Thanks UDWR

SanPitch · Tuesday at 10:19 AM

Silentstalker · Tuesday at 10:27 AM

Wow, whatever happened to depredation hunts? At what expense did this cull cost the Utah tax payer?

Deerlove · Tuesday at 10:47 AM

Citizens should have purchased these tags

treedagain · Tuesday at 10:54 AM

Because they could not sell them as guided hunts, that's why.

SureShot · Tuesday at 10:56 AM

But, they could have, as long as they were reasonably priced.

treedagain · Tuesday at 11:04 AM

So I guess baiting is legal after all?

Mtngoat690 · Tuesday at 12:50 PM

I'm wondering if this is the result of a success rate that dropped from nearly 100% to down in the 60% range?

I could be wrong on the numbers, but last time I looked, it was a bit surprising (i don't know why ) to see how much success reduced when they stopped providing guides to the public hunters for free. It can be a tough hunt if you don't know the area.

I believe anyone familiar with this property would not be too surprised as most knew this is exactly what would happen.

lostinOregon · Tuesday at 12:52 PM

Why does UT have such problems separating church and state.

SureShot · Tuesday at 1:16 PM

They don't have such problems.

elkassassin · Tuesday at 1:20 PM

Depends On Who You Are & What your Rank Is Treed!

treedagain said:
So I guess baiting is legal after all?

hoss · Tuesday at 1:39 PM

This is complete and utter bullshit. DWR has some explaining to do. The animals belong to the public...

elkantlers · Tuesday at 2:06 PM

lostinOregon said:
Why does UT have such problems separating church and state.

The church owns the land, the state (people) owns the elk. How exactly do you propose separating the two?

I lay the blame squarely on the UDWR. There are ways to get these elk killed during the structured seasons already in place. They can and do strongarm some CWMU's into killing more antlerless animals. That is what should have been done in this case. If the Deseret was in jeopardy of losing bull tags, I guarantee they would have found multiple ways to get their public hunter's success rate up.

yoteduster · Tuesday at 2:31 PM

elkantlers said:
The church owns the land, the state (people) owns the elk. How exactly do you propose separating the two?

I lay the blame squarely on the UDWR. There are ways to get these elk killed during the structured seasons already in place. They can and do strongarm some CWMU's into killing more antlerless animals. That is what should have been done in this case. If the Deseret was in jeopardy of losing bull tags, I guarantee they would have found multiple ways to get their public hunter's success rate up.

I agree with you 100%

wstrntines · Tuesday at 4:59 PM

I wonder what the Wades think of the Deseret baiting.

elkassassin · Tuesday at 5:42 PM

They'll Work It To Their Advantage!

wstrntines said:
I wonder what the Wades think of the Deseret baiting.

lostinOregon · Tuesday at 8:27 PM

So in UT no political decisions are influenced by the church? I am not knocking the faith. All I am saying is that it’s clear from a distance that your standing in the church matters politically in UT. If this Jo schmo rancher would this have happened?

middlefork · Tuesday at 8:43 PM

This was not Joe Shmo rancher and is not the only CWMU in the state who's land is owned by the church. But adjacent CWMU's have the same problem regardless of church affiliation.

22/23 winter put a glaring target on these CWMU's.

hossblur · Tuesday at 10:07 PM

lostinOregon said:
So in UT no political decisions are influenced by the church? I am not knocking the faith. All I am saying is that it’s clear from a distance that your standing in the church matters politically in UT. If this Jo schmo rancher would this have happened?

This has zero to do with the church.

Look at the news the last year

WB member is bating, the DWR knows it, and the director kisses his azz on the way out the door.

WLH is on video, complete with flight logs on helicopters chasing elk, SILENCE

WLH burns under a trees bear, and DWR tries to sweep it under the rug, until a line journalist turns up the heat.

Now, DWR is killing OUR elk because Deseret can't sell the tags.

That's off top of my head in 1 min.

WE HAVE A CORPORATE HUNTING PROBLEM, and the DWR LEADERSHIP IS A MAJOR PLAYER IN THAT.

That's not mentioning any of Don Peays bullshit, Leo patrolling I-15 or any of the half dozen other BS stories in the last year.

hossblur · Tuesday at 10:11 PM

I'm as pro DWR guy as there is in here. But, I've always separated the biologists and Leo from the SLC crowd.

It's time for Shirley to be shown the door.

And frankly, there are 3-4 others that need to join him, possibly more.

That agency is completely out of control.

elkassassin · 2024-09-11T04:48:53-0600

So Hossy?

When Are You Gonna Apply For The Job?

hossblur said:
I'm as pro DWR guy as there is in here. But, I've always separated the biologists and Leo from the SLC crowd.

It's time for Shirley to be shown the door.

And frankly, there are 3-4 others that need to join him, possibly more.

That agency is completely out of control.

eyeman · 2024-09-11T08:10:03-0600

My question is what did they do with the Elk after they were taken?

treedagain · 2024-09-11T08:17:35-0600

So baiting is legal as long as it is beneficial to the UDWR.
So basically they did not shoot enough on the cow hunt so they baited and killed 170 with paid shooters?
How about letting the public do the culling?
Who were the paid hunters? Deseret? Friends of Dwr employees?
Wade Heaton?
WLH?
Funny that Faith Heaton was involved?
Shows they knew it was BS when they tried to hide from the public?

Mtngoat690 · 2024-09-11T09:56:38-0600

treedagain said:
So baiting is legal as long as it is beneficial to the UDWR.
So basically they did not shoot enough on the cow hunt so they baited and killed 170 with paid shooters?
How about letting the public do the culling?
Who were the paid hunters? Deseret? Friends of Dwr employees?
Wade Heaton?
WLH?
Funny that Faith Heaton was involved?
Shows they knew it was BS when they tried to hide from the public?

Hey treedagain, no disrespect intended, but have you ever been to the desseret range day where the public hunters qualify their ability to hit an elk?

I have, and I will tell you with absolute certainty.... you probably wouldn't want the average public hunter on a precision cull hunt. I could be wrong, actually I'm probably wrong, but maybe there is a reason for hired shooters in this situation.

Deerlove · 2024-09-11T10:00:03-0600

That's why the public Hunters have to pass a shooting test correct?

Runnoft · 2024-09-11T10:13:45-0600

So exactly how many elk were culled in the entire unit? They donated 39,000 pounds of meat. Probably killed around 3000 elk.

Mtngoat690 · 2024-09-11T10:17:51-0600

Deerlove said:
That's why the public Hunters have to pass a shooting test correct?

I believe so.

mevertsen · 2024-09-11T10:48:52-0600

Runnoft said:
So exactly how many elk were culled in the entire unit? They donated 39,000 pounds of meat. Probably killed around 3000 elk.

It would be 300 elk. By that math it comes to 13 elk. Lol.

treedagain · 2024-09-11T11:18:43-0600

Mtngoat690 said:
Hey treedagain, no disrespect intended, but have you ever been to the desseret range day where the public hunters qualify their ability to hit an elk?

I have, and I will tell you with absolute certainty.... you probably wouldn't want the average public hunter on a precision cull hunt. I could be wrong, actually I'm probably wrong, but maybe there is a reason for hired shooters in this situation.

None taken.

And yes I have been to a range day. My wife had the tag. I could not say if it was mess.

But knowing the vast range of hunters I could see it your way.

A controlled over bait "hunt" would even out some of the Shooting issues.

slamdunk · 2024-09-11T11:53:42-0600

elkassassin said:
They'll Work It To Their Advantage!

I used the DLL chopper to round them b!cthes up!

Mtngoat690 · 2024-09-11T12:03:32-0600

slamdunk said:
I used the DLL chopper to round them b!cthes up!

Pics or it didn't happen lol.....

HNTNFSH · 2024-09-11T12:22:15-0600

HEY VANILLA, can you confirm this happened?

coloradoman · 2024-09-11T12:33:27-0600

Mtngoat690 said:
Pics or it didn't happen lol.....

Oh there is a pic…. Lmmfao

Bucks_Bulls · 2024-09-11T12:34:17-0600

Have a co worker that drew a cow tag for DLL this year and the dwr emailed him recently and offered a second cow tag. Thought that was interesting.

Mtngoat690 · 2024-09-11T12:41:58-0600

coloradoman said:
Oh there is a pic…. Lmmfao

Perfect! I'll just hang out and wait for it then. I hear rumors like this all the time, just never viewed the pictorial evidence.

Is that even a word? It showed up when I was typing so it must be I suppose.

Vanilla · 2024-09-11T12:56:38-0600

HNTNFSH said:
HEY VANILLA, can you confirm this happened?

What are you hoping to have confirmed?

Vanilla · 2024-09-11T13:00:23-0600

lostinOregon said:
If this Jo schmo rancher would this have happened?

Yes, it would have. The state does depredation hunts that do not involve the public all the time. It is either that or pay said Jo schmo farmer tens of thousands of dollars for the damage, as statute requires.

Or, we can have a huge overpopulation of elk on these properties and have another harsh winter and we can all sit and watch dozens upon dozens die of starvation before our eyes at the Echo Junction up the canyon towards Evanston again.

The DWR probably prefers going and addressing the problem quietly and off the radar to each of the actions above. I’m only guessing, because they didn’t run their decisions by me. Although I do happen to know of a certainty that these types of operations (on a smaller scale) happen regularly all around the state. Always have, and I’m guessing they always will.

hossblur · 2024-09-11T14:32:42-0600

"we can talk and encourage".....

No.

You can limit their bull tags until they do what the DWR wants.

Just another example of the tail wagging the dog.

And since when did the DWR decide it didn't need to tell the people who fund it what's going on?

Time for Justin Shirley, Faith Heaton, Mark Hadley, and Covy Jones to hit the bricks.

The leadership at this agency is completely out of control and out of line

hossblur · 2024-09-11T14:43:24-0600

If baiting big game results in felony charges for a WB member, who gets the felony on this one?

I don't remember reading the Deseret exception in the baiting law.

Shockingly Faith Heaton is closed lipped on this one as well.

Who knew the DWR had top secret classification

slamdunk · 2024-09-11T14:50:50-0600

I used to guide on that ranch, I know it is the DNR's pet science project.

It has absolutely everything needed to grow deer and elk and can be micro managed due to the animals never needing to leave.

Sorry to inform the conspiracy guys but there are no high fences, helicopters herding elk onto the ranch, it's all 100% hogwash.

What I WILL confess is that 170 animals could have and should have been incorporated into the public draw cow hunters, there really isn't a legitimate excuse as to their reasoning for not.

What I do agree with is keeping the elk numbers at objective to help recover the heavily lost deer numbers in that unit.

1100 calf elk born every year grows a tight herd in a hurry, especially when the numbers harvested are in the 800's.

We've all heard the theory on almost every unit that the elk are impacting deer numbers, this is the perfect storm to prove that.

hossblur · 2024-09-11T15:04:12-0600

slamdunk said:
I used to guide on that ranch, I know it is the DNR's pet science project.

It has absolutely everything needed to grow deer and elk and can be micro managed due to the animals never needing to leave.

Sorry to inform the conspiracy guys but there are no high fences, helicopters herding elk onto the ranch, it's all 100% hogwash.

What I WILL confess is that 170 animals could have and should have been incorporated into the public draw cow hunters, there really isn't a legitimate excuse as to their reasoning for not.

What I do agree with is keeping the elk numbers at objective to help recover the heavily lost deer numbers in that unit.

1100 calf elk born every year grows a tight herd in a hurry, especially when the numbers harvested are in the 800's.

We've all heard the theory on almost every unit that the elk are impacting deer numbers, this is the perfect storm to prove that.

Luckily all 1100 elk born were cows so it makes perfect sense to cull only cows.

I know, they have the calves, and of course they aren't worth 5 figures.

slamdunk · 2024-09-11T15:21:48-0600

hossblur said:
Luckily all 1100 elk born were cows so it makes perfect sense to cull only cows.

I know, they have the calves, and of course they aren't worth 5 figures.

My basic and limited knowledge would tell me it would cost the state a heck of a lot more to accommodate 170 additional hunters (cullers) versus using current ranch hands and DNR employees to cull out 170 in a quick fashion.

I know it's not a pretty scenario, but it makes sense (to me) why they did it the way they did.

wstrntines · 2024-09-11T16:50:36-0600

They could have ran it like a harvest objective unit. A long season and a lot of tags. Bottom line the WB, the DNR, the CWMU program and the outfitting industry is a giant corrupt clown show. This is the whole problem with the CWMU program they want to be compensated elk damage but at no less than 2k for cows and 5 figures for bulls. If it isn’t outfitted then they will just sit on the tags. If they don’t like it then they should be kicked the F##k out of the program. It was never created to be an elite hunting retreat. But here we are.

elkassassin · 2024-09-11T18:27:38-0600

PUNK Use To Keep Them in Check!

slamdunk said:
I used the DLL chopper to round them b!cthes up!

Mtngoat690 · 2024-09-11T19:09:47-0600

elkassassin said:
PUNK Use To Keep Them in Check!

View attachment 157580

O my goodness, I've heard these rumors, I just never seen it in all my years hunting in the area. I guess I owe a few apologies. I'll be back, I've gotta make a few phone calls to make now.

hossblur · 2024-09-11T19:23:22-0600

slamdunk said:
My basic and limited knowledge would tell me it would cost the state a heck of a lot more to accommodate 170 additional hunters (cullers) versus using current ranch hands and DNR employees to cull out 170 in a quick fashion.

I know it's not a pretty scenario, but it makes sense (to me) why they did it the way they did.

Heaton got charged for baiting.
Is it legal on church owned ground?

middlefork · 2024-09-11T19:48:24-0600

Apparently it is if you get a COR from the division.
I don't think Mr. Heaton applied.

slamdunk · 2024-09-11T19:58:42-0600

hossblur said:
Heaton got charged for baiting.
Is it legal on church owned ground?

In all fairness and honesty, I don't know how they justified the baiting, that is a good question.

hossblur · 2024-09-11T20:09:01-0600

middlefork said:
Apparently it is if you get a COR from the division.
I don't think Mr. Heaton applied.

So if the division asks the division if it's ok if the division that charged Heaton with baiting violations, can bait, then it's ok for the division to bait.

But the division is super excited that no one from the division let the public know the division gave itself permission for the division to bait.

I swear to God, it's about every damn week anymore with the shady, shady **** happening in SLC.

JUSTIN SHIRLEY SHOULD BE FIRED

Vanilla · 2024-09-11T21:31:20-0600

You guys, this really isn’t that hard.

Ya’ll are off your rockers!

elkassassin · 2024-09-11T21:55:49-0600

Hey Hossy?

Do you Remember When I Said?

DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO!

I'm Perty Sure At This Time WH Is Gonna Say I Thought It Was Legal & Standard Procedure After Watching The DWR Do It!

hossblur said:
So if the division asks the division if it's ok if the division that charged Heaton with baiting violations, can bait, then it's ok for the division to bait.

But the division is super excited that no one from the division let the public know the division gave itself permission for the division to bait.

I swear to God, it's about every damn week anymore with the shady, shady **** happening in SLC.

JUSTIN SHIRLEY SHOULD BE FIRED

hossblur · 2024-09-11T22:28:30-0600

Vanilla said:
You guys, this really isn’t that hard.

Ya’ll are off your rockers!

Agreed.

Manage your herd poorly, get a half million reward, and send the rest of us a $25k bill for butchering.

DESKPOP · 2024-09-11T22:31:13-0600

The real issue is how excited they were that they managed to hide all of this from the public.

hossblur · 2024-09-11T22:31:47-0600

elkassassin said:
Hey Hossy?

Do you Remember When I Said?

DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO!

I'm Perty Sure At This Time WH Is Gonna Say I Thought It Was Legal & Standard Procedure After Watching The DWR Do It!

I would.

If I'm his lawyer I'm calling Covy Jones first, Mark Hadley second, Faith Heaton third.

Let a jury try to figure out why Heaton baiting for $45k deer is wrong but DLL baiting for 11 more tags is lawful.

Hunter21 · 2024-09-11T23:55:09-0600

hossblur said:
Heaton got charged for baiting.
Is it legal on church owned ground?

If it’s the DWR overseeing it or doing it I would say yes it is. I don’t believe they have the same restrictions you or I would have. Not saying it’s right or wrong but if they feel it’s necessary to cull off 170 elk between January and March and baiting is the best and most efficient way for them to do it then they have the authority to make that decision.