Thermal Binoculars and Scopes

hawkbill

hawkbill

Long Time Member
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3,166
I really no nothing about these, I hear a lot of guys are using them. A friend of mine ran into some guys and they were using them in daylight, there were some Deer standing out in the sage and when he looked through them the Deer showed
Up very white and there were more white Deer images he had not seen. The good ones are quite exspensive. I hear guys are out glassing all night. What’s your thoughts.
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I have a buddy who has the good ones but not the best ones. When it’s real hot they don’t work the best in daylight. If you get in a hill and it’s still dark they’re awesome. For coues in Mexico we used the expensive ones someone else had and they were glassing bucks up until 9. In the velvet you can see the antlers real well. When they’re hardhorned you can tell they’re a buck and that’s about all.
 
From what I hear and what I see, fairchase in Idaho doesn’t mean much, big Deer mean more. I have not run into any hunters that have said I cannot enter this Deer because I used thermal night vision. I know more guys going to buy them. It sure sounds like a lot of guides and outfitters use them.
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Banned just like e bikes in certain areas. But once one learns the ebike fine is only $150.00 IF they get caught, they continue to break the rules. What is the fine for using IR technology?
 
hawkbill said:
From what I hear and what I see, fairchase in Idaho doesn’t mean much, big Deer mean more. I have not run into any hunters that have said I cannot enter this Deer because I used thermal night vision. I know more guys going to buy them. It sure sounds like a lot of guides and outfitters use them.View attachment 162018
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This website is not correct about Utah. Thermal imaging is illegal in Utah.

And outside of the law, I think the use of it is total BS. People should go hunt high fence operations if they need to be guaranteed a kill this much.
 
Up next, banning guns for hunting because it gives the hunter an unfair advantage. That’s not fair chase to use a gun that lets you shoot an animal over 50 yards. Heck, we should go back to using rocks and cliffs to kill animals. Now that’s fair!

Give me a break. We regulate the taking of animals through tag allotments. Let people hunt the way they want to.

Thermal and night vision is just another example of humans doing what we do best, using our brain to solve problems. In this case, locating game at night or in difficult to see situations. It should not be against the law.
 
Yeah thermals are for when you are trying to be unsportting. Thermals with infared lasers/ thermal scopes and night vision are awesome and should be available to free men. Yet they are for fighting. I could see them for killing animals that are predating livestock or culling ect, but traditional fair chase hunting and thermals do not go together full stop
 
Think I read that they are illegal in AZ too. But I can guarantee you these top guides that have multiple trucks driving around all night spotlighting are using them.
 
iowacity said:
Up next, banning guns for hunting because it gives the hunter an unfair advantage. That’s not fair chase to use a gun that lets you shoot an animal over 50 yards. Heck, we should go back to using rocks and cliffs to kill animals. Now that’s fair!

Give me a break. We regulate the taking of animals through tag allotments. Let people hunt the way they want to.

Thermal and night vision is just another example of humans doing what we do best, using our brain to solve problems. In this case, locating game at night or in difficult to see situations. It should not be against the law.
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How wild to so arrogantly defend thermal/nightvision as an aid in taking wildlife. Obviously we are all entitled to our own opinions. Mine happens to be that you should be embarrassed if you use one as you have zero respect for hunting fair game.
 
I have a good set, I have only used them for recovery efforts.

When I hunted England they use them for everything, it was nice to be able to scan a field before walking into it and possibly spooking everything out.
 
Thermal is awesome, but they have zero place in hunting big game. 💯 cheating. Taking away an animal’s major defense, when they turn reclusive and go nocturnal. This should without question be strictly regulated in every state.
Sadly I’m sure many outfitters utilize them. Along with many known big buck killers.
As far as coyotes, I’m all for it. Thermal is pretty amazing.
 
For hunting, thermal scopes should be predator hunting only, no big game. Binos, I could care less, they don't make anyone a better hunter or shot so eat your heart out.
 
iowacity said:
Up next, banning guns for hunting because it gives the hunter an unfair advantage. That’s not fair chase to use a gun that lets you shoot an animal over 50 yards. Heck, we should go back to using rocks and cliffs to kill animals. Now that’s fair!

Give me a break. We regulate the taking of animals through tag allotments. Let people hunt the way they want to.

Thermal and night vision is just another example of humans doing what we do best, using our brain to solve problems. In this case, locating game at night or in difficult to see situations. It should not be against the law.
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I normally try to stay out of these but... you sir have touched a nerve.

Yes, animals are managed by quotas. However, those quotas are set based on historical % of success. As tools progress that make hunters more successful and percentage of success increases, tags have to be reduced. That lowers opportunity and, imo, starts to eliminate the reasons most of us hunt. If you just want to go kill something, there are plenty of 100% guaranteed high fence hunts.
 
MountainSqwabler said:
For hunting, thermal scopes should be predator hunting only, no big game. Binos, I could care less, they don't make anyone a better hunter or shot so eat your heart out.
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I have to disagree. An outfitter we were with a few years ago on a hunt in Utah had these. In the early morning hours before sun up they helped locate animals. But where they really shined, was after the sun was us but it was still cold out. It sure made finding deer in a thick oak brush canyon, much easier!
 
I like all you guys that say there is no place in Fair chase . I call BS from what I hear dam near everyone crazy for a big Buck has a pair or used them. Boy they really must be something to watch a big Buck over an apple pile. Homer you are correct, I am late to the party, I had no Idea there were so many outfitters guides and hot shots using them. I’m glad I spent many a night out with my dogs or sleeping on an animal without that trash
 
Blackie6 said:
I have to disagree. An outfitter we were with a few years ago on a hunt in Utah had these. In the early morning hours before sun up they helped locate animals. But where they really shined, was after the sun was us but it was still cold out. It sure made finding deer in a thick oak brush canyon, much easier!
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Ok. And? You found the animals. Now take your non thermal scope and make the ethical shot
 
I’ve got to agree with most of you guys. If you can’t find them with binos then you’re not a good hunter. If your fine with being an inferior hunter than go right ahead…..I guess….losers 😁
 
MountainSqwabler said:
Ok. And? You found the animals. Now take your non thermal scope and make the ethical shot
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That’s not the point. Finding the animals in a thick canyon is half the battle. When it’s 10am and 30D outside, you can use thermal to locate bedded animals that you wouldn’t see other wise. Allowing you to then make a play with your “non thermal scope”.
 
Blackie6 said:
I have to disagree. An outfitter we were with a few years ago on a hunt in Utah had these. In the early morning hours before sun up they helped locate animals. But where they really shined, was after the sun was us but it was still cold out. It sure made finding deer in a thick oak brush canyon, much easier!
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Uh....no shiit.....the point about fairchase???
 
The problem with all the fair chase arguments is who gets to decide what is fair chase? We have a lot of agreements in this thread regarding thermal, but not everyone.

Hunting is a very personal thing. We all take enjoyment in hunting, but many of us in different ways. Some people just want to kill an animal to put meet in the freezer (that’s me on many hunts). Some people want the biggest animal on the mountain or they are happy going home empty handed. Some people love the process of hunting and killing does not have to happen for them to enjoy themselves (this is also me sometimes). Some people are very disappointed if they don’t fill their tag, to the point that it isn’t fun.

Some people like archery, others rifle, etc. When we start putting restrictions on ourselves based on what we perceive as an ethical means of take, we are just reducing individual freedom. I get restrictions to manage herd size and health so that we can continue to hunt. I get special seasons for folks who want to use primitive technology. I don’t get telling people how to enjoy THEIR hunt.

I see the thermal argument as no different than people complaining about long range shooting, or using too small of a cartridge. I mean, what about rangefinders? Talk about a major boost to success rates for all weapon types, but we are all accustomed to it now so it’s seen as “normal”. In the 90s, some people complained about them being unsportsmanlike as well. It’s none of your business as you can choose not to hunt with those tools unless we are talking specifically restricted primitive weapons seasons designed to limit success.

We should be fighting to keep as much of our hunting privileges as possible, including the tools we use.
 
I don’t know what the latest generation the Navy uses, but they are straight up daylight.

Without a strobe, it’s just a matter of time before someone get plunked.
 
iowacity said:
The problem with all the fair chase arguments is who gets to decide what is fair chase? We have a lot of agreements in this thread regarding thermal, but not everyone.

Hunting is a very personal thing. We all take enjoyment in hunting, but many of us in different ways. Some people just want to kill an animal to put meet in the freezer (that’s me on many hunts). Some people want the biggest animal on the mountain or they are happy going home empty handed. Some people love the process of hunting and killing does not have to happen for them to enjoy themselves (this is also me sometimes). Some people are very disappointed if they don’t fill their tag, to the point that it isn’t fun.

Some people like archery, others rifle, etc. When we start putting restrictions on ourselves based on what we perceive as an ethical means of take, we are just reducing individual freedom. I get restrictions to manage herd size and health so that we can continue to hunt. I get special seasons for folks who want to use primitive technology. I don’t get telling people how to enjoy THEIR hunt.

I see the thermal argument as no different than people complaining about long range shooting, or using too small of a cartridge. I mean, what about rangefinders? Talk about a major boost to success rates for all weapon types, but we are all accustomed to it now so it’s seen as “normal”. In the 90s, some people complained about them being unsportsmanlike as well. It’s none of your business as you can choose not to hunt with those tools unless we are talking specifically restricted primitive weapons seasons designed to limit success.

We should be fighting to keep as much of our hunting privileges as possible, including the tools we use.
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Illegal in Nevada as well.

https://casetext.com/regulation/nev...ot possess,(b) Electronically enhanced light-
 
iowacity said:
The problem with all the fair chase arguments is who gets to decide what is fair chase? We have a lot of agreements in this thread regarding thermal, but not everyone.

Hunting is a very personal thing. We all take enjoyment in hunting, but many of us in different ways. Some people just want to kill an animal to put meet in the freezer (that’s me on many hunts). Some people want the biggest animal on the mountain or they are happy going home empty handed. Some people love the process of hunting and killing does not have to happen for them to enjoy themselves (this is also me sometimes). Some people are very disappointed if they don’t fill their tag, to the point that it isn’t fun.

Some people like archery, others rifle, etc. When we start putting restrictions on ourselves based on what we perceive as an ethical means of take, we are just reducing individual freedom. I get restrictions to manage herd size and health so that we can continue to hunt. I get special seasons for folks who want to use primitive technology. I don’t get telling people how to enjoy THEIR hunt.

I see the thermal argument as no different than people complaining about long range shooting, or using too small of a cartridge. I mean, what about rangefinders? Talk about a major boost to success rates for all weapon types, but we are all accustomed to it now so it’s seen as “normal”. In the 90s, some people complained about them being unsportsmanlike as well. It’s none of your business as you can choose not to hunt with those tools unless we are talking specifically restricted primitive weapons seasons designed to limit success.

We should be fighting to keep as much of our hunting privileges as possible, including the tools we use.
Click to expand...

Well said.

Love it or hate it, technology keeps moving the line to improve our ability to take game. We as individuals choose what technology we will use.

Agree or disagree with them, state game agencies keep evaluating the technological improvements to determine if they are appropriate for their state.
 
Anyone who thinks thermal isn’t cheating has not used them or been around them. You can literally spot an elk at 3 miles away on a broken timber face and then see what it is with a spotter. Deer 2 miles Easily! Not just animals in the open but all animals if you can see a 1” strip of fur in the timber it will light up on the screen like a lightbulb.

Thermal is literally like having x ray vision during the night, morning or on a cloudy day.
 
NPHunter said:
Anyone who thinks thermal isn’t cheating has not used them or been around them. You can literally spot an elk at 3 miles away on a broken timber face and then see what it is with a spotter. Deer 2 miles Easily! Not just animals in the open but all animals if you can see a 1” strip of fur in the timber it will light up on the screen like a lightbulb.

Thermal is literally like having x ray vision during the night, morning or on a cloudy day.
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If they are that effective that is ridiculous. Completely cheating. I'm so glad states have outlawed them.
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
If they are that effective that is ridiculous. Completely cheating. I'm so glad states have outlawed them.
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Not in my experience. I had one for several years. They are great in certain scenarios, but they are not any more of a game changer as say scopes with dialing turrets, range finders, or compound bows. In my use, rangefinders and dialing scopes far increased success rate exponentially more than thermal optics ever did.
 
NPHunter said:
Anyone who thinks thermal isn’t cheating has not used them or been around them. You can literally spot an elk at 3 miles away on a broken timber face and then see what it is with a spotter. Deer 2 miles Easily! Not just animals in the open but all animals if you can see a 1” strip of fur in the timber it will light up on the screen like a lightbulb.

Thermal is literally like having x ray vision during the night, morning or on a cloudy day.
Click to expand...
3 miles! Those are some high end 15k plus thermals (probably a lot more than that). Good for the guy that can afford that! High end Thermals that most guys are using are in the 3-7k range. Which puts them out of reach for most of us from a practical standpoint. A good pair of binoculars and a spotting scope are a better use of that money before a thermal. Those types of thermal units have a detection range of around 1000-1500 yards. Mind you that’s detection range. You can see it’s a living animal, but you can’t see what it is. It could be an elk, horse, cow, etc. A spotting scope can actually pick out an elk at 3 miles.

The cheaper thermal monoculars that a lot of guys were running before being outlawed in most western states had detection ranges considerably shorter (like 500 yards) with very poor temperate range sensitivity, meaning you had to be very close to see any amount of detail to know what you were looking at.

I’ve actually used thermal quite a lot, and am familiar with the technology and its limitations. They are not the death ray they are being made out to be in this thread.
 
Iowa- There is a difference in the technology you are comparing. Compound bows, rangefinders, etc, are to aid in a more ethical harvest of an animal you have already fairly outsmarted in order to locate and/or pursue (Fair Chase).

Thermal imagery is an incredibly unfair method for locating animals, removing the "fair chase" from the equation.
 
iowacity said:
3 miles! Those are some high end 15k plus thermals (probably a lot more than that). Good for the guy that can afford that! High end Thermals that most guys are using are in the 3-7k range. Which puts them out of reach for most of us from a practical standpoint. A good pair of binoculars and a spotting scope are a better use of that money before a thermal. Those types of thermal units have a detection range of around 1000-1500 yards. Mind you that’s detection range. You can see it’s a living animal, but you can’t see what it is. It could be an elk, horse, cow, etc. A spotting scope can actually pick out an elk at 3 miles.

The cheaper thermal monoculars that a lot of guys were running before being outlawed in most western states had detection ranges considerably shorter (like 500 yards) with very poor temperate range sensitivity, meaning you had to be very close to see any amount of detail to know what you were looking at.

I’ve actually used thermal quite a lot, and am familiar with the technology and its limitations. They are not the death ray they are being made out to be in this thread.
Click to expand...

Lol, not fair chase at all and 100% cheating. I also know their limitations and ability’s and have used them a lot at work and in the woods.

They are fun to use and make scouting super easy, shed hunting becomes much easier when you can find a bedded buck in the brush you would never pick out with a spotter.

Finding bedded deer and elk across a drainage in the timber bedded in a tree root. You’re 100% right about not being able to tell if it’s a deer, elk or whatever at long range but paired with a decent spotter you can find 50X more stuff than with a spotter alone and find it so much quicker and easier.

You can literally pick apart an entire basin in open country in 30 seconds and see 100% of the animals in it or lack of animals. Walk a ridge line, scan up into a drainage, no Christmas lights, move to the next, you can cover dozens and drainages this way very quickly and efficiently. If you find animals you still need a spotter to see exactly what they are but you can eliminate places with no animals almost instantly in the right conditions.
 
DaveD said:
I normally try to stay out of these but... you sir have touched a nerve.

Yes, animals are managed by quotas. However, those quotas are set based on historical % of success. As tools progress that make hunters more successful and percentage of success increases, tags have to be reduced. That lowers opportunity and, imo, starts to eliminate the reasons most of us hunt. If you just want to go kill something, there are plenty of 100% guaranteed high fence hunts.
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Killing “something” is not a problem for most of us. Its killing the “biggest” and before someone else does. Camp on it and at first light its in the crosshairs…..assuming some will wait til then.
 

Ya....because this is what every Tom, D!ck and Harry needs hanging around his neck.

Spotting rabbits at 500 yards in the pitch-black darkness...Lord have mercy..I feel like I am more of an animal's rights activist than an actual animal rights activists these days.....I feel sorry for animals. There is no escape.
 
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