S
slickrick
Guest
Drew my late season tag this morning after 19 years, starting my hunt right now. I have never been to this part of CO and am looking for any advice people are willing to share.
elks96
Long Time Member
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Simply a,aging! You spend 20 years working for a tag in a place you have never bothered to see? I would also suspect you have not res arched much at all or paid attention to the recent reports! If you had you would realize that 21 is in the dumps and it has been years since it was very good! Sure there are 1 or 2 really good bucks killed there every year, but the majority of hunts and reports are reporting barely better that decent bucks!
Do some reading and you will find that numbers are down. The only thing going is the great rain we have gotten this spring so far, if it can keep wet through out summer horn growth will be good, but I a, still a,aged when a person spends 20 years on getting a tag then gets on here and appears to have no clue at all,what they are doing!
Do some reading and you will find that numbers are down. The only thing going is the great rain we have gotten this spring so far, if it can keep wet through out summer horn growth will be good, but I a, still a,aged when a person spends 20 years on getting a tag then gets on here and appears to have no clue at all,what they are doing!
S
Skodiespal
Guest
Congrats, you should have a great hunt, still some very big bucks being taken, saw pics of one last year scoring 220 ish, you should have no problem getting a 185 or larger buck, this is one of the easiest units to hunt as there is, lots of roads, lots of deer and lots of public land, you could find a large buck anywhere on the unit, drive til you find good numbers of deer. If the weather is dry concentrate your efforts around water. Rooms, food, and gas are available in the town of Rangely, good luck and have fun.
buckmster28
Moderator
- Messages
- 400
Well I do think 21 is not what it ounce was, that being said there are still a lot of bucks there. Granted there are not 30" bucks running all over but still a fun hunt. I hunted 2nd season in 2010 and yes was a little let down but still had fun and killed an o.k buck. If i learned one thing on this hunt it would be to stay mobile. I typically hike into remote areas and glass from tall peaks, 21 is riddled with roads so dont plan on hiking all over the place. If i were to do it all over again i would have traveled a lot more, these deer are moving that time of year and its more of a rght place at the right time hunt. If you want P.M me and i will tell you where i hunted but I dont think i was in any secret spots again i think a good buck could come from anywhere on the unit just need to bet lucky and if you dont have fun and you can always take a decent one in the end.
Coloradoboy
Very Active Member
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- 1,388
19 points on 21.... All I can do is cringe and wish you luck. Cover lots of country, use you glass a ton. 200 plus deer are possible yes but anything over 180 is extremely respectable in this day in age. Especially with little to no knowledge of the unit.
Coloradoboy
Coloradoboy
S
StripBuckHunter
Guest
Lots of criticism but I don't see anybody offering better alternatives to 21 late for somebody with 19 points. Gunny has long been toast and Eagle County has too much private. I myself might go for 61 over 21......but not by a lot.
With the large number of bucks in 21 there are still some gooduns. Dunno what kind of buck the OP is expecting.....or what his skills are. Only he can answer that.
Here's 2 bucks from 21 late. The first was taken by my buddy near Rabbit Mtn and has a 200" frame. Dunno the details on the second one except the pic is obviously also from the lower country of the unit. Same hunt.
With the large number of bucks in 21 there are still some gooduns. Dunno what kind of buck the OP is expecting.....or what his skills are. Only he can answer that.
Here's 2 bucks from 21 late. The first was taken by my buddy near Rabbit Mtn and has a 200" frame. Dunno the details on the second one except the pic is obviously also from the lower country of the unit. Same hunt.
elks96
Long Time Member
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Do tell me when those bucks were taken strip buck! I can honestly say that unit 21 is nothing like it was no where even close! With the decrease in range conditions there simply is not the food to support the deer it once had! Between the horses and the drought the deer simply are not there! When was the
Sat time you were on Rabbit Mountain? I can tell you the last 3 winters in the area I could count the number of deer on rabbit mountin on my fingers. That is during thanksgiving through winter. I I never said there were not some still around, but I believe a person hunting hard in many lesser demand units has just as good of a chance as they do in 21. Luckily it is not as bad as unit 10 yet but it has been in the dumps!
This past winter we never got a good inversion and the deer got slaughtered on the Douglas pass highway as the canyons never got cold and the deer were down. I spend pretty a ton of time between 21 and 22. Sorry but the deer are not in unit 21 like they once were...
As far as opti n, any of the 4th season tags that were brought back in the gunny or around eagle. Or possible 4th tags in some lesser units!
as far as his hunt. He needs to be very mobile. Travel all the time and run and gun a ton. It used to be hunt where a guy could sit in a big canyon for 3 days and see different bucks every day. Now if you sit in the same big canyon you may never see a buck. Spend time on the maps looking at access points, find roads that get you to or close to glossing points and glass a ton. If there are does look hard for a buck near by, if you get a good group of does then be sure to check back periodically.
I a, sitting on a bunch of points and had hoped for 21 but there is no way I am going to cash in anytime soon unless things really change!
Sat time you were on Rabbit Mountain? I can tell you the last 3 winters in the area I could count the number of deer on rabbit mountin on my fingers. That is during thanksgiving through winter. I I never said there were not some still around, but I believe a person hunting hard in many lesser demand units has just as good of a chance as they do in 21. Luckily it is not as bad as unit 10 yet but it has been in the dumps!
This past winter we never got a good inversion and the deer got slaughtered on the Douglas pass highway as the canyons never got cold and the deer were down. I spend pretty a ton of time between 21 and 22. Sorry but the deer are not in unit 21 like they once were...
As far as opti n, any of the 4th season tags that were brought back in the gunny or around eagle. Or possible 4th tags in some lesser units!
as far as his hunt. He needs to be very mobile. Travel all the time and run and gun a ton. It used to be hunt where a guy could sit in a big canyon for 3 days and see different bucks every day. Now if you sit in the same big canyon you may never see a buck. Spend time on the maps looking at access points, find roads that get you to or close to glossing points and glass a ton. If there are does look hard for a buck near by, if you get a good group of does then be sure to check back periodically.
I a, sitting on a bunch of points and had hoped for 21 but there is no way I am going to cash in anytime soon unless things really change!
S
StripBuckHunter
Guest
LAST EDITED ON May-31-15 AT 11:49PM (MST)[p]96,
Define for me......'what it once was'. Just which years are you referring to? I have a looooong memory and lived for many years in GJ.
I'm gonna throw you a curve ball right now. One you weren't expecting.
Those 2 bucks were taken.............and get this...........before it became famous. My buddy drew his as a NR with just a few points (as in 3 or 4). Not during the Huntin' Fool days of overhyped $10,000 LO tags.
In those days.....it wasn't known for very many big bucks. Same as today. However......my buddy saw one that was even bigger than his.............on Rabbit Mtn. It was a normal migration that year.
During normal Colorado winters........there isn't much difference between third and fourth season migration and rutting patterns. I'd take the third season myself cuz it's longer. With only 5 days.......vehicle trouble..........winter storm......and inaccessible roads/areas and your 19 pref point 5 day hunt just became a 2 day one.
Define for me......'what it once was'. Just which years are you referring to? I have a looooong memory and lived for many years in GJ.
I'm gonna throw you a curve ball right now. One you weren't expecting.
Those 2 bucks were taken.............and get this...........before it became famous. My buddy drew his as a NR with just a few points (as in 3 or 4). Not during the Huntin' Fool days of overhyped $10,000 LO tags.
In those days.....it wasn't known for very many big bucks. Same as today. However......my buddy saw one that was even bigger than his.............on Rabbit Mtn. It was a normal migration that year.
During normal Colorado winters........there isn't much difference between third and fourth season migration and rutting patterns. I'd take the third season myself cuz it's longer. With only 5 days.......vehicle trouble..........winter storm......and inaccessible roads/areas and your 19 pref point 5 day hunt just became a 2 day one.
JakeH
Long Time Member
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- 4,445
Strip, if those bucks were before it was famous (Im guessing early 2000's) you are making his point completely. Its safe to say your buddy was hunting it in its prime, just because it wasn't known for big bucks doesn't mean they wasn't there. Once it became famous that's when it started going down hill.
The last 5 years at least has seen a significant decrease in the size of bucks up there.
Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
The last 5 years at least has seen a significant decrease in the size of bucks up there.
Jake H. BIG BONE HUNTING Page on Facebook.
Founder
Founder Since 1999
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I'm not much fan of unit 21, but there are plenty of deer and some real good ones are killed every year out there. Lots of roads for sure. By that late season, many of them should be down low. Just cover as much ground as you can and look at as many bucks as you can.
Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
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Brian Latturner
MonsterMuleys.com
LIKE MonsterMuleys.com on Facebook!
S
StripBuckHunter
Guest
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-15 AT 03:43PM (MST)[p]LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-15 AT 03:16?PM (MST)
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-15 AT 03:11?PM (MST)
Definitely not trying to start an argument here. But I'm not sure I agree with some of the thoughts presented by others.
There were big bucks killed in the lower country of 21 during the late season when it was an OTC unit years ago before Colorado went to statewide limited quota......was it in 1999?. The older bucks existed in that unit because it's THICK and fairly rugged up high as well as in the middle ground and access isn't easy given some private plus a lack of roads like the lower country has.
When a G & F Dept suddenly reduces tag quota (from OTC or an existing limited quota management).............with the goal of growing an older age class.........it doesn't happen in one year. For deer.....it takes 3-4 years for those forkies and 2 year olds to reach maturity and grow good antler growth at 5 years old. And only then do more (notice I said more) big bucks start showing up in the unit. And then the younger crop keeps coming along......with more and mature bucks.
The subsequent years is what makes a unit famous with a greater number of big bucks being whacked for a few years. With the information age and magazines of today........a unit then attracts a better class of hunter and/or hunters who hold out for a biggun............and the mature bucks in the unit get shot out. Plus some of the 3-4 years olds that get whacked at the end of the hunt when hunters can't find a whopper.
Not to mention that numbers are way down almost everywhere due to the persistent drought leading to poor fawn recruitment.
Those bucks I posted were taken in 2002. My buddy's buck was 5.5 years old..........likely the result of the first crop of mature bucks that started showing up outta the new limited quota system for unit 21. 2002 is when it started getting hyped........and MANY big bucks were killed in the mid-to late 2000's.......until it fell apart for the reason I gave. I believe the peak years were 2004-2008, as I saw many pics in magazines and online those years.
Here's a mid-30's 202" typical taken in unit 21 during the 1990's.
LAST EDITED ON Jun-01-15 AT 03:11?PM (MST)
Definitely not trying to start an argument here. But I'm not sure I agree with some of the thoughts presented by others.
There were big bucks killed in the lower country of 21 during the late season when it was an OTC unit years ago before Colorado went to statewide limited quota......was it in 1999?. The older bucks existed in that unit because it's THICK and fairly rugged up high as well as in the middle ground and access isn't easy given some private plus a lack of roads like the lower country has.
When a G & F Dept suddenly reduces tag quota (from OTC or an existing limited quota management).............with the goal of growing an older age class.........it doesn't happen in one year. For deer.....it takes 3-4 years for those forkies and 2 year olds to reach maturity and grow good antler growth at 5 years old. And only then do more (notice I said more) big bucks start showing up in the unit. And then the younger crop keeps coming along......with more and mature bucks.
The subsequent years is what makes a unit famous with a greater number of big bucks being whacked for a few years. With the information age and magazines of today........a unit then attracts a better class of hunter and/or hunters who hold out for a biggun............and the mature bucks in the unit get shot out. Plus some of the 3-4 years olds that get whacked at the end of the hunt when hunters can't find a whopper.
Not to mention that numbers are way down almost everywhere due to the persistent drought leading to poor fawn recruitment.
Those bucks I posted were taken in 2002. My buddy's buck was 5.5 years old..........likely the result of the first crop of mature bucks that started showing up outta the new limited quota system for unit 21. 2002 is when it started getting hyped........and MANY big bucks were killed in the mid-to late 2000's.......until it fell apart for the reason I gave. I believe the peak years were 2004-2008, as I saw many pics in magazines and online those years.
Here's a mid-30's 202" typical taken in unit 21 during the 1990's.
S
StripBuckHunter
Guest
>Luckily it is not as
>bad as unit 10 yet
Elks96,
Here's my unit 10 buck @ 5.5 years old taken November 4, 2000 during the heydays of the unit. I found him during the summer when I scouted the heck outta the unit. Caught him nearby out in the cheatgrass open chasing does that cold morning. Started building points and gaining interest in this unit when I lived in Wyoming......moved to GJ......and drew this hunt with 6 points as a resident.
Knew all along 10 didn't have a great gene pool for big racks.....but was producing mature bucks. Figured I could find a decent one given the age class and numbers. There weren't very many of this size in the unit.........but a lot of mature bucks!!! With that many old bucks........figured I could find one of decent size.
>bad as unit 10 yet
Elks96,
Here's my unit 10 buck @ 5.5 years old taken November 4, 2000 during the heydays of the unit. I found him during the summer when I scouted the heck outta the unit. Caught him nearby out in the cheatgrass open chasing does that cold morning. Started building points and gaining interest in this unit when I lived in Wyoming......moved to GJ......and drew this hunt with 6 points as a resident.
Knew all along 10 didn't have a great gene pool for big racks.....but was producing mature bucks. Figured I could find a decent one given the age class and numbers. There weren't very many of this size in the unit.........but a lot of mature bucks!!! With that many old bucks........figured I could find one of decent size.
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
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- 5,407
Slick,
The success or failure of your hunt will depend on what you are expecting and how hard you hunt. The 3rd season is also much better if you have some early weather. If it is hot and dry, the rut will slow and it will be tough. But that is true in every late season hunt.
I had that tag in 2011. I planned to hunt the entire season and the rut got stronger every day we were there. I passed on a couple of 185 bucks early in the hunt but I ended up coming home with a 200" typical monster. The buck of my dreams.
I was probably lucky, but we hunted hard and made our luck.
We took a trailer and camped in the middle of the unit so we could be mobile and cover lots of country. I would do that again if I had the tag.
The unit is probably not as good as it once was, but most units aren't. If you hunt hard and the weather cooperates, you will have a chance at a nice buck or two. Maybe you will even come home with the buck of your dreams. Even in the best units a buck bigger than 185" is a pretty tall order. 21 is no different. Best of luck!
The success or failure of your hunt will depend on what you are expecting and how hard you hunt. The 3rd season is also much better if you have some early weather. If it is hot and dry, the rut will slow and it will be tough. But that is true in every late season hunt.
I had that tag in 2011. I planned to hunt the entire season and the rut got stronger every day we were there. I passed on a couple of 185 bucks early in the hunt but I ended up coming home with a 200" typical monster. The buck of my dreams.
I was probably lucky, but we hunted hard and made our luck.
We took a trailer and camped in the middle of the unit so we could be mobile and cover lots of country. I would do that again if I had the tag.
The unit is probably not as good as it once was, but most units aren't. If you hunt hard and the weather cooperates, you will have a chance at a nice buck or two. Maybe you will even come home with the buck of your dreams. Even in the best units a buck bigger than 185" is a pretty tall order. 21 is no different. Best of luck!
S
StripBuckHunter
Guest
LBH,
Great advice.
Any chance you can post a pic of your buck?
Great advice.
Any chance you can post a pic of your buck?
cmbbulldog
Very Active Member
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- 2,634
send me a pm with your number and I can help you out some.
Coloradoboy
Very Active Member
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LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-15 AT 05:49AM (MST)[p]Little Bighorn gives good advice. Strip I'm not sure where you were coming from with saying eagle county has a lot of private... Unit 44 has tons of public land. 35/36 yes, but it doesn't really belong in the conversation when there's 19 points in the quiver. Heck, no unit is worth 19 points for the matter. I still remember growing up in Meeker when my father and uncle could draw unit 21 or 10 every 2 or so years for the 3rd season and kill 180 plus inch deer like it wasn't a big deal. Man, to have those days back.....
Coloradoboy
Coloradoboy
cmbbulldog
Very Active Member
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- 2,634
>LAST EDITED ON Jun-02-15
>AT 05:49?AM (MST)
>
>Little Bighorn gives good advice. Strip
>I'm not sure where you
>were coming from with saying
>eagle county has a lot
>of private... Unit 44 has
>tons of public land. 35/36
>yes, but it doesn't really
>belong in the conversation when
>there's 19 points in the
>quiver. Heck, no unit is
>worth 19 points for the
>matter. I still remember growing
>up in Meeker when my
>father and uncle could draw
>unit 21 or 10 every
>2 or so years for
>the 3rd season and kill
>180 plus inch deer like
>it wasn't a big deal.
>Man, to have those days
>back.....
>
>Coloradoboy
Cole - I need you to show me around 35/36 sometime. I played around in there some last year...
>AT 05:49?AM (MST)
>
>Little Bighorn gives good advice. Strip
>I'm not sure where you
>were coming from with saying
>eagle county has a lot
>of private... Unit 44 has
>tons of public land. 35/36
>yes, but it doesn't really
>belong in the conversation when
>there's 19 points in the
>quiver. Heck, no unit is
>worth 19 points for the
>matter. I still remember growing
>up in Meeker when my
>father and uncle could draw
>unit 21 or 10 every
>2 or so years for
>the 3rd season and kill
>180 plus inch deer like
>it wasn't a big deal.
>Man, to have those days
>back.....
>
>Coloradoboy
Cole - I need you to show me around 35/36 sometime. I played around in there some last year...
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
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Lest anyone assumes so, I would not characterize bucks like this one as being common in 21, but he did come from there. In the six days of daylight to darkness hunting, we looked over a couple hundred bucks to find this guy.
S
StripBuckHunter
Guest
Woooooow LBH,
What a toadmeister!!! Congrats. I bet you are still thrilled.
And thanks for posting.........and proving me correct, hehe.
What a toadmeister!!! Congrats. I bet you are still thrilled.
And thanks for posting.........and proving me correct, hehe.
tx_packmule
Active Member
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- 804
I saw a buck that came out of there in '10 that went 193 that was basically just a giant 3pt with very small kickers off its 2s. The mass on that deer was out of this world. The next best buck that couple could scrounge up over the course of the week was a low 160s. Every unit has some big deer in it, just a matter of finding them over a short period of time.
S
StripBuckHunter
Guest
I cringe when hunters throw out score numbers on animals they've seen in the field. The average hunter cannot even come close to field scoring a muley. Some are worse than that.
My buddy in the photo I posted above has killed numerous whoppers 190+ all over the west. He's a certified scorer for several clubs......and a VERY accurate field scorer of big muleys.
His wife drew the Henry Mtn unit before it became hyped. They saw numerous 180 to 190+ bucks early in the hunt. He had her pass.....thinking he could find her a real whopper.
One typical buck he looked at several times and they moved in on one evening. They looked hard and passed......and noticed a couple other hunters had seen it too and had moved in closer than them but incredibly didn't shoot it.
They passed the other hunters just at dark on the way back to the truck. My surprised buddy asked them "why didn't you shoot that buck" as it was a buck of a lifetime for most hunters.
They replied "Oh, it was only 165 or so".
My buddy replied "Try 195".
My buddy in the photo I posted above has killed numerous whoppers 190+ all over the west. He's a certified scorer for several clubs......and a VERY accurate field scorer of big muleys.
His wife drew the Henry Mtn unit before it became hyped. They saw numerous 180 to 190+ bucks early in the hunt. He had her pass.....thinking he could find her a real whopper.
One typical buck he looked at several times and they moved in on one evening. They looked hard and passed......and noticed a couple other hunters had seen it too and had moved in closer than them but incredibly didn't shoot it.
They passed the other hunters just at dark on the way back to the truck. My surprised buddy asked them "why didn't you shoot that buck" as it was a buck of a lifetime for most hunters.
They replied "Oh, it was only 165 or so".
My buddy replied "Try 195".
S
StripBuckHunter
Guest
>
To you naysayers on this thread................is this buck worth 19 points?
To you naysayers on this thread................is this buck worth 19 points?
Coloradoboy
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,388
>>
>
>
>To you naysayers on this thread................is
>this buck worth 19 points?
>
>
That buck certainly is, but a buck like that VERY few and far between in 21. I can honestly count on one hand the amount of bucks I've seen in the 190 plus class in 21 the past 5 years. I've actually seen bigger deer more consistently in 22 than in 21 the past couple years. The last tag I had in 21 was in 2009. Hunted my A$$ of for 7 days and shot the second largest buck I saw that grossed 178. Went out the following year on a second choice tag in a completely different and killed a 187 and seen larger bucks in a weekend than I did in 7 days in 21. Kind of brought me to the light in some sense.
Coloradoboy
>
>
>To you naysayers on this thread................is
>this buck worth 19 points?
>
>
That buck certainly is, but a buck like that VERY few and far between in 21. I can honestly count on one hand the amount of bucks I've seen in the 190 plus class in 21 the past 5 years. I've actually seen bigger deer more consistently in 22 than in 21 the past couple years. The last tag I had in 21 was in 2009. Hunted my A$$ of for 7 days and shot the second largest buck I saw that grossed 178. Went out the following year on a second choice tag in a completely different and killed a 187 and seen larger bucks in a weekend than I did in 7 days in 21. Kind of brought me to the light in some sense.
Coloradoboy
tx_packmule
Active Member
- Messages
- 804
>I cringe when hunters throw out
>score numbers on animals they've
>seen in the field.
>The average hunter cannot even
>come close to field scoring
>a muley. Some are
>worse than that.
>
>My buddy in the photo I
>posted above has killed numerous
>whoppers 190+ all over the
>west. He's a certified
>scorer for several clubs......and a
>VERY accurate field scorer of
>big muleys.
>
>His wife drew the Henry Mtn
>unit before it became hyped.
> They saw numerous 180
>to 190+ bucks early in
>the hunt. He had
>her pass.....thinking he could find
>her a real whopper.
>
>One typical buck he looked at
>several times and they moved
>in on one evening.
>They looked hard and passed......and
>noticed a couple other hunters
>had seen it too and
>had moved in closer than
>them but incredibly didn't shoot
>it.
>
>They passed the other hunters just
>at dark on the way
>back to the truck.
>My surprised buddy asked them
>"why didn't you shoot that
>buck" as it was a
>buck of a lifetime for
>most hunters.
>
>They replied "Oh, it was only
>165 or so".
>
>My buddy replied "Try 195".
That's just what you tell random people. "Meh, little deer, there's bigger" so later in the hunt you can come back and shoot one like that if nothing else pans out.
>score numbers on animals they've
>seen in the field.
>The average hunter cannot even
>come close to field scoring
>a muley. Some are
>worse than that.
>
>My buddy in the photo I
>posted above has killed numerous
>whoppers 190+ all over the
>west. He's a certified
>scorer for several clubs......and a
>VERY accurate field scorer of
>big muleys.
>
>His wife drew the Henry Mtn
>unit before it became hyped.
> They saw numerous 180
>to 190+ bucks early in
>the hunt. He had
>her pass.....thinking he could find
>her a real whopper.
>
>One typical buck he looked at
>several times and they moved
>in on one evening.
>They looked hard and passed......and
>noticed a couple other hunters
>had seen it too and
>had moved in closer than
>them but incredibly didn't shoot
>it.
>
>They passed the other hunters just
>at dark on the way
>back to the truck.
>My surprised buddy asked them
>"why didn't you shoot that
>buck" as it was a
>buck of a lifetime for
>most hunters.
>
>They replied "Oh, it was only
>165 or so".
>
>My buddy replied "Try 195".
That's just what you tell random people. "Meh, little deer, there's bigger" so later in the hunt you can come back and shoot one like that if nothing else pans out.
tx_packmule
Active Member
- Messages
- 804
>To you naysayers on this thread................is
>this buck worth 19 points?
>
>
Depends on a person's situation. I'd have shot that buck and twice on Sunday, but quite a few folks would rather keep that amt of points and gamble with about a $4500 tag that year. There are a cpl guys in our group with over 20pts & they're painfully aware that there's no sure-thing 200"+ tag.
Congrats, LBH.
>this buck worth 19 points?
>
>
Depends on a person's situation. I'd have shot that buck and twice on Sunday, but quite a few folks would rather keep that amt of points and gamble with about a $4500 tag that year. There are a cpl guys in our group with over 20pts & they're painfully aware that there's no sure-thing 200"+ tag.
Congrats, LBH.
S
StripBuckHunter
Guest
In this day and age..........a public land hunt where you can look at hundreds of bucks in drivable, open, low, gentle, country........and see 3 bucks 180"-200"...........in 6 days.........is a great hunt.........for anywhere. But you gotta know what you're doing and what size bucks you're seeing.
Too many hunters are still spoiled from the good old days and think a public land hunt should be like the Strip, the Henry Mtns, the Jicarilla, or Old Mexico.
Too many hunters are still spoiled from the good old days and think a public land hunt should be like the Strip, the Henry Mtns, the Jicarilla, or Old Mexico.
Coloradoboy
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,388
>In this day and age..........a public
>land hunt where you can
>look at hundreds of bucks
>in drivable, open, low, gentle,
>country........and see 3 bucks 180"-200"...........in
>6 days.........is a great hunt.........for
>anywhere. But you gotta
>know what you're doing and
>what size bucks you're seeing.
>
>
>Too many hunters are still spoiled
>from the good old days
>and think a public land
>hunt should be like the
>Strip, the Henry Mtns, the
>Jicarilla, or Old Mexico.
Valid point... There isn't a unit in this state (public land) where 200 inch deer roam every where and jump in front of your truck. Whether it be a 0 or 19 pt unit.
Coloradoboy
>land hunt where you can
>look at hundreds of bucks
>in drivable, open, low, gentle,
>country........and see 3 bucks 180"-200"...........in
>6 days.........is a great hunt.........for
>anywhere. But you gotta
>know what you're doing and
>what size bucks you're seeing.
>
>
>Too many hunters are still spoiled
>from the good old days
>and think a public land
>hunt should be like the
>Strip, the Henry Mtns, the
>Jicarilla, or Old Mexico.
Valid point... There isn't a unit in this state (public land) where 200 inch deer roam every where and jump in front of your truck. Whether it be a 0 or 19 pt unit.
Coloradoboy
Hunters are a lot like stock market "players" always chasing after last years' returns, and as such are forever just behind the curve... By the time a unit gets to "famous" status you should already be looking elsewhere.
My back yard is already there, get a few Gov tag bucks whacked, see a few "TV guys" driving around, and you are already 2-3 years late for the 'good stuff".
This too shall pass the bible says as genetics are continuous and people will move on.
"We are missing a lot of hunter opportunity, a lot of people want to hunt our deer. People JUST WANT TO SHOOT TWO POINTS" (EMPHASIS MINE) said the regional mgr at the meeting!!
Quotes like that and you know you are in the late innings!
The farm team is getting a bit sparse around here after 25% increases year after year after year...
Most units could stand about an 80% reduction in permits, 'tis amazing what happens when you don't shoot them all, who could've imagined such a thing??
My back yard is already there, get a few Gov tag bucks whacked, see a few "TV guys" driving around, and you are already 2-3 years late for the 'good stuff".
This too shall pass the bible says as genetics are continuous and people will move on.
"We are missing a lot of hunter opportunity, a lot of people want to hunt our deer. People JUST WANT TO SHOOT TWO POINTS" (EMPHASIS MINE) said the regional mgr at the meeting!!
Quotes like that and you know you are in the late innings!
The farm team is getting a bit sparse around here after 25% increases year after year after year...
Most units could stand about an 80% reduction in permits, 'tis amazing what happens when you don't shoot them all, who could've imagined such a thing??
elks96
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,870
>LAST EDITED ON May-31-15
>AT 11:49?PM (MST)
>
>96,
>
>Define for me......'what it once was'.
> Just which years are
>you referring to? I
>have a looooong memory and
>lived for many years in
>GJ.
>
>I'm gonna throw you a curve
>ball right now. One
>you weren't expecting.
>
>Those 2 bucks were taken.............and get
>this...........before it became famous.
>My buddy drew his as
>a NR with just a
>few points (as in 3
>or 4). Not during
>the Huntin' Fool days of
>overhyped $10,000 LO tags.
>
>In those days.....it wasn't known for
>very many big bucks.
>Same as today. However......my
>buddy saw one that was
>even bigger than his.............on Rabbit
>Mtn. It was a
>normal migration that year.
>
>During normal Colorado winters........there isn't much
>difference between third and fourth
>season migration and rutting patterns.
> I'd take the third
>season myself cuz it's longer.
> With only 5 days.......vehicle
>trouble..........winter storm......and inaccessible roads/areas and
>your 19 pref point 5
>day hunt just became a
>2 day one.
What it once was.... You showed 2 decent deer. But there is nothing like the deer of old in the unit! I am talking the years fr m about 2002 to 2008! I knew those pictures were from a long time ago, no curve there at all, as the pic quality showed without a doubt that it was from when I was a kid!
You are also a moron for saying there is not a difference between a 4 th season and 3rd season tag! Which I am not sure why you brought it up but there is not a 4th season for 21 anyways.
I can tell you that prior to 2008 I could drive the unit for a 1/2 day and find anywhere from 7 to 8 bucks in the 170 to 180 range. In a full day I could easily find 8 to 9 in the 170 plus range and if I spent a couple day in the unit I could turn up or at least catch a glimpse of one that would stand out towards that 200 range.
The truth is the unit has been in drought mode for nearly 15 years. The range is destroyed in the unit and talking to an expert from the NrCS proved my point. He says that it would take a good 8 to 10 years of above average rain for the range to reach the same quality it was in the late 90s and early 2000s.
Furthermore when was the last time you were on magic rabbit mountain? Do tell... The last 3 years I have been on the mountain during the winter and I usually see 2 to 3 sets of deer tracks total! They just are not there because the range is in such poor condition! They are not migrating into the unit like they used to.
Also the only reason that the unit become inaccesible is because your a moron driving around in a stock truck and highway tires. You can access most of the unit through the winter the only exception being the really high stuff.
Quit actually my like you know everything because you had a couple friends kill some bucks there over 20 years ago! Get your ass in the unit and see what you find....
>AT 11:49?PM (MST)
>
>96,
>
>Define for me......'what it once was'.
> Just which years are
>you referring to? I
>have a looooong memory and
>lived for many years in
>GJ.
>
>I'm gonna throw you a curve
>ball right now. One
>you weren't expecting.
>
>Those 2 bucks were taken.............and get
>this...........before it became famous.
>My buddy drew his as
>a NR with just a
>few points (as in 3
>or 4). Not during
>the Huntin' Fool days of
>overhyped $10,000 LO tags.
>
>In those days.....it wasn't known for
>very many big bucks.
>Same as today. However......my
>buddy saw one that was
>even bigger than his.............on Rabbit
>Mtn. It was a
>normal migration that year.
>
>During normal Colorado winters........there isn't much
>difference between third and fourth
>season migration and rutting patterns.
> I'd take the third
>season myself cuz it's longer.
> With only 5 days.......vehicle
>trouble..........winter storm......and inaccessible roads/areas and
>your 19 pref point 5
>day hunt just became a
>2 day one.
What it once was.... You showed 2 decent deer. But there is nothing like the deer of old in the unit! I am talking the years fr m about 2002 to 2008! I knew those pictures were from a long time ago, no curve there at all, as the pic quality showed without a doubt that it was from when I was a kid!
You are also a moron for saying there is not a difference between a 4 th season and 3rd season tag! Which I am not sure why you brought it up but there is not a 4th season for 21 anyways.
I can tell you that prior to 2008 I could drive the unit for a 1/2 day and find anywhere from 7 to 8 bucks in the 170 to 180 range. In a full day I could easily find 8 to 9 in the 170 plus range and if I spent a couple day in the unit I could turn up or at least catch a glimpse of one that would stand out towards that 200 range.
The truth is the unit has been in drought mode for nearly 15 years. The range is destroyed in the unit and talking to an expert from the NrCS proved my point. He says that it would take a good 8 to 10 years of above average rain for the range to reach the same quality it was in the late 90s and early 2000s.
Furthermore when was the last time you were on magic rabbit mountain? Do tell... The last 3 years I have been on the mountain during the winter and I usually see 2 to 3 sets of deer tracks total! They just are not there because the range is in such poor condition! They are not migrating into the unit like they used to.
Also the only reason that the unit become inaccesible is because your a moron driving around in a stock truck and highway tires. You can access most of the unit through the winter the only exception being the really high stuff.
Quit actually my like you know everything because you had a couple friends kill some bucks there over 20 years ago! Get your ass in the unit and see what you find....
elks96
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,870
>>>
>>
>>
>>To you naysayers on this thread................is
>>this buck worth 19 points?
>>
>>
>
>
>That buck certainly is, but a
>buck like that VERY few
>and far between in 21.
>I can honestly count on
>one hand the amount of
>bucks I've seen in the
>190 plus class in 21
>the past 5 years. I've
>actually seen bigger deer more
>consistently in 22 than in
>21 the past couple years.
>The last tag I had
>in 21 was in 2009.
>Hunted my A$$ of for
>7 days and shot the
>second largest buck I saw
>that grossed 178. Went out
>the following year on a
>second choice tag in a
>completely different and killed a
>187 and seen larger bucks
>in a weekend than I
>did in 7 days in
>21. Kind of brought me
>to the light in some
>sense.
>
>Coloradoboy
That is exactly the point. The unit is nothing like it once was, the deer and the range are way down! To have deer you need food, the unit is horrible shape! This spring haves helped some, but the reason why other units are rebounding better than 21 is due to the horrible range conditions. There are fewer and fewer deer migrating in unit 21 every year. The number of town deer in Rangely is down as well!
Also one good buck kill 5 years ago does not prove #####! It is a great buck and when it was posted I was extremely impressed. But at the same time i also know that totale deer numbers are down, range quality is down, mature buck numbers are down in unit 21.
I also know that the idea of Eagle being full of private is bull crap, and gunny hunts will be a ways out until they can improve but any of those hunts and units are capable producing great bucks!
Of and by the way I could show you a pic of a 200 plus monster killed in a 0 to 1 point unt! However that does not prove anything about the overall quality of the unit or the hunt!
>>
>>
>>To you naysayers on this thread................is
>>this buck worth 19 points?
>>
>>
>
>
>That buck certainly is, but a
>buck like that VERY few
>and far between in 21.
>I can honestly count on
>one hand the amount of
>bucks I've seen in the
>190 plus class in 21
>the past 5 years. I've
>actually seen bigger deer more
>consistently in 22 than in
>21 the past couple years.
>The last tag I had
>in 21 was in 2009.
>Hunted my A$$ of for
>7 days and shot the
>second largest buck I saw
>that grossed 178. Went out
>the following year on a
>second choice tag in a
>completely different and killed a
>187 and seen larger bucks
>in a weekend than I
>did in 7 days in
>21. Kind of brought me
>to the light in some
>sense.
>
>Coloradoboy
That is exactly the point. The unit is nothing like it once was, the deer and the range are way down! To have deer you need food, the unit is horrible shape! This spring haves helped some, but the reason why other units are rebounding better than 21 is due to the horrible range conditions. There are fewer and fewer deer migrating in unit 21 every year. The number of town deer in Rangely is down as well!
Also one good buck kill 5 years ago does not prove #####! It is a great buck and when it was posted I was extremely impressed. But at the same time i also know that totale deer numbers are down, range quality is down, mature buck numbers are down in unit 21.
I also know that the idea of Eagle being full of private is bull crap, and gunny hunts will be a ways out until they can improve but any of those hunts and units are capable producing great bucks!
Of and by the way I could show you a pic of a 200 plus monster killed in a 0 to 1 point unt! However that does not prove anything about the overall quality of the unit or the hunt!
elks96
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 3,870
>Hunters are a lot like stock
>market "players" always chasing after
>last years' returns, and as
>such are forever just behind
>the curve... By the
>time a unit gets to
>"famous" status you should already
>be looking elsewhere.
>
> My back yard is already
>there, get a few Gov
>tag bucks whacked, see a
>few "TV guys" driving around,
>and you are already 2-3
>years late for the 'good
>stuff".
>
>This too shall pass the bible
>says as genetics are continuous
>and people will move on.
>
>
>"We are missing a lot of
>hunter opportunity, a lot of
>people want to hunt our
>deer. People JUST WANT
>TO SHOOT TWO POINTS"
>(EMPHASIS MINE) said the
>regional mgr at the meeting!!
>
>
>Quotes like that and you know
>you are in the late
>innings!
>
>The farm team is getting a
>bit sparse around here after
>25% increases year after year
>after year...
>
>Most units could stand about an
>80% reduction in permits, 'tis
>amazing what happens when you
>don't shoot them all, who
>could've imagined such a thing??
>
Squirrel,
I am amazed that I found a post where I agree with you completely! The hype of the big units is unreal. People are always chasing yesterday's buck. I did not look at the numbers, but I a, willing to bet there was a decent jump in the number of guys applying for the Mesa units after that monster was killed last year.
I also get pissed when I hear managers talking about opportunity/funds by having so many tags that everyone has to shot 2 points because none of the bucks have a chance to grow. An 80 percent reduction is probably further than I would go, but any reduction would help! Sadly they increased tags in most units around here... All about money!
>market "players" always chasing after
>last years' returns, and as
>such are forever just behind
>the curve... By the
>time a unit gets to
>"famous" status you should already
>be looking elsewhere.
>
> My back yard is already
>there, get a few Gov
>tag bucks whacked, see a
>few "TV guys" driving around,
>and you are already 2-3
>years late for the 'good
>stuff".
>
>This too shall pass the bible
>says as genetics are continuous
>and people will move on.
>
>
>"We are missing a lot of
>hunter opportunity, a lot of
>people want to hunt our
>deer. People JUST WANT
>TO SHOOT TWO POINTS"
>(EMPHASIS MINE) said the
>regional mgr at the meeting!!
>
>
>Quotes like that and you know
>you are in the late
>innings!
>
>The farm team is getting a
>bit sparse around here after
>25% increases year after year
>after year...
>
>Most units could stand about an
>80% reduction in permits, 'tis
>amazing what happens when you
>don't shoot them all, who
>could've imagined such a thing??
>
Squirrel,
I am amazed that I found a post where I agree with you completely! The hype of the big units is unreal. People are always chasing yesterday's buck. I did not look at the numbers, but I a, willing to bet there was a decent jump in the number of guys applying for the Mesa units after that monster was killed last year.
I also get pissed when I hear managers talking about opportunity/funds by having so many tags that everyone has to shot 2 points because none of the bucks have a chance to grow. An 80 percent reduction is probably further than I would go, but any reduction would help! Sadly they increased tags in most units around here... All about money!
littlebighorn
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,407
Even with tag increases, point creep continues. Too many of us want to hunt a 180+ deer every year, and with the number of hunters and limited resources, it can't happen. And continuing to add another point every year doesn't help us lower our expectations.
I actually cashed in 18 points four years ago on my 21 buck. I was tired of waiting for the Basin to come back from winter die off, and I figured it wasn't getting any better, any time soon.
I was lucky. Others are not.
Mikey, that buck was DIY on public land. He was hanging in a not so likely place for a big buck. We hunted hard non-stop. I was also prepared to shoot a "cape buck" on the last day if I needed to. (I have an old set of horns I want to mount)
So Slick, like I said, if you go with your eyes wide open that you probably won't find a buck like mine, but you go to have a good time, hunt hard, and know it's about the experience and not the numbers, you will have a great hunt.
Best of luck
I actually cashed in 18 points four years ago on my 21 buck. I was tired of waiting for the Basin to come back from winter die off, and I figured it wasn't getting any better, any time soon.
I was lucky. Others are not.
Mikey, that buck was DIY on public land. He was hanging in a not so likely place for a big buck. We hunted hard non-stop. I was also prepared to shoot a "cape buck" on the last day if I needed to. (I have an old set of horns I want to mount)
So Slick, like I said, if you go with your eyes wide open that you probably won't find a buck like mine, but you go to have a good time, hunt hard, and know it's about the experience and not the numbers, you will have a great hunt.
Best of luck
Any advice as to where to go? I have a 21 3rd season mule deer tag and would love some pointers of where to go.
liecabucks
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 1,223
Musta snagged one of those 7 returned tags last week eh?
Haha maybe.
nripepi
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,183
How much did it cost ya?
But if anyone has any advice I’d very much appreciate it. I’m not trying to get secret spots just maybe a pointer of where to look. I’d be very happy shooting a mature buck and am not afraid to eat tag soup if needed. I also am a young kid who will put miles on my boots if needed.
Thanks for the advice, it’s not like the unit isn’t 87% NF and BLM
tailchasers
Long Time Member
- Messages
- 5,512
Fill your fuel tank and coffee thermos everyday and go for a drive. Hardly any secrets about 21.
goforbroke
Active Member
- Messages
- 714
Congrats on the tag. You beat me and a bunch of other people to the tag! I have never been on the unit. Wish you luck and I hope you post a report!Thanks for the advice, it’s not like the unit isn’t 87% NF and BLM
Sweet thank you for the advice
coloradoman
Very Active Member
- Messages
- 2,459
If those numbers are correct… guess what the other 13% is?Thanks for the advice, it’s not like the unit isn’t 87% NF and BLM
