Altitude Sickness

RutCrazed

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I read a couple of older posts about altitude sickness but just wanted to get one more round of opinions before heading out in a couple of weeks. Last year I took my son back to Utah to hunt deer with family. I was born and raised there, so no problems, but my son was born in Kansas and got altitude sickness the first day of the hunt. We live at 1,000' elevation and were hunting above 9,000'. We made the drive in one day and it wiped him out. When I realized what it was we went back down to 5,000' so he could recover, but it still took several days.
Based on what I have read, getting something from the Dr. and hydration is probably the way to go, but also saw Rolaids, Athletes Advantage, Motion Eaze...
I am looking for any and all help, it was tough watching him struggle with it last time.
 
I ask that question when I got a Colorado Mtn Goat tag. Posted link below. A lot of good information from others. I have never had a problem before but did not want to chance an OIL tag. Also been a while since I have hiked at 10k to 14k feet. Getting Altitude sickness has nothing to do about how good of shape you are in. Also Stay away from alcohol. Acclamation to the altitude is important.
Understand it affects everyone differently. I took the medication anyways, so did my daughter and friend.
I had no altitude problems. My daughter basically would start to get minor symptoms and headaches at 10K.
Found my Mtn Goat and hiked up over 12k feet a to kill it. My friend was pushing for us to get all of the Mtn Goat off the mountain that night in one load which we did. Once we hiked out I found out he started getting sick at around 11k feet on the way up. He did not think he could make a hike up again the next day. He did not tell me on the way up because he did not want to bail out on the stalk. I told him that could of been an issue.

 
I ask that question when I got a Colorado Mtn Goat tag. Posted link below. A lot of good information from others. I have never had a problem before but did not want to chance an OIL tag. Also been a while since I have hiked at 10k to 14k feet. Getting Altitude sickness has nothing to do about how good of shape you are in. Also Stay away from alcohol. Acclamation to the altitude is important.
Understand it affects everyone differently. I took the medication anyways, so did my daughter and friend.
I had no altitude problems. My daughter basically would start to get minor symptoms and headaches at 10K.
Found my Mtn Goat and hiked up over 12k feet a to kill it. My friend was pushing for us to get all of the Mtn Goat off the mountain that night in one load which we did. Once we hiked out I found out he started getting sick at around 11k feet on the way up. He did not think he could make a hike up again the next day. He did not tell me on the way up because he did not want to bail out on the stalk. I told him that could of been an issue.

It took a while to diagnose it at first because my son is in such good shape, compared to us old fat guys, we just figured he had motion sickness or even the flu.
Thanks for the link. I will give the doctor a call and see if I can get him some meds for this time around.
 
I have only gotten it once when I camped over 12,000 feet and had a couple of beers.

I live at 6700 feet and regularly hunt over 12,000 feet. I also mostly camp above 10,000 feet.

Camping lower will help and no alcohol.

Ken
 
Altitude sickness can hit hard, especially if you are not used to higher elevations. Hydration is key, along with taking it slow when ascending. Have you tried using Diamox or ibuprofen to manage symptoms? Acclimatization is essential, if possible, spend a day or two at intermediate altitudes.
 
Ibuprofen, liquid IV, and don't over do it have been the biggest things for the first few days. Liquid IV sugarless is your best friend in the whole world for hydration.
 
Thanks everyone for the suggestions and advice. I will call the dr today and see if I can get him a prescription for Diamax.
I think our plan is to leave Kansas (1000' elev) drive all day, sleep at 5,600 and then move to camp at 7,600 and sleep there every night and hunt higher.
 
I was an Aerospace Physiologist for many years and taught physiologic adaptation to altitude.

Hydration, acclimitization, limit alcohol, limit physical exertion the first couple days, especially if you are 50+, doctors prescription for diamox.

Pedialyte above Gatorade.


There is some *theory* that rolaids and/or Alka seltzer may help.

I would not waste time with altitude training masks or canned oxygen. I have never read or heard of any professional peer reviewed study which indicates that either of those two work.
 
Agree, those oxygen cans they sell are a scam.
When talking to the Dr. who prescribed me altitude meds we discussed the O2 cans. He said they have great advertising. Said a Medical O2 cylinder to use at night or in case of emergency would be worth it if you had space for it.
He did a test on himself running hard on a treadmill and monitored his O2 level. He said the cans did not change his O2 level at all.
 
Got this my first year in Colorado up at Leadville. The locals prescribed me water, aspirin, and a packet of sugar.. And said they don't want to see me without a water bottle. Still took 2 full days to feel somewhat better. It sucked.
 
Got this my first year in Colorado up at Leadville. The locals prescribed me water, aspirin, and a packet of sugar.. And said they don't want to see me without a water bottle. Still took 2 full days to feel somewhat better. It sucked.
Pretty sure that was his problem last year. I think he went in dehydrated and then couldn't keep anything down to get re-hydrated until we moved him lower
 
Had it a couple times. Treated them the same as a migraine headache. A couple mtn dews, a double dose of ibuprofen and plenty of water.
 
Living at 8000 feet I can guarantee you that the better shape you are in the less chance you have of getting the sickness. Your cardio and muscular endurance will be the difference maker.
 
Acclimate! Like johnnycake said take your time stop half way up and acclimate. Growing up in Hawaii hunting pigs and goats between 500-2500 feet elevation and then chasing sheep between 4000 and 12000 ft elevation you can drive that trip in less than thee hours, but it’s not good on the body, and on your way up to taller mountain Mauna Kea, they have a visitor station at 9200ft that they highly recommend you stop and acclimate your body before making the ascent. 🤙🏽
 
Living at 8000 feet I can guarantee you that the better shape you are in the less chance you have of getting the sickness. Your cardio and muscular endurance will be the difference maker.
This is simply not true. Your cardio and muscular endurance have zero affect on how oxygen is affected by the change in barometric pressure.

"Athletes and High-Altitude Illness

Exposure to the hypoxic altitude environment may result in three main illnesses. These are acute mountain sickness (AMS), high altitude cerebral edema (HACE), and high-altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE).16 AMS is the least severe form and occurs in approximately 10-25% of unacclimatized persons at altitudes >2500m. The risk of HACE or HAPE typically occurs at elevations >3000m. Important to the care of athletes is that a high level of aerobic fitness is not protective against development. Furthermore, exercise can exacerbate symptoms of AMS and any degree of high-altitude illness will almost certainly affect athletic performance."
 
Living at 8000 feet I can guarantee you that the better shape you are in the less chance you have of getting the sickness. Your cardio and muscular endurance will be the difference maker.
He plays sports and hunts and fishes all year long, probably has 0% body fat and it crushed him. My fat a$$ was fine, except gasping for air climbing into the truck! 😆
 
This is simply not true. Your cardio and muscular endurance have zero affect on how oxygen is affected by the change in barometric pressure.

"Athletes and High-Altitude Illness

Exposure to the hypoxic altitude environment may result in three main illnesses. These are acute mountain sickness (AMS), high altitude cerebral edema (HACE), and high-altitude pulmonary edema (HAPE).16 AMS is the least severe form and occurs in approximately 10-25% of unacclimatized persons at altitudes >2500m. The risk of HACE or HAPE typically occurs at elevations >3000m. Important to the care of athletes is that a high level of aerobic fitness is not protective against development. Furthermore, exercise can exacerbate symptoms of AMS and any degree of high-altitude illness will almost certainly affect athletic performance."
Take it right from the guy who climbed Everest 35+ times.

IMG_9199.png
 
Being fit and in good health has everything to you with your ability to climb better and nothing to do altitude sickness.

View attachment 160465

True

I live at elevation and trail run multiple times a week up to 25km each time. I had never experienced altitude sickness before a Mtn Goat hunt with a friend in Montana a few years ago. It was horrible, and wasn't at an elevation much higher than I train regularly. I attribute it to exhaustion from a long day of travel and poor diet and hydration during travel and the pack in.

My uncle, who was a Ranger in the Tetons and on Denali and literally has a route up the Grand Teton named after him and has climbed many of the named peaks in the Himalayas suddenly got bad altitude sickness on one of his excursions and had to come back down to recover.

It can hit anybody at any time and can be very dangerous.
 
I was an Aerospace Physiologist for many years and taught physiologic adaptation to altitude.

Hydration, acclimitization, limit alcohol, limit physical exertion the first couple days, especially if you are 50+, doctors prescription for diamox.

Pedialyte above Gatorade.


There is some *theory* that rolaids and/or Alka seltzer may help.

I would not waste time with altitude training masks or canned oxygen. I have never read or heard of any professional peer reviewed study which indicates that either of those two work.


 
Sure, because it's the correct answer due to physics. You're own resource has nothing to do with altitude sickness. Athletic performance at altitude is an entirely separate issue than altitude sickness.
No it isn’t man, respectfully. If there is over exertion during the ascent this is a can result in an onset of AMS. Being in peak physical condition is “1” of the ways to prevent that over exertion. I am by no means saying that it doesn’t happen to folks that are anaerobic trained specimens.
 
Respectfully, you're objectively incorrect. By all means, don't take my word for it, I'm no expert--but it sounds like Feddoc is. B
According to the experts with the American Heart Association and the American College of Cardiology you're dead wrong.

These other experts also have pretty solid data and analysis in their published paper directly contradicting your repeated claim.
Pagé M, Sauvé C, Serri K, Pagé P, Yin Y, Schampaert E. Echocardiographic assessment of cardiac performance in response to high altitude and development of subclinical pulmonary edema in healthy climbers. Can J Cardiol 2013;29:1277-84.
 
Hahaha funny argument...

Here's my $.02...

Sure Ams or Hape or hace can and will hit anybody at any time while at elevation.

Altitude sickness will be more likely if there is a Crack in the metaphorical armor like dehydration, over exertion, being out of shape or sickness or something like that.

However I do believe having strong cardio and strength does help reduce the likelihood of altitude sickness to some extent. And speed recovery to some extent.

Which is a nuance some guys on here are missing.

I used to ski alot in some of the big ranges exploring all sorts of physical limits and at times pushed into a bout or two of ams around the 6k meter range. To reference where I formed my opinions on altitude sickness.

But really at hunting elevations it's all about easing into it and heavy hydration along with matching salt intake, as hyponatremia, if you wash all your salts out, feels alot like altitude sickness.
 
I searched as much literature as I could find to see if athletic training would produce a decreased rate of susceptibility to any form of AMS. I found nothing. I found a couple of smart, and current, folks who assumed so, but no studies.

The partial pressure of the gas we breathe sorta dictates how we get AMS. As we rise in altitude, the percentage of O2 remains at 20.4% and the further we ascend, the further those O2 molecules are apart. Neurologically, our CNS system suffers with each ascent in altitude. Most AMS is presented during the first 3 days at altitude.


The folks in the above link said this: "It is plausible that (over)exertion during ascent may exacerbate AMS by causing a greater hypoxic stress due to increased desaturation during exercise and to symptoms of exhaustion like fatigue, nausea, or vomiting after exercise "( 18 ).

From the above, one could assume that those athletically trained would be less susceptible to AMS because they tend to exert less effort to do the same work. BUT, there will likely never be a peer reviewed study which provides evidence either way. I know of no human subjects committee which would allow the study which has a goal to get AMS.

(40 + years ago there was some theory that those conceived and born at altitudes around 8K or so developed alveoli (primary gas exchange system) which were more capable of supplying O2 to working tissue. But, no real evidence exists to support that theory.)

The idea that those more athleticly trained can exert less effort to do the same job and are therefore less likely to get AMS is sorta like the born at altitude theory; a good theory, but no real paper evidence to support it. When looking for peer reviewed studies to support this, I found no evidence. That was kinda puzzling to me as those more athletically trained will get more things done with less effort, which should ward off a buildup of lactic acid....which interferes with O2 transport because it (lactic acid) binds so tightly with hemoglobin. Look up 'Haldane Transformation' if you are bored. Very bored. That explains how LA (lactic acid) can be removed from the blood, allowing hemoglobin to move more O2.


The above link describes the buffering effect.

The effects of being in shape athletically, whether cardio or strength trained, will not likely show a difference in O2 delivery to body tissue IF one trains to the same level of exertion for both methods. Ejection Fraction (% of oxygenated blood delivered by the left ventricle) will statiscally be the same when comparing cardio v. strength training only if the training exertion levels (heart rate) are equal.

Cardio = volume overload = larger LV chamber.

Strength training = pressure overload = thicker LV walls.

Either = improved LV efficiency.
 
Be sure and tell him if he takes Acetazolamide he shouldn’t drink any carbonated beverages. Makes them taste awful! And it makes you pee a lot!

I used acetazolamide for years and then tried altitude adjustment made in Colorado. It worked FOR ME. Herbal ingredients that include Ginsing and Ginko. Kept my drug in my bag just in case and never had to use it. Works for my wife too and no one I have recommmeded it to said it didn’t help. No RX required and doesn’t have the side effects. But def get the drug if you want to make sure he has the best chance to avoid problems.
 
Be sure and tell him if he takes Acetazolamide he shouldn’t drink any carbonated beverages. Makes them taste awful! And it makes you pee a lot!

I used acetazolamide for years and then tried altitude adjustment made in Colorado. It worked FOR ME. Herbal ingredients that include Ginsing and Ginko. Kept my drug in my bag just in case and never had to use it. Works for my wife too and no one I have recommmeded it to said it didn’t help. No RX required and doesn’t have the side effects. But def get the drug if you want to make sure he has the best chance to avoid problems.
Ginko for sure it works for me every time from sea level to 7500 ft in 12-15 hours
 
Just wanted to follow up and say thank you to everyone who provided advice. My son did not get his elk, but he was able to enjoy the entire trip this time, which allowed us to hunt for other game and go fishing. He had an absolute blast.
I was able to get a prescription for Diamox and made sure he was very well hydrated.
Thanks again for helping him have his best trip out west yet!
 

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