Oh, how things have changed!

Founder · Aug 10, 2024

Just got back from a Wyoming scouting trip, in which I looked at 24 bucks. I did the same scouting trip 2 years ago and looked at 84 bucks. After scouting last year I was thinking buck numbers were off 50% or so. Now after last years hunts, I think buck numbers are off by 70% compared to 2 years ago. Not many yearlings or 2 year old type bucks.

It’s strange to look at hillsides where I always saw bucks, and now none. Lots of hillsides and basins like that. Such a huge change. I’ve never seen anything like it in such a short period of time.

Couple of the best bucks found this year.

LIK2HNT · Aug 10, 2024

To bad things are down that much. But you still find better bucks than most.

Wyo_Roadhunter · Aug 10, 2024

Desert is the same. I went from 15+ bucks on a water hole camera before the bad winter, last year I had 2 tiney 2 points is all and this year I'm up to 4 bucks haha. Pretty crazy.

Triple7 · Aug 10, 2024

I remember a wildlife biologist years ago in a meeting saying, one real bad winter kill can take a decade to get over.

kickerbuck · Aug 10, 2024

Sad deal, welcome to Oregon Wyoming! Hopefully they can figure something out with the OTC tags and limit more Non-Res tags soon.

yoteduster · Aug 10, 2024

The winter of 22-23 was a real killer on our big game especially the deer in Ut, Wyo and Colo... but apparently the game Commissions don't think much about it as they didn't make any changes to the seasons or number of tags..go figure

muleyslayerwa · Aug 10, 2024

It’s been said before, and it’s unfortunately true. Until fish and game figures out how to control Mother Nature (droughts/bad winters) the big die offs will continue to happen. They can cut as many tags as they want, after a bad winter the population will still take a few years to bounce back.

Tristate · Aug 10, 2024

Not very exciting

goforbroke · Aug 11, 2024

Founder - love your yearly reports. Did you get a tag this year or going out of love of the deer/future hunt?

hawkbill · Aug 11, 2024

When you have a winter kill like that , from my research over the years with other areas , you are looking at a 20 year plus cycle when hunting is still allowed. We’ve got the same problem going on in some of Idahos better units. That’s a big process to bring trophy Mule Deer back when you’re always taking the cream of the crop. Thanks for sharing your info

Founder · Aug 11, 2024

goforbroke said:
Founder - love your yearly reports. Did you get a tag this year or going out of love of the deer/future hunt?

We have tags. The expensive ones too!

Founder · Aug 11, 2024

hawkbill said:
When you have a winter kill like that , from my research over the years with other areas , you are looking at a 20 year plus cycle when hunting is still allowed. We’ve got the same problem going on in some of Idahos better units. That’s a big process to bring trophy Mule Deer back when you’re always taking the cream of the crop. Thanks for sharing your info

Hopefully it recovers some day, but based on what I’ve seen almost everywhere else, probably not.

Justhunt14 · Aug 11, 2024

A good friend of mine guides on the east side of Nevada, 90% of my hunting takes place in southern Utah, and we were comparing quality and quantity one day, his observation was numbers were down crazy low, without any young bucks, my observation was numbers were way down and no mature bucks mostly everything I have been seeing was 3 yrs old and younger.

yoteduster · Aug 11, 2024

Justhunt14 said:
A good friend of mine guides on the east side of Nevada, 90% of my hunting takes place in southern Utah, and we were comparing quality and quantity one day, his observation was numbers were down crazy low, without any young bucks, my observation was numbers were way down and no mature bucks mostly everything I have been seeing was 3 yrs old and younger.

If your talking about a general hunt unit here in Utah you can figure 80% or so of those young bucks will be history when all of the hunts are over this year..its not hard to figure out why mature bucks are so few and far in between

slamdunk · Aug 11, 2024

That big winter of 22-23 took a massive toll.

On the bright side, everything that survived it in all the states effected, are the fittest of the fittest genetically and that is what our crop is coming from this year.

jims · Aug 11, 2024

It's sad to see buck numbers drop with little concern in some states about tag quotas. It obviously takes healthy does and fawns to produce bucks! Bad winters and a long list of other factors all add up and take their toll.

grosventrehunter · Aug 11, 2024

Yet, the outfitters will still be taking hunters and shooting deer. They only care about their pockets, not the deer they use to line them.

elkantlers · Aug 11, 2024

grosventrehunter said:
Yet, the outfitters will still be taking hunters and shooting deer. They only care about their pockets, not the deer they use to line them.

You're correct. Same as all the others on this thread saying how bad things are.

Justhunt14 · Aug 11, 2024

yoteduster said:
If your talking about a general hunt unit here in Utah you can figure 80% or so of those young bucks will be history when all of the hunts are over this year..its not hard to figure out why mature bucks are so few and far in between

General and LE units, here on the pauns I've seen a little bit better quality this year, but still far from where it should be for a LE.
your not wrong about the general units, majority of those will be killed off this year.

slamdunk · Aug 11, 2024

Justhunt14 said:
General and LE units, here on the pauns I've seen a little bit better quality this year, but still far from where it should be for a LE.
your not wrong about the general units, majority of those will be killed off this year.

I don't believe the Paunsaugunt will ever get shot out.

There are far too many healthy deer with extremely low winter kill and high annual fawn crop, not to mention extremely flat land with a jungle like enviroment of Cedars and Juniper that conceal bucks like no other landscape in Utah does.

I have no doubt the Pauns will always produce giants bucks when all the others fail or start failing, simply because of the terrain.

Bucks are easier to locate in steep country, that's why the top end gets culled every year off the Henry's, for example.
Oak Creek is quickly following suit.

Paunsaugunt will always survive hunting pressure, as long as it remains an LE.

Justhunt14 · Aug 11, 2024

slamdunk said:
The Paunsaugunt will never get shot out.
There are far too many healthy deer with extremely low winter kill and high annual fawn crop, not to mention extremely flat land with a jungle like enviroment of Cedars and Juniper that conceal bucks like no other landscape in Utah does.

I have no doubt the Pauns will always produce giants bucks when all the others fail or start failing, simply because of the terrain.

Bucks are easier to locate in steep country, that's why the top end gets culled every year off the Henry's, for example.
Oak Creek is quickly following suit.

Paunsaugunt will always survive hunting pressure, as long as it remains an LE.

Maybe not shot out completely, but quality is not where it should be in my opinion, and your right it will always have freaks pulled off every year, but even the General units pull a couple freaks every year, but the last couple years I don't think they pulled off bigger deer on the pauns than any other general unit in the state.

It's really sad to see the Henry's where it's at today, my cousin drew that tag the 2nd or 3rd year they opened it up, that was awesome to see the numbers and the quality it was then, and now it's pretty said unit for LE, I think I'd rather have a late season muzzy tag on a general unit.

slamdunk · Aug 11, 2024

Justhunt14 said:
Maybe not shot out completely, but quality is not where it should be in my opinion, and your right it will always have freaks pulled off every year, but even the General units pull a couple freaks every year, but the last couple years I don't think they pulled off bigger deer on the pauns than any other general unit in the state.

It's really sad to see the Henry's where it's at today, my cousin drew that tag the 2nd or 3rd year they opened it up, that was awesome to see the numbers and the quality it was then, and now it's pretty said unit for LE, I think I'd rather have a late season muzzy tag on a general unit.

The genetics for giant bucks run deep and rampant on the Pauns, and the very high buck to doe ratios are keeping that unit very strong.

Assuming you're familiar with the Pauns as it sounds you are, spring and early summer moisture are needed to show the results of those genetics through premium forage habitat, the prime age classes are definitely there.

Cam@strawberry · Aug 11, 2024

The LE units around the state are the bottom of the barrel habitat areas. That’s why they ended up as LE.

Far more susceptible to Mother Nature as a result.

When it’s good they are great but when they are bad, well they get hit hard.

kls · Aug 11, 2024

Many units in CO never rebounded since 07/08 winter. Hope WY doesn't experience the same thing.

jims · Aug 11, 2024

The sad thing about Colo is there has been winterkill plus the cpw increased tags plus the cpw incorporated late rifle rut hunts.

It’s no wonder the mule deer population in Colo has collapsed! It’s sad to see Colo shifting from a world class B&C factory to the pits! All of this is in the name of selling more tags to generate more $! Using CWD as an excuse to deplete the healthy Colo deer herd has been absolutely ludicrous!

I certainly hope Wyo learns from Colo’s dire mistakes! Just think if the WG&F enacted late season cull hunts like they proposed the past few years to blindly battle CWD what the dwindling deer population would be like.

ktg · Aug 11, 2024

I guess our '1 less than max' points will continue to grow

Mallardsx2 · Aug 11, 2024

jims said:
The sad thing about Colo is there has been winterkill plus the cpw increased tags plus the cpw incorporated late rifle rut hunts.

It’s no wonder the mule deer population in Colo has collapsed! It’s sad to see Colo shifting from a world class B&C factory to the pits! All of this is in the name of selling more tags to generate more $! Using CWD as an excuse to deplete the healthy Colo deer herd has been absolutely ludicrous!

I certainly hope Wyo learns from Colo’s dire mistakes! Just think if the WG&F enacted late season cull hunts like they proposed the past few years to blindly battle CWD what the dwindling deer population would be like.

Dude. Get on board. We have to kill them all to save them all. Doesn’t that make sense to you?! lol

1989Cohunter · Aug 11, 2024

Mallardsx2 said:
Dude. Get on board. We have to kill them all to save them all. Doesn’t that make sense to you?! lol

I’m almost impressed with Colorado. They have wrecked the deer herd to save it! Yeah there are still good bucks around. But It’s getting way tougher than the average guy to find them.

jims · Aug 11, 2024

It’s likely going to take sacrifice and change of some sort for a recovery.

In Colo it’s more of poor management decisions. I really believe many Colo res hunters would approve returning to old rifle season dates out of the rut and tag cuts to allow deer numbers and quality to recover. The CPW continue to sell as many tags as possible at the expense of mule deer.

There is very little biology involved with recent CPW decisions. It’s all about revenue! When Colo changed from the CDOW to CPW it dramatically changed how Colo manages wildlife. We are all aware of Colo’s mule deer mecca status prior to these changes. I hope other states learn from Colo’s mistakes!

hossblur · Aug 13, 2024

@Founder

Did the Mrs get to keep her head?

slamdunk · Aug 13, 2024

jims said:
It’s likely going to take sacrifice and change of some sort for a recovery.

In Colo it’s more of poor management decisions. I really believe many Colo res hunters would approve returning to old rifle season dates out of the rut and tag cuts to allow deer numbers and quality to recover. The CPW continue to sell as many tags as possible at the expense of mule deer.

There is very little biology involved with recent CPW decisions. It’s all about revenue! When Colo changed from the CDOW to CPW it dramatically changed how Colo manages wildlife. We are all aware of Colo’s mule deer mecca status prior to these changes. I hope other states learn from Colo’s mistakes!

Liberals are ruining Colorado's hunting