SO NOT ALL HIGH FENCES ARE INHERENTLY EVIL.
ONCE AGAIN, IF THOSE GUYS HERDED THOSE DEER INTO THE CORNER OF A HIGH FENCE SO THAT THEY COULD SHOOT ONE, THEY ARE DESPICABLE AND DO NOT DESERVE TO CALL THEMSELVES HUNTERS OR SPORTSMEN.
BUT I JUST FELT THE NEED GIVE MY PERSPECTIVE ON HIGH FENCES IN GENERAL.
SORRY THIS IS SO LONG, BUT I TEND TO GET CARRIED AWAY ON SUBJECTS I FEEL STRONGLY ABOUT.

GOD BLESS YOU, AND SUPPORT OUR TROOPS ABROAD.
SEMPER FI,
JOHN
 
Most hunters out "West" and the ones I know in Utah disapprove of confining animals for the sole purpose of harvesting them. I can't bring myself to call the shooting of an animal behind a fence a "Hunt". That is a whole other topic that has been bantered about on this site for the past 5 years.

Hopefully Texas has the same motto as Las Vegas, "What Happens in Texas, Stays in Texas."
 
I will just keep this SFW crap here. We are now graced with their BS all over this website.

I would like to hear from SFW. Are they lost somewhere?

1. Why the burnt bridges between Fishon and the Great Don?
2. What is the stance of SFW on the poaching of deer in a high fence situation by a chapter president?
3. Is high fence hunting and poaching by SFW big shots an OK practice? How does this affect the average sportsman? Did this help us all by airing a poaching video on the channel 5 news?
4. Are corporate sponsors seperating themselves from the group because of money issues?
5. Are there money issues? Like the loss of, or wasting of 10's of millions of dollars? Donated dollars to a "non-profit" organization?

Come on guys, air this thing out. For some reason or another there is no public stance on any of the subjects.

Please don't try and question my intelligence with that horse crap that fences were used to keep the deer out. 11k a pop and they want them out? How damn stupid do they think people are?

One more thing. I see SFW has "made suggestions" about the elk from that stupid, assinine, self-centered, cry baby bullshit survey they had on their website. For Chris' sakes, does anyone with half of a pea-brain think that the survey is worth the waste of cyberspace it was printed on?

Do not try to give me that crap about doing anything for wildlife either. If it is all about B&C/P&Y and poaching deer in a corral is doing something, then I will be sure not to do one damn thing.
 
Some people are idiots and do dumb things and send stupid e-mails, but that one person does not make the whole organization bad does it FISHON.
 
LAST EDITED ON Jul-01-04 AT 10:52PM (MST)[p]Andyman,

No offense, but what it means to this thread is that what ever they did, no matter how illegal, IT WILL BE SWEPT UNDER THE RUG!!

JB

PS- I thought that little guy on the temple was blowing a bugle, Is it really a rifle?
 
I'm not from down there, but I know one of the heaton's from the mish. Maybe in those small communities It's hard for them (sheriff)to see somone in the church as doing something wrong. I don't know, but I do know that it's not the "mormon" church that's protecting them.
 
Has anyone hunted or been on the Alton I have. It was veeeeery stupid what they did but, I Have never been treated better from anyone than I was the Heaton family when I drew the alton tag in 1993. They treated me and my hunting buddy better than they did there paying clients. Troy was running things then. The best food I have ever eat'n on a hunt total cost $0.00.
Stealth
 
HoundDawg said:
I think Brian may be onto something and he may be right.

That high fence probably was intended to keep deer off their ranch. At $11,000 a deer tag I would think all ranchers would be very anxious to keep those pesky deer off their place, not just the Heatons.

They probably got tired of all that extra revenue and money in their bank accounts and decided enough was enough. Build a fence and keep those big antlered maggotts off our ranch!! :)

Makes sense to me. ;-)
Click to expand...
nope, not true at all.... very little compensation for the crap they eat and tore up, and just to have ykw come and profit off them when they left the field.
 
elkassassin said:
Hey Dr H?

I Don't Think You Know HoundDawgs Meaning!
Click to expand...
Yea, I guess if it is meant as sarcasm.... Not really sarcasm if you know what I know... Their was a-lot of stuff that went down then and thru the years... If he was meaning sarcasm I apologize. I re-read and I probably did misread it.
 
Yup, he prob is!
I shouldn't say what I really wanted because it would immediately tell more than I care to on the whole situation.
 

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