Overpopulated wild horses are hurting sage grouse survival rates

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ktg

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Castnshoot said:
Last year I found five horse sculls with a bullet hole right between the eyes while shed hunting in Nevada.
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Yeah, i find carcasses but i never examined them, but have to assume some are getting shot.

These horses aren't just down in the flats, either. I can be struggling going through some thick stuff way up high and will come across horse crap. There doesn't seem to be any kind of landscape that deters them.

I think it was on GoHunts podcast recently that said there are 3 times more horses (and donkeys) in nevada than all of the other ungulates combined. Insane to think about.
 
We have a local herd of wild horses near where i live. Roads get shut down to protect the horses. main highways get named after the horses. now some horses have names. every year they do a round-up and put the horses up for sale. they do make great horses once you break them in but the horse lovers want to stop this. they even do a round up and take the mares to basically add in some birth control to maintain the herd.

Now i agree with the statement above. not wild but feral. This herd came from the locals from when men went to WW2 and also released during the great depression .

Another local herd they claim have some true Spaniard blood from 100's of years ago. which is also a line of crap. Talk to the old local ranchers and their horses got mixed with that herd, plus the ranchers before them which means that spanish line over the years probably died off. Its a marketing tool here. come to the wild horse range.$$$$$$$ come see billy the gray horse and buy him as a stuff animal at the wild mustang center.
 
I've seen them round them up before. It was pretty cool. They used a helicopter. What was crazy was the 30 something tree huggers with insanely expensive camera equipment documenting the whole thing. And sure enough there was an article not longer after in the newspaper about how the BLM broke a horses leg during the round up.
 
Well!

If They Didn't Like That They Sure As Hell Wouldn't Like The Way My Wife's Brother & My Nephews Rounded A Bunch Of Them Up!


Let's Just Say It Was THE COWBOY'S WAY!

lesstalkmorerock said:
I've seen them round them up before. It was pretty cool. They used a helicopter. What was crazy was the 30 something tree huggers with insanely expensive camera equipment documenting the whole thing. And sure enough there was an article not longer after in the newspaper about how the BLM broke a horses leg during the round up.
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We have the closest thing to a wild horse here in SE Oregon, the Keiger mustang. they are from the Spanish expeditions and some of them are pretty impressive. but they're still an invasive species even at that.

The problem is they can't do much even when they get a take order to round some up because they can't get rid of the ones they captured last time. it will take federal changes to the laws that have been in effect since Nixon was president so when do you expect that to happen? there's a better chance of movement on wolf and griz management than anything with horses.
 
Here's My BITTCH With Sage Chickens:

They Just Keep Looking For More reasons Why They Are Not Doing Too Well!

Rather Than Squandering All The Money That's Been Wasted On Studies & Such!

Why Didn't We Take that Money & Plant Ever How Many We Can Plant With It Each Year & Let Live whatever Is Gonna Live?

When Me & A Couple Of My Friends Were Younger We Put The Smack-Down On Bag Limits Os Sage Chickens!

And Thank GAWD We Had People That Were Appreciative Of The BIG OLE BOMBERS!

THEY AIN'T TOUGHER THAN BOILED OWL!

THEY'RE BLACKER & NASTIER THAN A DAMN QUACKER!
 
We Got A Local Gal That's Gonna Save The Wild Horses!

She had About 25 for a couple years!

I See recently The Herd Got Cut In About half!

Probably Gets A Little Spendy To Feed About 25 Head When All You're Doing Is watching Them Eat!
 
First off- Anyone else think that Sage Grouse must be one of the weakest and most fragile wild animals in America??

Second- In 2011 when my dad had a Book Cliffs deer tag, we never saw a single horse. Over the years of other hunts, those numbers have been going up by my observation. Last year, my dad and I easily saw dozens of horses... more horses than elk even. So yeah, its a problem I'd say.
 
Hey BR!

In 2011 You wasn't Paying Enough Attention!:D



BrowningRage said:
First off- Anyone else think that Sage Grouse must be one of the weakest and most fragile wild animals in America??

Second- In 2011 when my dad had a Book Cliffs deer tag, we never saw a single horse. Over the years of other hunts, those numbers have been going up by my observation. Last year, my dad and I easily saw dozens of horses... more horses than elk even. So yeah, its a problem I'd say.
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BrowningRage said:
First off- Anyone else think that Sage Grouse must be one of the weakest and most fragile wild animals in America??

Second- In 2011 when my dad had a Book Cliffs deer tag, we never saw a single horse. Over the years of other hunts, those numbers have been going up by my observation. Last year, my dad and I easily saw dozens of horses... more horses than elk even. So yeah, its a problem I'd say.
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No
The condor takes first place.
 
The WFRHBA Act of 1971 gives them federal protection. nothing is going to change without congressional action and that's not going to happen.

The hippies, pilgrims and morons care more about the " wild ' horses than the native wildlife. no politician wants to be labeled a pony killer.
 
Years ago my uncle as a teenager worked at a slaughter house. They used to bring in “wild horses” off the range, slaughter them and send the meat back east.

One day while gutting a pregnant mare he pulled a live foal out. He took it home to the ranch and raised it up.

This is my Dad on one of her offspring.

IMG_5496.jpeg
 
Here in Colo mtn goats are treated like 2nd rate citizens. If they wander outside unit boundaries they are shot! In New Mexico, oryx, ibex, and auodad are shot in high numbers to keep numbers in check.

It’s pretty easy to visualize how wild horse numbers get out of control and impact native vegetation and native wildlife when hunting is not allowed. If horse meat was considered a delicacy you can bet they would be hunted!
 
Hey Castnshoot?

Can you Send Me the Guys Name That's On The Horse?

Castnshoot said:
Years ago my uncle as a teenager worked at a slaughter house. They used to bring in “wild horses” off the range, slaughter them and send the meat back east.

One day while gutting a pregnant mare he pulled a live foal out. He took it home to the ranch and raised it up.

This is my Dad on one of her offspring.

View attachment 161629
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Talking about “wild” horses brings back a lot of old memories. The Cedar Fort 24th rodeo used horses caught in Skull Valley south of Tooele for years. After the rodeo they would be sold and the proceed were put in the ward building fund.🤠 Half of Cedar Fort, including the ward bishopric and this recently returned missionary, were nearly arrested in 1972 during the round up. We had branded horses in the herd collected and that got us off. It was quite a sight being chased by helicopters and BLM rangers. That was the last round up.😢
 
DANG You Doc!:D

Perty WESTERN In Your YOUNGER Days Wasn't You?:D


BacDoc said:
Talking about “wild” horses brings back a lot of old memories. The Cedar Fort 24th rodeo used horses caught in Skull Valley south of Tooele for years. After the rodeo they would be sold and the proceed were put in the ward building fund.🤠 Half of Cedar Fort, including the ward bishopric and this recently returned missionary, were nearly arrested in 1972 during the round up. We had branded horses in the herd collected and that got us off. It was quite a sight being chased by helicopters and BLM rangers. That was the last round up.😢
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BacDoc said:
Talking about “wild” horses brings back a lot of old memories. The Cedar Fort 24th rodeo used horses caught in Skull Valley south of Tooele for years. After the rodeo they would be sold and the proceed were put in the ward building fund.🤠 Half of Cedar Fort, including the ward bishopric and this recently returned missionary, were nearly arrested in 1972 during the round up. We had branded horses in the herd collected and that got us off. It was quite a sight being chased by helicopters and BLM rangers. That was the last round up.😢
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If you go to Cedar Fort now you better have a barf bag with you when you look down in to the valley.
Heck, there is even a temporary used car dealership in gravel on SR73 just before you enter Cedar Fort on 73.
 
mulecreek said:
Another wyofile article regarding wild horse impact on wildlife

wyofile.com

Wildlife rebounds from ecological ‘crisis’ following wild horse roundups on Wind River Reservation - WyoFile

Federal and tribal biologists are amassing data on the recovery of the Wind River Indian Reservation’s rangeland, and early results suggest there were immediate, dramatic effects from large-scale roundups.
wyofile.com wyofile.com
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Lots of whiners and ignorance in the comments. Some are pretty funny.
 
I remember when the feds removed all the mule deer and Roosevelt elk from the Island (Santa Catalina maybe?) off the California coast because they weren't native species. Why they really made a fuss about it was because hunting was allowed for both species. But no one wants to admit that. They weren't even destroying the habitat at the expense of other species!

Why the horses are so sacred is a mystery to me.
 
How many of us enjoy fishing for non-native brookies, brown trout, and rainbows. Pheasants, chuker, and huns also aren't native to the US.

How many fishermen and hunters love to fish and hunt these non-native species and have ever considered getting rid of them because they aren't native?

The sad part about wild horses is their negative impact to the health of ecosystems.
 
jims said:
How many of us enjoy fishing for non-native brookies, brown trout, and rainbows. Pheasants, chuker, and huns also aren't native to the US.

How many fishermen and hunters love to fish and hunt these non-native species and have ever considered getting rid of them because they aren't native?

The sad part about wild horses is their negative impact to the health of ecosystems.
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Your scenario does not apply to horses.
If horses could be hunted, then it applies.
 
jims said:
How many of us enjoy fishing for non-native brookies, brown trout, and rainbows. Pheasants, chuker, and huns also aren't native to the US.

How many fishermen and hunters love to fish and hunt these non-native species and have ever considered getting rid of them because they aren't native?

The sad part about wild horses is their negative impact to the health of ecosystems.
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I would say horses are more like carp than brook trout.

Most logical hunters and fisherman don’t want them around, and don’t want to hunt or fish for them.
 
If you haven't caught a 10 to 15 lb carp on a flyrod you don't know what you are missing! It takes pretty good skill to consistently catch carp on a fly! Unfortunately, carp are another non-native fish in the US! Carp tastes horrible to me but some may like it?
 
If It Looks Like A CARP!

If It STANKS Like A CARP!

If It's SLIMY Like A CARP!

If It's UGLY Like A CARP!

Then It's Probably A F'N CARP!

I Wonder When Somebody In This State Will Decide That Umpteen F'N Million Years Ago There Was Some Rare Breed Of NATIVE CARP In This State So We Can Start Wasting Billions Of Dollars On Re-Introduction?



jims said:
If you haven't caught a 10 to 15 lb carp on a flyrod you don't know what you are missing! It takes pretty good skill to consistently catch carp on a fly! Unfortunately, carp are another non-native fish in the US! Carp tastes horrible to me but some may like it?
Click to expand...
 
Suckers and chubs also seem to get a bad rap. Most, if not all of them are native but tend to get a bad rap. There is 1 or 2 of them that are actually rare and protected here in Colo.

If you think about it, suckers are native but several trout species are not! Should we kill the invasive, non-native trout where there are rare native suckers?
 
elkassassin said:
If It Looks Like A CARP!

If It STANKS Like A CARP!

If It's SLIMY Like A CARP!

If It's UGLY Like A CARP!

Then It's Probably A F'N CARP!

I Wonder When Somebody In This State Will Decide That Umpteen F'N Million Years Ago There Was Some Rare Breed Of NATIVE CARP In This State So We Can Start Wasting Billions Of Dollars On Re-Introduction?
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Carp are fun to bow fish!!
 
I wouldn't eat a horse but I'd shoot them for the good of native wildlife. on private land they get shot like rock chucks around here and it's legal if the landowner filled out the proper paperwork in 1971. but few owners go back that far anymore.

We're going to winter kill a lot of feral horses this year due to all the fires burning the winter range up. and unfortunately a lot of native animals as well.
 
I'm not sure where you get that from, a horse smells good actually. maybe you have to be a horseman to appreciate it.

I'd get no pleasure out of killing them, and I don't hate them they're just trying to survive like everything else. but they simply don't belong here and they cause too much damage.
 
jims said:
If you haven't caught a 10 to 15 lb carp on a flyrod you don't know what you are missing! It takes pretty good skill to consistently catch carp on a fly! Unfortunately, carp are another non-native fish in the US! Carp tastes horrible to me but some may like it?
Click to expand...
Here is another fun thing to do with carp. If you are going fishing in a place with a ton of carp. Take an old pair of pants, long sleeve shirt, old shoes, and a baseball cap.

Take a mess of carp and make a carp manikin. Place it face down in some grass or bushes just off a trail where you think it will not be discovered for a week or two.

That is an old gag, that would be much more fun now days with a trail camera.

Hard to do with horse though.
 
ktg said:
Wyoming study:
wyofile.com

Overpopulated wild horses are hurting sage grouse survival rates, Wyoming study finds - WyoFile

Research, nearly 15 years in the making, suggests that non-native equines add another stressor to the struggles of sagebrush-dependent birds.
wyofile.com wyofile.com

Struggling sage grouse in the Book Cliffs, along with almost all other wildlife, might be helped by eliminating some (or all) wild horses? They're out of control.
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I was hunting then desert this year and the horses were everywhere and I was in one of the best areas for sage grouse and didn't see one in two days of hunting
 
Let's take those wild horses and sell them to the Rodeos for stock Some of those horses are very impressive let's see if some of our Cowboys can stay on them.
I'll bet they make good Rodeo stock
 
They'd buck, but few are big enough to have any rodeo value. and they cannot be commercially exploited even if they were good.

And they can't just be sold, they have to be " adopted " and there are many conditions. I've worked with a few and even seen a few success stories. but most aren't worth the effort and will never be solid .
 
I remember about 20 years ago they were blaming the Crows and they were poisoning eggs to kill the Crows. It worked for a short time then the Crows were everywhere again.
 

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