Clearwater fire

nfh

nfh

Long Time Member
Messages
7,961
Well this is going to shut down some sheep hunts, late season elk hunts. Elks fork is main hub to access several areas.

Screenshot_20240726_190203_Facebook.jpg
 
Why is this the Clearwater Fire? The Clearwater drainage is North of the road and river. Anyway, will they let it burn to remove beetle killed lodgepole pine or will they actually make an effort to put it out? You never know around here. NFH is right about the fire possibly altering sheep (Area 3) and elk hunts and especially access into other areas. No telling how many USFS administrators and supervisors are standing around watching this fire.
 
mightyhunter said:
Why is this the Clearwater Fire? The Clearwater drainage is North of the road and river. Anyway, will they let it burn to remove beetle killed lodgepole pine or will they actually make an effort to put it out? You never know around here. NFH is right about the fire possibly altering sheep (Area 3) and elk hunts and especially access into other areas. No telling how many USFS administrators and supervisors are standing around watching this fire.
Click to expand...

Had this same discussion on the fire name. My guess was since Clearwater campground is near.

Going to be a interesting fire to watch. Lot of dead crap to be burnt
 
Hopefully they will get the trail opened up to the public again before the season opens. As NFH said, that is a pretty major trail to access a lot of country!
 
just letting it burn is what it looks like to me.
Did I read right about 1,000 acres now?
 
Last edited:
Not much of a fire if it's only burned 1,000 areas in eleven days. Seems to me if they were serious about putting it our there would be fire crews coming in from all over the state/country.
 
eelgrass said:
Maybe you need firefighters like we have in California. So far, they've held the Park fire to around 400,000 acres with 18% containment.
Click to expand...
Good grief. You have got to be kidding. Emulating Cali fire suppression, fire fighting or forest management practices would be a disaster. The smoke from the Chico fire has inundated NW Wyoming. Perhaps Cali should have used a Proposition 65 warning to stop the smoke before it crossed the state line. Just sayin…mh
 
mightyhunter said:
Good grief. You have got to be kidding. Emulating Cali fire suppression, fire fighting or forest management practices would be a disaster. The smoke from the Chico fire has inundated NW Wyoming. Perhaps Cali should have used a Proposition 65 warning to stop the smoke before it crossed the state line. Just sayin…mh
Click to expand...
California is the #1 exporter of carbon pollution in the nation.
 
eelgrass said:
I was a forest fire fighter for CalFire (CDF back then) in the mid 1960's. The biggest fire we had was 1,200 acres.
Click to expand...
Right, which means your clueless about how to go about fighting the fires of today.

I did 8 years fighting fire and what I saw in 1987 wasn't the same as what I saw in 1988, which was different than what I saw in 1994.

Fuel loads, I&D issues, Wildland/urban interface, fire activity, length of fire season, all much different than 1960.

That's the problem with old blue hairs, once they dig their last foot of fireline, nothing changes in their minds.

I'll be the first to tell you, $hit has changed in fire intensity, fuel loads, etc. to the point it's almost stupid/laughable to compare putting out 2 manners in 1960 to fighting fires that burn a half million acres in 24 hours.

Clueless...
 
eelgrass said:
I was a forest fire fighter for CalFire (CDF back then) in the mid 1960's. The biggest fire we had was 1,200 acres.
Click to expand...
I was on this fire in 88 for about 3 weeks including the day it burned 200 square miles.

www.seeleylake.com

The Canyon Creek Fire blowup revisited 30 years later

This summer marks the 30th anniversary of the Canyon Creek fire, which began early in the summer of 1988 but made it's lasting impact when it burned over 200 square miles in one night on Sept. 6. The summer of 1988 was significant. After a hot and dry summer, fires that had previously been left...
www.seeleylake.com

Get your Pulaski and fedco(piss pump) and show us how to "put it out"...

Laffin'.
 
BuzzH said:
I was on this fire in 88 for about 3 weeks including the day it burned 200 square miles.

www.seeleylake.com

The Canyon Creek Fire blowup revisited 30 years later

This summer marks the 30th anniversary of the Canyon Creek fire, which began early in the summer of 1988 but made it's lasting impact when it burned over 200 square miles in one night on Sept. 6. The summer of 1988 was significant. After a hot and dry summer, fires that had previously been left...
www.seeleylake.com

Get your Pulaski and fedco(piss pump) and show us how to "put it out"...

Laffin'.
Click to expand...
Understood that everything changes.
So why do you have to be a prick?
 
Homer said:
500,000 acres in 24 hours??.....where and when?
Click to expand...
Read the article, 200 square miles x640...advanced math, 128,000 acres, in about 16 hours. Canyon Creek fire in the scapegoat. It burned out of the scapegoat and out past Augusta.

Radio traffic that day was horseshit, and I was convinced we would be doing body recovery. Turns out, 107 fire fighters deployed shelters that day (building indirect line), including a shot crew. No fatalities and I was surprised about that.

At the September 7 debrief I recall estimates of close to 200,000 in 24 hours. I believe, iirc, it was finalized at 168,000 acres in 24 hours, most of it in 16.

Absolute fuggin' beast...and at the time unprecedented fire behavior.
 
coloradoman said:
Understood that everything changes.
So why do you have to be a prick?
Click to expand...
Why do people that fought 2 manners in the 60's feel the need to imply they're better than current firefighters?

It's BS, a guy wagging his finger that was on a single fire of 1200 acres, babychit compared to todays fires.

I was on 6-7 fires in 3 months in 1988 that were 1200+, 2 that were 250k plus.

You won't be hearing me taking cheap shots and blaming today's firefighters because fires are getting bigger.

It's not their fault, and frankly, there isn't Jack diddly chit you can do when these gobblers take off...other than get the "F" out of dodge.

BTDT...seen it, from the arena.
 
I'm pretty good with math.......I don't see 500,000 acres in 24 hours...I see slightly less than 200,000 acres.....


Not down playing how bad that fire was.... I read the article....YOU said 1/2 million acres in 24 hours while scolding eelgrass....
 
Homer said:
I'm pretty good with math.......I don't see 500,000 acres in 24 hours...I see slightly less than 200,000 acres.....


Not down playing how bad that fire was.... I read the article....YOU said 1/2 million acres in 24 hours while scolding eelgrass....
Click to expand...
1910 big blowup burned 3 million acres in 2 days.

Smokehouse burned over a million.
 
Homer said:
good try....lol
Click to expand...
If we would have eelgrass and his Pulaski, he could have held those fires to an acre, or less.

But, I do stand corrected, 1910 burned way more than half a million acres in 24 hours. Only killed 85 people, which is surprising.
 
Buzz and I both don't know what forest fires are compared to 90 years ago. And I also agree with Buzz that conditions change over time. Fuel loads, access, tools used to fight fires, the numbers of idiots starting fires, the number of people living in rural areas, etc.

It just amazes me that a fire can get started almost in the city of Chico with no plan on how to fight it early or to keep it from blowing up. No fire breaks, nothing. They got airports full of airplanes loaded with fire retardant, roads all over the place. All they can do is issue an emergency order to evacuate. WTF? We used to run to the fire not run away.

Is it just a coincidence that the Forest Service pulled this graph right after Biden was "elected"? The new improved graph starts about 1980 to make it seem like fires are worse. See what they did there?

Screenshot (47).png
 
eelgrass said:
Buzz and I both don't know what forest fires are compared to 90 years ago. And I also agree with Buzz that conditions change over time. Fuel loads, access, tools used to fight fires, the numbers of idiots starting fires, the number of people living in rural areas, etc.

It just amazes me that a fire can get started almost in the city of Chico with no plan on how to fight it early or to keep it from blowing up. No fire breaks, nothing. They got airports full of airplanes loaded with fire retardant, roads all over the place. All they can do is issue an emergency order to evacuate. WTF? We used to run to the fire not run away.

Is it just a coincidence that the Forest Service pulled this graph right after Biden was "elected"? The new improved graph starts about 1980 to make it seem like fires are worse. See what they did there?

View attachment 152755
Click to expand...
You're a climate change denier, of course you don't understand how things have changed with fire.

The fire "season" is 12 months long.
 
BuzzH said:
You're a climate change denier, of course you don't understand how things have changed with fire.

The fire "season" is 12 months long.
Click to expand...
I do understand that people saw the fire start right outside of town and called 9-1-1. How many fire trucks does Chico have? Do you suppose one or two might could have drove out there and spray a little water on it? Or maybe it wasn't their district, so they said no. Once they let it grow to 100,000 acres, yeah you might as well just drive the firetruck up and down the road and pray for winter to come and cry climate change. Maybe pick a house and defend it so you're called heroes and be on TV.
 
Below is an interesting article about Colorado's largest wildfires:

Historical Wildfire Information | Fire Prevention and Control

dfpc.colorado.gov dfpc.colorado.gov

Historical Wildfire Information​



Colorado's Fire History Facts​


20 of 20 largest wildfires have occurred in the last 20 years (since 2001)

16 of the top 20 largest wildfires wildfires have occurred in the last 13 years (since 2008)


15 of top 20 largest wildfires have occurred in the last 9 years (since 2012)


11 of top 20 largest wildfires have occurred in the last 5 years (since 2016)


9 of top 20 largest wildfires have occurred in the last 3 years (2018 and 2020)


4 of top 5 largest wildfires have occurred in the last 3 years (2018 and 2020)

Colorado's Largest Fires by Acreage​


RankFireAcresYear
1Cameron Peak208,9132020
2East Troublesome193,8122020
3Pine Gulch139,0072020
4Hayman137,7602002
5Spring Creek108,0452018
6High Park87,2842012
7Missionary Ridge70,2852002
8West Fork58,5702013
941654,1292018
10Papoose49,6282013
11Bridger25,8002008
12Last Chance45,0002012
13Bear Springs44,6622011
14MM 11742,7952018
15Beaver Creek28,3802016
16Bull Draw36,5492018
17Badger Hole*33,4212018
18Grizzly Creek32,6312020
19Logan32,5462020
20Burn Canyon31,3002002
*Note: Fires that burned in multiple states

Colorado's Most Destructive Fires by Homes Lost​


RankFireHomes LostYear
1Marshall1,0842021
2Black Forest4892013
3East Troublesome3662020
4Waldo Canyon3462012
5High Park2592012
 
eelgrass said:
I do understand that people saw the fire start right outside of town and called 9-1-1. How many fire trucks does Chico have? Do you suppose one or two might could have drove out there and spray a little water on it? Or maybe it wasn't their district, so they said no. Once they let it grow to 100,000 acres, yeah you might as well just drive the firetruck up and down the road and pray for winter to come and cry climate change. Maybe pick a house and defend it so you're called heroes and be on TV.
Click to expand...
I knew you could get there...you just need to come out of retirement and get that pulaski sharpened up.
 
I hear the same old story every year. Due to climate change it was a really dry winter, so the fire danger is going to be off the charts this summer. If we have really wet winter, due to climate change of course, the grass is going to be really tall and when summer dries it out, due to climate change, the fire danger is going to be off the charts.

Some believe the pulaski was first made by a guy in Idaho, Ed Pulaski, who was a forest ranger-fire fighter, and saved his crew in a fire around 1910.
 
Back on topic. Looks like it is not growing crazy fast. Hopefully they open up elks fork before mid Oct so guys can get in there.
 
Buzz is right, I could never make it as a firefighter in today's climate change world. No wonder it's now a 365 day a year job. This is the Park fire. keep up the good work guys. Only 399,999.8 acres to go! You look kind of shorthanded though. :ROFLMAO:

 
@mightyhunter did the fire wipe out elks fork campground? Been on the mountain for a few days and out of the loop. According to the fire map it did
 
BuzzH said:
1910 big blowup burned 3 million acres in 2 days.

Smokehouse burned over a million.
Click to expand...
U
nfh said:
@mightyhunter did the fire wipe out elks fork campground? Been on the mountain for a few days and out of the loop. According to the fire map it did
Click to expand...
That is what I understand. It might have burned as a result of a back burn. I was in the Sunlight for 3 days. Everyone that can’t camp on the North Fork is in the Sunlight. Just sayin…mh
 
most the timber is dead, if it does jump the highway most that timber is already burnt from the Gunbarrel fire years ago
 
Was in Cody this morning. I read the public release in front of the building. 43% containment. The size of the fire has not changed. They have started pulling firefighters off this fire. It indicated that the Elk Fork area may be closed to the public through December 15.
 
mightyhunter said:
Was in Cody this morning. I read the public release in front of the building. 43% containment. The size of the fire has not changed. They have started pulling firefighters off this fire. It indicated that the Elk Fork area may be closed to the public through December 15.
Click to expand...


So how is the outfitters getting in? i seen they made it in and I know damn well they didnt take pass creek
 
We got exemption (access) cards to get access to our vineyard during the fires we have had through the Farm Bureau.
 
I was up the North Fork highway yesterday. I saw very little smoke and could not smell wood smoke. Clearwater Campground and Elk Fork Campground are closed. It looks like USFS people are camping at the Clearwater Campground. The trailhead up Clearwater Creek is blocked with cones. I don’t know why. There is some visible burned ground along the highway west of Elk Fork. Wapiti and Big Game Campgrounds are open. The North Fork of the Shoshone was a muddy mess. Mh
 
I'm curious.

Did the Big Burn in 1910 come from climate change? Cheat grass?

If only there was a service, that managed forests, so we don't have conditions for these massive fires. Guess they are busy on multiple forums being subject experts daily.
 
Hossblur, Well here you go! Now you got me "fired" up!

Do you think there is reason wildfires are more frequent and burning larger areas today than 50+ years ago? Take a look at the horrific wildfires in Canada and Alaska today vs years ago. Further north is a prime example of impacts across the landscape from weather with little outside impacts from man. Some may blame global warming and climate change? Why are there so many extreme wildfires in recent time burning so far north? Do a web search under caribou and wildfires and you'll soon learn wildfires are impacting wildlife up north!

If you've ever visited glaciers outside of Anchorage you can see in living color the impacts of global warming. Caribou and glaciers are 2 reality checks for global warming non-believers! There are a host of other impacts.

Here is an insert from an Alaska wildfire publication.

"From 2001–2020, wildfire in Alaska burned 31.4 million acres. Over 2.5 times more acres burned than during the previous two decades."

Alaska’s Changing Wildfire Environment | IARC

An intensified pattern of wildfire is emerging in Alaska as rapidly increasing temperatures and longer growing seasons alter the state's environment. Both tundra and boreal forest regions are seeing larger and more frequent fires. The impacts of these fires are felt across the state.
uaf-iarc.org uaf-iarc.org
If you've visited any of the receding glaciers in Alaska it is an eye-opener!

Some may blame global warming but it’s a lot more involved than that in the lower 48 where man has intervened.

Obviously, there were wildfires that used to burn naturally across the Western US prior to man invading the West (Big Burn in 1910?). Do you think suppressing and preventing wildfires for decades plus bringing in and spreading cheatgrass since man invaded the West are 2 major impacts that have changed the health of the Western US range and forested lands? There is plenty of long-term wildfire history data that has proven that wildfires are burning more frequent with higher intensity and more acres in cheatgrass infested areas across the West than 50+ years ago!

I'm doing my best to get the word out to land managers across the country about negative cheatgrass impacts? Are you tired of reading my lengthy posts yet?

There are a lot of forestry experts out there that are keen on the health in forestry settings. Cheatgrass actually isn't that complicated. The forestry guys have their work cut out for them!
 
I listened to a guy named John Reeves awhile back.

Dude Finds fossils out of the ice in Alaska.

Among them are camels, horses, and lots of other species, that aren't artic species.

Meaning the climate changed twice. Once for them to exist there, then again for them to be covered in ice and no longer there.

Cheat grass had nothing to do with it, and while not an expert, I'm guessing if large plains animals existed in Alaska, so did grass and shrubs that would burn. Seems fairly common sense.
 
Hossblur, So you must agree that wildfires are burning more often across Alaska and the Western US today than even 30 years ago?
 
jims said:
Hossblur, So you must agree that wildfires are burning more often across Alaska and the Western US today than even 30 years ago?
Click to expand...

I agree that people are extremely myopic and look a 30 yr stretch as if it matters in the history of the planet, or even mammals on it
 
The current surge of wildfires matters to caribou in Alaska/Canada as well as muledeer/sage grouse in the lower 48! Lots of other impacts as well!
 
jims said:
Caribou and glaciers are 2 reality checks for global warming non-believers!
Click to expand...
Who cares about “global warming non-believers”. Why tilt at that false windmill?

The question is, if we can’t adapt to a warming planet, what do we do about it?

+ Outlaw fossil fuels, and go back to horse-and-buggy days,

+ Declare war on China and India if they refuse to continue building coal-fired power plants… principally because they aspire to our standard of living, or

+ Some other bright idea you may have???

The answer ain’t more unreliable windmills, or solar panel fields covering up more and more of the Earth’s diminishing wildlife habitat.

Humankind will have to adapt, while relying upon innovation, as it always has, to find solutions. We need a source of reliable, clean energy, which many scientists believe will come from cold-fusion. We also need better means of sequestering more carbon in vast sinks such as the ocean.

Looking down on “global warming non-believers’ may give you some sense of moral superiority, but it does nothing to solve the problem.

HT
 
I was more or less making a point about global warming and wildfires in the north country. Not saying we can do anything about wildfires in the north country.

On the other hand, there is something we can do to mitigate and prevent large-scale wildfires in areas with dense cheatgrass!
We just had a couple wildfires here in Colorado. Unfortunately, 1 person died and there were several homes that burned. There is no doubt in my mind that if we wouldn't have sprayed cheatgrass on 500 acres on the boundary of one of those fires that the fire would have burned a bunch more property and homes. The 2 sides where we sprayed cheatgrass 2 years ago the copters and planes made short notice of the fire.

I had 6 game cameras set up in an area that the fire burned. I was using the gamecams to monitor small mammals, reptiles, and birds in cheatgrass vs immediately adjacent sprayed areas. I was able to get the SD cards out of those cameras. The gamecams gave temperature readings for photos taken during the fire. Three of the gamecams in the cheatgrass infested areas had temps of approximately 145 degrees. The gamecams where we sprayed and controlled cheatgrass 2 years ago had temps of approximately 100 degrees. The other interesting thing I picked up on gamecams is that the temperatures were not only hotter, but the intensity lasted for a longer period of time when it was burning.

The University of Idaho has actually done work in the lab comparing fire volatility and intensity of cheatgrass verses perennial grass or the combination of cheatgrass plus perennial grass. They have found the same thing that fine fueled cheatgrass burns hotter and is highly combustible vs perennial grass.

I thought the fire intensity temperature readings were pretty interesting. I've always heard that cheatgrass fires burn hotter but now I have proof! We've had numerous prescribed burns over the years. We have noticed that antelope bitterbrush, mtn mahogany, and other shrubs in wildfires and prescribed burns with cheatgrass understory kill many of these desirable shrubs that are so important to mule deer and other critters.

We may not be able to do anything about global warming but we can definitely do something about cheatgrass and cheatgrass-fueled wildfires in the lower 48.
 
Last edited:
To "no-Suprise" there is another giant acreage cheatgrass-fed wildfire burning in the central-east side of Wyo. The saga continues! How much $ do you think is spent fighting these wildfires? I read a sad report of antelope running around lit on fire.
 
@jims Do you deal with kosha weeds?

I recently found range star to be very effective but them bastards will eventually become immune to it
 
Yep, I fight kochia especially in disturbed sites where we are doing restoration.

Kochia resistance is a major problem. The three recommendations I have is to spray close to the highest use rates, use tank mixes, alternate each year with different herbicides or methods.
 

Similar threads

woodruffhunter
Unit 100 Elk Hunt Report
Replies
52
Views
3k
Longun
Longun
Yalo
Hunter Experiences This Season in Cali
Replies
42
Views
2k
highsierra
highsierra
Omordha
Early Rifle Tag - Mule Deer - Area 7
Replies
8
Views
891
DESKPOP
DESKPOP

Member Gallery Photos and Videos!

mule deer sheds.jpg
81CA51B8-D53F-4A01-A011-036122BD50A0.jpeg
2CE66B7A-A57B-42D0-B8C7-3B770D3C3B08.jpeg
Pretty good buck
Some Solid Bucks Found - MonsterMuleys.com
Big Bull Elk
20170909_102247.jpg
Little Buck.png
20220120_210621.jpg
09C80FB0-0F96-4452-99D9-2D70E6C40FE2.jpeg
1724164294089.png
1692313793910.jpeg

Wyoming Hunting Guides & Outfitters

Badger Creek Outfitters

Offering elk, deer and pronghorn hunts on several privately owned ranches.

Urge 2 Hunt

We focus on trophy elk, mule deer, antelope and moose hunts and take B&C bucks most years.

J & J Outfitters

Offering quality fair-chase hunts for trophy mule deer, elk, and moose in Wyoming.


Yellowstone Horse Rentals - Western Wyoming Horses
Back
Top Bottom