2B Where did the deer go

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JFBNORTHERNHUNTER

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Spent the last two days scouting for my father’s hunt next week(October 26-30). We scouted from the safe flats to the state line and even around the lake and we only turned up elk and wild horses. No sign and very little water. What’s your thoughts?
 
JFBNORTHERNHUNTER said:
I was even using the spotting scope and couldn’t turn one up on the reservation. There is a lot of drilling activity near Rosa Road and up high is dry and no water.
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I was up there goofing off Labor Day weekend driving behind the now locked gate going into Eul thinking I might take my boat in and walk up the road that takes you down to the lake.

LOGOS has it so screwed up with their drilling and frac'ing activity that it's a sad state of affairs...
 
2 days of scouting in 2b isn't much scouting at all. It's a big unit with very few deer. If you covered as much of the unit as you said you did you probably didn't find any deer because the only way to find deer in 2b is to break each area you hunt down and really scout it and learn it before moving to the next. The local bucks are very smart and know how to hide. It is not even close to the unit it used to be, but there are a few good bucks around if you've got tons of time and knowledge. about 90% of the deer killed in 2b these days are 1.5-2.5 year old bucks. Add in the dry conditions and it's even tougher than usual. Go hunt it and you may get lucky, but it is a tough hunt and will be until they cut the tags by about 60%-70% for about 10 years.
 
Majority of deer herd got shot out by too many tags being awarded! As has been previously stated, there are “some” mature bucks still around but got that way by being smart and isolated.
Case in point, personally know of several individuals who have recently taken high scoring bucks however, they put in an inordinate amount of time and effort scouting, before and during the hunt.
Good luck!
 
roadrunner said:
I don't know about that. There are some penny-loafer wearing wildlife biologists on [MM] that say reducing tags has nothing to do with "helping the herd"...
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It's been studied for decades, hunting bucks exclusively doesn't affect the herd. You only need 10 bucks per 100 Does to get all the Does bread. Too many buck tags might cause a lack of good bucks, but shouldn't affect the herd. Not sure if Colorado gives any Doe tags or not for this herd.
 
5yearcoueshunter said:
It's been studied for decades, hunting bucks exclusively doesn't affect the herd. You only need 10 bucks per 100 Does to get all the Does bread. Too many buck tags might cause a lack of good bucks, but shouldn't affect the herd. Not sure if Colorado gives any Doe tags or not for this herd.
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You mean you only need 1 buck for 10 does; a buck every year that won't get zapped by a lion, hunter, or auto.

Probably true so long as all the other variables don't have an impact. When they do, you cut tags...
 
JFBNORTHERNHUNTER said:
Spent the last two days scouting for my father’s hunt next week(October 26-30). We scouted from the safe flats to the state line and even around the lake and we only turned up elk and wild horses. No sign and very little water. What’s your thoughts?
Click to expand...
When I scouted for elk all I found was deer and no elk. Saw some deer all around blanco, and Navajo Lake. Zero elk.
 
Welcome to 2B, haha the unit has just absolutely tanked, thanks to tag allocation, predation and technology allowing more success in the field. There is nothing going for the future of that deer herd. Resident deer haha what resident deer, unit could run with the best of them but the NMDGF dick up everything they dip there hands in. The migratory deer are the only thing that keep that unit alive. Things will get better by next week and there will be water everywhere with the recent storm. Finding that upper age class deer will be a challenge but is doable. Best of luck
 
There haven't been any appreciable migration rifle hunts for some time now. Hunts being moved up in October and early November is part of it, changing weather patterns is the other.

The 15"-18" avg of snow put down in the high country last weekend will not push them into 2B. The rest of everything from Pagosa Springs to Tiffany CO looks like 2B right now.

The first two rifle hunts are normally a little more tough, the 2nd is better, and 3rd hunt tou will begin to see more deer activity. The bucks know where the does are. They'll start to make themselves seen a little more.

We have a tag in our household for this weekend to the 30th as well. We aren't picky, a 2x1 will suffice...
 
1st day of the 2nd rifle was tough, kinda figured it would be.

Something about it being 72 deg in late Oct chasing deer doesn't seem quite right...
 
4 YEARS STRAIGHT WITH 150 Buck tags in late November thru early December , OVER 100 OF THOSE TAGS FILLED ALL 4 YEARS, thats over 400 bucks not including the regular rifle hunts. OVER hunting is what has hurt this unit more then drought , predation, and other natural causes . Then theres the poaching .... I wont say anything else , this is just my opinion but is shared by so many. The youth hunt has been cut to 25 tags instead of 150 but the long term damage has been done.
 
If the hunting is so bad, why does everyone continue to apply for this unit? I’ve never hunted it for myself, but I continually read every year about how bad it is, then look at the draw odds and it continues to be a unit everyone applies for every year.
 
That's a great question. And because it is still in such high demand it seems like the Game & Fish is content with keeping everything the same even though the deer need a huge break in that area. Reputation from 20 years ago continues to fuel the applications in the area, but it is a very small fraction of what it used to be. Poaching in the area is also very bad as we mentioned above.

One of the other things that drives me crazy about the area is that some of the outfitters kill animals by simply pushing animals from area to area. They have someone track them and keep pushing them all day until they finally kill them. Often times the animal is extremely exhausted and gets killed because it can't go anymore. They use trucks and radios to reposition hunters in front of the animals escape routes and shoot them as they move through. if they miss, they jump in the truck and haul a$$ around to the next escape route and do it all over again. It's wildlife harrassment at it's finest and they never seem to get in trouble for it. Tons of animals are wounded and most of the hunters, helpers and guides are all drinking the entire time this is going on. It's ridiculous, but they've done it for years and never get so much as a slap on the wrist.
 
money said:
That's a great question. And because it is still in such high demand it seems like the Game & Fish is content with keeping everything the same even though the deer need a huge break in that area. Reputation from 20 years ago continues to fuel the applications in the area, but it is a very small fraction of what it used to be. Poaching in the area is also very bad as we mentioned above.

One of the other things that drives me crazy about the area is that some of the outfitters kill animals by simply pushing animals from area to area. They have someone track them and keep pushing them all day until they finally kill them. Often times the animal is extremely exhausted and gets killed because it can't go anymore. They use trucks and radios to reposition hunters in front of the animals escape routes and shoot them as they move through. if they miss, they jump in the truck and haul a$$ around to the next escape route and do it all over again. It's wildlife harrassment at it's finest and they never seem to get in trouble for it. Tons of animals are wounded and most of the hunters, helpers and guides are all drinking the entire time this is going on. It's ridiculous, but they've done it for years and never get so much as a slap on the wrist.
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I hate slob hunters.
 
money said:
That's a great question. And because it is still in such high demand it seems like the Game & Fish is content with keeping everything the same even though the deer need a huge break in that area. Reputation from 20 years ago continues to fuel the applications in the area, but it is a very small fraction of what it used to be. Poaching in the area is also very bad as we mentioned above.

One of the other things that drives me crazy about the area is that some of the outfitters kill animals by simply pushing animals from area to area. They have someone track them and keep pushing them all day until they finally kill them. Often times the animal is extremely exhausted and gets killed because it can't go anymore. They use trucks and radios to reposition hunters in front of the animals escape routes and shoot them as they move through. if they miss, they jump in the truck and haul a$$ around to the next escape route and do it all over again. It's wildlife harrassment at it's finest and they never seem to get in trouble for it. Tons of animals are wounded and most of the hunters, helpers and guides are all drinking the entire time this is going on. It's ridiculous, but they've done it for years and never get so much as a slap on the wrist.
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This is 100% accurate and it is stupid.
 
Why so many apps?

Just google "best mule deer units in New Mexico" .

1) Results #4,5,6 are guides saying "We only hunt the best trophy units 2A, 2B, 2C."
2) Result #1 is monstermuley subs giving out info on where to find 250" bucks tied to a tree.
3) There were 2050 tags available for GMU 2B (2021 odds report) and some have pretty high draw rates.

Every treestand hunter from from the midwest and buggy rider from Espanola thinks
"Those will be good units to apply for."
And they do.
 
money said:
One of the other things that drives me crazy about the area is that some of the outfitters kill animals by simply pushing animals from area to area. They have someone track them and keep pushing them all day until they finally kill them. Often times the animal is extremely exhausted and gets killed because it can't go anymore. They use trucks and radios to reposition hunters in front of the animals escape routes and shoot them as they move through. if they miss, they jump in the truck and haul a$$ around to the next escape route and do it all over again. It's wildlife harrassment at it's finest and they never seem to get in trouble for it. Tons of animals are wounded and most of the hunters, helpers and guides are all drinking the entire time this is going on. It's ridiculous, but they've done it for years and never get so much as a slap on the wrist.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know who they are by name....
 
Sonny Jim! Talk about a grind. Finally filled the tag this morning at 8:35, 73 yd shot. We had been cutting his tracks behind a locked gate off and on since Monday on the north side of hwy 64 in the Carson.

Morning started off great as you can see. When we were breaking him down to pack out, the snow moved in. We were approximately a mile away from the truck.

20241030_084852.jpg


20241030_084728.jpg


20241030_084819.jpg
 
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