New Long Range Catridge Coming Soon

30Hart

30Hart

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For those of you that might be a little bit disappointed with Hornady's 7mm PRC release that hit the web this week here's another option coming soon from my gunsmith Josh Robinson of Robinson Precision Rifles out of Syracuse Utah. I had a very small part in this but I'm knowledgeable enough to answer what I can about it. Its just a teaser, so I can't release his ballistics just yet, thanks for checking it out.

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A 7mm Allen magnum holds 122 grains of H2O and when loaded with a 195 Berger is slightly over 3.9 inches. Josh's cartridge length is designed to work in a small or medium length action to take advantage of a short fat powder column which is desirable for long range accuracy.
 
30Hart said:
For those of you that might be a little bit disappointed with Hornady's 7mm PRC release that hit the web this week here's another option coming soon from my gunsmith Josh Robinson of Robinson Precision Rifles out of Syracuse Utah. I had a very small part in this but I'm knowledgeable enough to answer what I can about it. Its just a teaser, so I can't release his ballistics just yet, thanks for checking it out.

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Interesting...
 
To many calibers to keep up with anymore. I think the 6.5 and .300 prc are here to stay and will remain popular. Browning answer with the 6.8 western I don't think will rise to the top. I believe it sold cause it was easy ammo to find so the answer was just to buy that rifle. Not even gunwerks or botw picked that round up.

With all these new calibers rising weatherby had been ahead of the game before all these new calibers came.

How will this new 7mm compare to the 7lrm?
 
This cartridge offers nothing that excites me and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what it's purpose is. It says it works in a short or medium length action and that it offers legitimate magnum performance from a short action. So is it a short or medium action cartridge? What are the cartridge dimensions? The photo looks close to scale based on the case head diameter and if so it's not fitting into the magwell of a standard short action (2.8"-3.0") so you've either got a single shot or you are going to need to seat that bullet much deeper to fit in the magwell and that's going to kill your performance. What features besides the not so short action does this offer? (Not being a jerk but these are the questions you will be asked if you roll this out at SHOT in 2023 and you aren't going to get much great press unless you hand out a bunch of rifles).

What barrel length is going to be needed to give "legitimate magnum velocity" with this cartridge? I'm guessing it'll be held back quite a bit with a 22"-24" barrel and a 26"-28" barrel isn't going to balance well on a short action.

Is this cartridge going to be standardized by Saami or are we looking at a proprietary cartridge and a single source for brass and ammo? What ammo company is going to pick this up at a time when they can't stock shelves with 6.5prc, .280 rem and a slew of other legitimate cartridges. If it's a proprietary round and you go out of business what other options are there for brass besides cutting down lapua brass, necking it down in multiple stages and turning the necks? If a guy can't get brass or ammo for his rifle then he is going to be stuck with a big headache.

So the single benefit of this cartridge is true magnum performance from a short action/single shot rifle or a medium action repeater vs. from what I can tell are a long list of negatives unless I've missed something.

I hear a lot more people complaining about not being able to fit long seated bullets in their short actions than I hear complain about the extra weight of a long action.

I do hope your gunsmith has a happy and successful career but I don't think this is the catalyst for it.
 
nfh said:
To many calibers to keep up with anymore. I think the 6.5 and .300 prc are here to stay and will remain popular. Browning answer with the 6.8 western I don't think will rise to the top. I believe it sold cause it was easy ammo to find so the answer was just to buy that rifle. Not even gunwerks or botw picked that round up.

With all these new calibers rising weatherby had been ahead of the game before all these new calibers came.

How will this new 7mm compare to the 7lrm?
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Difference will be our round uses lapua brass and fits into a shorter action which should appeal to the sheep and target/tactical/LRH guys/. I think not having lapua brass available like in the LRM has kept the round back. I like the LRM design though.

This is just a teaser so I'm not at liberty to list ballistics yet, but the LRM will not have any advantage over this new cartridge with any current mainstream bullet, thanks for the question.
 
deadibob said:
This cartridge offers nothing that excites me and I'm scratching my head trying to figure out what it's purpose is. It says it works in a short or medium length action and that it offers legitimate magnum performance from a short action. So is it a short or medium action cartridge? What are the cartridge dimensions? The photo looks close to scale based on the case head diameter and if so it's not fitting into the magwell of a standard short action (2.8"-3.0") so you've either got a single shot or you are going to need to seat that bullet much deeper to fit in the magwell and that's going to kill your performance. What features besides the not so short action does this offer? (Not being a jerk but these are the questions you will be asked if you roll this out at SHOT in 2023 and you aren't going to get much great press unless you hand out a bunch of rifles).

What barrel length is going to be needed to give "legitimate magnum velocity" with this cartridge? I'm guessing it'll be held back quite a bit with a 22"-24" barrel and a 26"-28" barrel isn't going to balance well on a short action.

Is this cartridge going to be standardized by Saami or are we looking at a proprietary cartridge and a single source for brass and ammo? What ammo company is going to pick this up at a time when they can't stock shelves with 6.5prc, .280 rem and a slew of other legitimate cartridges. If it's a proprietary round and you go out of business what other options are there for brass besides cutting down lapua brass, necking it down in multiple stages and turning the necks? If a guy can't get brass or ammo for his rifle then he is going to be stuck with a big headache.

So the single benefit of this cartridge is true magnum performance from a short action/single shot rifle or a medium action repeater vs. from what I can tell are a long list of negatives unless I've missed something.

I hear a lot more people complaining about not being able to fit long seated bullets in their short actions than I hear complain about the extra weight of a long action.

I do hope your gunsmith has a happy and successful career but I don't think this is the catalyst for it.
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The purpose is full, cross spectrum use...hunting, tactical, target, ELR. It will provide better performance than any other short or medium action 7mm...enough difference for people to take notice...better than the 7 SAUM, 7mm WSM and will provide ballistics that March or beat several of the long action 7mm cartridges out their. It was designed with emphasis on target accuracy at distance. It's not a big overbore cartridge either...about the right balance of case capacity for desired velocity. No it won't be everything to everyone. Josh will not take this mainstream, that's not the goal here.
 
30Hart said:
The purpose is full, cross spectrum use...hunting, tactical, target, ELR. It will provide better performance than any other short or medium action 7mm...enough difference for people to take notice...better than the 7 SAUM, 7mm WSM and will provide ballistics that March or beat several of the long action 7mm cartridges out their. It was designed with emphasis on target accuracy at distance. It's not a big overbore cartridge either...about the right balance of case capacity for desired velocity. No it won't be everything to everyone. Josh will not take this mainstream, that's not the goal here.
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What's the OAL of the cartridge? You keep saying short or medium action but what short action fits a round that is roughly three and a quarter inches long?
 
deadibob said:
What's the OAL of the cartridge? You keep saying short or medium action but what short action fits a round that is roughly three and a quarter inches long?
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Most short/medium actions that use a Lapua bolt face are setup for a Wyatt’s box or aftermarket magazine. I would assume they aren’t stuff this in a standard Rem700 SA.
 
Looks very interesting to me!

Valid questions. concerns and comments above but I'm sure Josh will have the answers all lined out once it's "released".

Is he going to build the rifles and that's how people get into that cartridge or will he chamber other guys' parts/rifles for this cartridge?

What actions, with appropriate bold face, will work for an appropriate seating depth?

You're a tease, that's for sure! LOL

Zeke
 
deadibob said:
What's the OAL of the cartridge? You keep saying short or medium action but what short action fits a round that is roughly three and a quarter inches long?
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This is just a teaser post, but you'll have to wait and find out...will be worth the wait I believe.
 
Zeke said:
Looks very interesting to me!

Valid questions. concerns and comments above but I'm sure Josh will have the answers all lined out once it's "released".

Is he going to build the rifles and that's how people get into that cartridge or will he chamber other guys' parts/rifles for this cartridge?

What actions, with appropriate bold face, will work for an appropriate seating depth?

You're a tease, that's for sure! LOL

Zeke
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Josh is building the actions in house for this but outside of that a person is free to design his/her rifle how they see fit as long as its a quality part. Of course he'll check it to see if the part falls within specs. But ya pick your own barrel, stock, trigger, scope and mounts. I will say this will make a dandy sheep rifle too as we can build it light if needed. Why don't you get on the running list. It's growing pretty good since yesterday...I'm glad I get #1.
 
Hum interesting
i am doubtful a ammo manufacturers will jump on the wagon and give support or R&D
no ammunition = a zero IMO
 
He's not looking for an ammo provider...not looking to take it big time either. Who shoots factory ammo these days for any real precision work...no one. Just providing a better option on a short action to his customers than anything else that's out there. He won't take this mainstream even if someone comes knocking.
 
Innovation drives change, not all change is dramatic. Correct, the wheel will still be round but I bet both of you drive vehicles around and not covered wagons.
 
I find it interesting.......I have several wealthy hunter friends that were all over the new and trendy stuff back 30+ years ago. Super 7's....Lazaroni's....all of them that I don't remember the names of....

When I run into them today they are all shooting 7mm rem mags, 300 wm's and 3006's.....

They've come full circle...
 
Homer said:
I find it interesting.......I have several wealthy hunter friends that were all over the new and trendy stuff back 30+ years ago. Super 7's....Lazaroni's....all of them that I don't remember the names of....

When I run into them today they are all shooting 7mm rem mags, 300 wm's and 3006's.....

They've come full circle...
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7 STW was a hot round when a was guiding in the 1990’s ,.264wm , 6.5-284 and such where scoffed at , now the PCR and creedmoore are hot
the .300wm and 7rm keep chugging along, ammunition availability is keeping them a success
 
S-3 Ranch said:
7 STW was a hot round when a was guiding in the 1990’s ,.264wm , 6.5-284 and such where scoffed at , now the PCR and creedmoore are hot
the .300wm and 7rm keep chugging along, ammunition availability is keeping them a success
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ammo availability.....and the fact that the other stuff was just barely better.....
 
S-3 Ranch said:
7 STW was a hot round when a was guiding in the 1990’s ,.264wm , 6.5-284 and such where scoffed at , now the PCR and creedmoore are hot
the .300wm and 7rm keep chugging along, ammunition availability is keeping them a success
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I have a model 70 classic 7mm stw that I rarely shoot. That thing really smokes those 140s out there, I have some of the old Remington 140 core lokt loads and some newer stuff. The old (late 90s) Remington loads really were loaded hot for factory stuff. I do love the rifle I just never seem to reach for it. Now it is fast twist 7s at slower speeds still doing the same thing at 500 because these high BCs now.
 
Just to correct the record here's a list of just some of the more well known cartridges that started out as proprietary cartridges...22 Hornet, 22-250, 243 Winchester, 257 Roberts, 25-06, 6.5x284 Norma, 7mm-08, 280 Ackley Improved, 338-06, 35 Whelen, 458 Lott. Many of these cartridges contributed to the advancement of rifle ballistics in their own way. Additionally you wouldn't have the 6.5 PRC without the 6.5 GAP 4S coming first either. As I've said innovation drives change, and change is good.
 
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I think new cartridges are about perspective’s. I’ve said before there’s not a single “need” for anything new. What’s out there and has been out there can absolutely do everything you would need and nothings really going to do it better. So for the guy that buy’s a 600 rifle, a 300 dollar scope and a box of core locks a week before deer season anything like this cartridge is pointless.

But then take a guy like me (and many on here) who re loads and loves tinkering with rounds to see what they can do and I just dumped 6k on a rifle in 22 creedmoor to shoot coyotes with that a 220 swift has been doing since the 40’s. Why? Because I think it’s neat. That’s all
 
JPickett said:
I think new cartridges are about perspective’s. I’ve said before there’s not a single “need” for anything new. What’s out there and has been out there can absolutely do everything you would need and nothings really going to do it better. So for the guy that buy’s a 600 rifle, a 300 dollar scope and a box of core locks a week before deer season anything like this cartridge is pointless.

But then take a guy like me (and many on here) who re loads and loves tinkering with rounds to see what they can do and I just dumped 6k on a rifle in 22 creedmoor to shoot coyotes with that a 220 swift has been doing since the 40’s. Why? Because I think it’s neat. That’s all
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My problem is my budget doesn't allow me to be "neat". So, I take my pedestrian cartridges and using new powders and bullets push them to their limits. And, somehow I am OK with that. mtmuley
 
mtmuley said:
My problem is my budget doesn't allow me to be "neat". So, I take my pedestrian cartridges and using new powders and bullets push them to their limits. And, somehow I am OK with that. mtmuley
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I got um in my safe too and I fully recognize the ole 300 win mag can do it all. Just comes down to what you like for fun. I don’t spend money on really anything other then what pertains to hunting ( family stuff of course excluded there) but I’m not a boat guy or car guy or sports guy. So gun guy, bow guy that’s where my spending money goes. If I didn’t have it the 300 would be more then enough to keep going
 
JPickett said:
I got um in my safe too and I fully recognize the ole 300 win mag can do it all. Just comes down to what you like for fun. I don’t spend money on really anything other then what pertains to hunting ( family stuff of course excluded there) but I’m not a boat guy or car guy or sports guy. So gun guy, bow guy that’s where my spending money goes. If I didn’t have it the 300 would be more then enough to keep going
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And I like killing stuff with the "old" cartridges. Been there done that with the LR stuff. mtmuley
 
Should be pretty soon and we'll be able to drop some data...man things go slow in this environment but we're moving along. We received the first two .590 short actions from Terminus an apollo and my apollo lite. We just got back the new reamer from JGS after Josh tweaked it a little. Just need to cut back the weatherby test mule and rechamber with the new reamer then off to the range to make sure that reamer will work. After that proof testing the new actions from Terminus and getting the data to Joel so he can turn them loose...more to follow thanks for asking!!!
 
Homer said:
.....there is....and we are at....the point of diminishing returns.....
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You could say that to just about everything but a bunch of incremental changes makes a big difference. Plus we love to tinker with stuff lol.
 
No we had a test fired catridge and had a second JGS reamer made. Magazine length wasn't the issue as there's several options there already or with just minor mods. Ballistics wasn't the issue either and it performed extremely well. Just a one gunsmith shop were a good friend had to go back to a better paying job. Fun while it lasted and I learned alot.
 
Homer said:
...there is a point of diminishing returns....we are there until a new propellant system comes around
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Homer said:
.....there is....and we are at....the point of diminishing returns.....
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So true ! Get 90-95 % out of your cartridge- thats it - rest is just wasted powder & more kick & noise , etc. No real improvements of any measure ! I learned that like 60 years ago !
Thats why the old ‘06 just keeps dropping the big ones & never looks back !
Jerry Gold- Windsor, Colorado 😁🍀
 

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