No more governors tags for AZ

longranger said:
No doubt there's rich guys spending a couple thousand dollars and their odds are higher than the average Joe. Guarantee noone is dropping $100k+ on raffle tickets.

You have to realize if a guy spends $120,000 to buy tickets that gets him 6000 tickets. Last year's elk sold 12,000 tickets. That doesn't mean rich guy has half the tickets because the majority of those 12,000 tickets everyone else will still be buying so you're looking at closer to 18,000 tickets with rich guys additional 6,000 tickets and he now has a 33% chance at winning. Great odds but I don't see anyone chancing that.
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Plus you have to add in what happens when a couple rich guys do that for the same raffle.
 
LIK2HNT said:
Plus you have to add in what happens when a couple rich guys do that for the same raffle.
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Exactly. There's a lot of rich guys out there so why are these raffles only selling 12,000 tickets? And if there are any rich hunters that are gonna gamble on a raffle its most likely gonna be some of these az elk/sheep/deer tags. Are only two rich guys trying for these things buying all 12,000 tickets? No.
 
JPickett said:
Well a couple years ago he spent a little over 6 million on a ranch solely for the LO deer tags that come with it in a hell of a unit. So , like I said. Those guys live in a different world
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Rich guy buying a 6 million dollar ranch with multiple animals available for the rest of time > Rich guy gambling $100k on one raffle he doesn't even have 50% odds at. Hmm 🤔 and somehow only 1 Rich guy does the gambling instead of all of the Rich guys and the raffle only sells 12,000 tickets. Somethings off. ..
 
longranger said:
Rich guy buying a 6 million dollar ranch with multiple animals available for the rest of time > Rich guy gambling $100k on one raffle he doesn't even have 50% odds at. Hmm 🤔 and somehow only 1 Rich guy does the gambling instead of all of the Rich guys and the raffle only sells 12,000 tickets. Somethings off. ..
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I’m not sure what dog you have in this fight. Kinda interesting. And I’m sure you’re looking at every raffles numbers for every state every year to give me your guarantee of what I happen to know from first hand experience as being a factual event. Very scientific guarantee you have there

My point was, there were statements that now the little guy has the same chance at these tags. One big guy is all it takes to make that untrue. But, carry on, I love learning from you on this one
 
SlowElk said:
If my memory serves, which is highly suspect, there were a little over 12K tickets sold last year for elk. That would take 120K to buy about half the potential tickets. You are on to something, but I'm sure the big spenders have already figured that out, also. AZGFD will still get their money out of these tags.
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Ya. The problem is the big spenders don't know what other big spenders are doing. 3 big spenders all try to buy $120K for a 50% chance suddenly have a 17% chance.

Who knows, but it may not be as simple as people think. Regardless, I hope the big spenders buy big to keep revenue up.
 
JPickett said:
I’m not sure what dog you have in this fight. Kinda interesting. And I’m sure you’re looking at every raffles numbers for every state every year to give me your guarantee of what I happen to know from first hand experience as being a factual event. Very scientific guarantee you have there

My point was, there were statements that now the little guy has the same chance at these tags. One big guy is all it takes to make that untrue. But, carry on, I love learning from you on this one
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No dog in the fight. I just dont like people that make $hit up. With auction tags the little guy had a 0% chance so things are looking better already.👍
 
longranger said:
No dog in the fight. I just dont like people that make $hit up. With auction tags the little guy had a 0% chance so things are looking better already.👍
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Make $hit up? You mean like a guarantee someone pulls out of their ass? Yeah that’s annoying I agree
 
JPickett said:
Make $hit up? You mean like a guarantee someone pulls out of their ass? Yeah that’s annoying I agree
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The raffle ticket numbers sold don't lie my friend. . There aren't any of your rich pals dropping $100k on one raffle. Don't get a couple thousand dollars mixed up with $100k.
 
longranger said:
The raffle ticket numbers sold don't lie my friend. . There aren't any of your rich pals dropping $100k on one raffle. Don't get a couple thousand dollars mixed up with $100k.
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Like I said. I’m sure you looked at every raffle ever. The one and only one I’m talking about or have claimed from first hand knowledge that somehow you know isn’t true was about 10 years ago and not In Arizona. You really must be narrow minded. It’s a great big world out there if you ever get outa the house
 
javihammer said:
I think Arizona Game and Fish made a good decision getting rid of the auction tags but question the motives.

Arizona has gone in the wrong direction the last couple of years. We have a point guard tag return program that allows people to bonus up their average on group applications using the same tag donor TWICE. There are 501c3 groups reassigning those tags that are being run by many of the people that tried to create a tag raffle expo several years ago. Arizona Game and Fish then decided to give "priority" reassignment of returned tags to people that pay for an upgraded version of the point guard service. And now with electronic tags our tags our essentially crypto. Tags in Arizona have become way harder to track these days annd the people pulling the strings are less visible. Anyone that thinks reading the draw reports will give the full story on Arizona opportunity is a fool, the field isn't level.

What needs to happen is that all of the raffles and tag return processes need to be managed directly by the department, not by non profits. The "run it like a business" mentality of the last few years encourages more 501c3 middlemen to dig into the proceeds generated from the public wildlife resources owned by the residents of Arizona. Arizona doesn't need a marketing genius to market our tags, our quality sells itself and every dollar raised should directly support wildlife.

I worry that transferring control of the auction tags to 501c run raffles is actually a back door way to support expos and conventions in Arizona which will kill DIY hunting opportunity and subsidize the commercial interests that undermine the future of hunting here. If I were King, Arizona would only allow tag returns with a medical letter, most tags would be distributed through the state draw and less than a handful of very generous raffle tags would be raffled directly by AZGFD online. No reason to overcomplicate things, I sure hope I am wrong about the motives behind this.

Ryan
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Thanks for your perspective… I sure hope you are wrong too.
 
FYI EVERYBODY in the last 20 years 9.6 million has been raised for wild sheep. 6.8 auction tags - 2.8 raffles 2024 auction prices Desert bh 430K - elk 501K -MD-600k- prog-90K couse 58K 50% more than raffle tags will generate. Arizona needs to double Resident and Nonresident tag prices to make up the difference so you guys can stop bitching about all the rich guys buying 1 tag.
 
whitetailrick said:
FYI EVERYBODY in the last 20 years 9.6 million has been raised for wild sheep. 6.8 auction tags - 2.8 raffles 2024 auction prices Desert bh 430K - elk 501K -MD-600k- prog-90K couse 58K 50% more than raffle tags will generate. Arizona needs to double Resident and Nonresident tag prices to make up the difference so you guys can stop bitching about all the rich guys buying 1 tag.
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9.6 million and what’s az sheep population doing these days?
 
whitetailrick said:
FYI EVERYBODY in the last 20 years 9.6 million has been raised for wild sheep. 6.8 auction tags - 2.8 raffles 2024 auction prices Desert bh 430K - elk 501K -MD-600k- prog-90K couse 58K 50% more than raffle tags will generate. Arizona needs to double Resident and Nonresident tag prices to make up the difference so you guys can stop bitching about all the rich guys buying 1 tag.
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MD numbers have never been lower, sheep numbers haven't exploded with all that money and Antelope numbers are terrible. Elk and the other species are doing just fine. AZGFD can easily make up that money with their limited tags they're offering. As for price increases they're probably way over due, can't remember the last time they increased any fees, but when they do they need to follow WY's lead and pass it on to the NR.
 
whitetailrick said:
FYI EVERYBODY in the last 20 years 9.6 million has been raised for wild sheep. 6.8 auction tags - 2.8 raffles 2024 auction prices Desert bh 430K - elk 501K -MD-600k- prog-90K couse 58K 50% more than raffle tags will generate. Arizona needs to double Resident and Nonresident tag prices to make up the difference so you guys can stop bitching about all the rich guys buying 1 tag.
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Are you an auctioneer by chance?

Your argument about money made by these tags is as weak as it gets. What is there to show for all that money? I’ll answer for you…not much that really matters in terms of conservation and herd #’s.
 
elkhunterUT said:
Are you an auctioneer by chance?

Your argument about money made by these tags is as weak as it gets. What is there to show for all that money? I’ll answer for you…not much that really matters in terms of conservation and herd #’s.
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AZ71 said:
MD numbers have never been lower, sheep numbers haven't exploded with all that money and Antelope numbers are terrible. Elk and the other species are doing just fine. AZGFD can easily make up that money with their limited tags they're offering. As for price increases they're probably way over due, can't remember the last time they increased any fees, but when they do they need to follow WY's lead and pass it on to the NR.
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MD are struggling and numbers and quality are down in most states. Sheep have a problem with diseases and predation. The problem with license money going to fish and game is used mostly for operating budgets. Tag and raffle $ goes to the SPECIES. You obviously don't volunteer for game projects or you would have seen these dollars at work.
 
whitetailrick said:
MD are struggling and numbers and quality are down in most states. Sheep have a problem with diseases and predation. The problem with license money going to fish and game is used mostly for operating budgets. Tag and raffle $ goes to the SPECIES. You obviously don't volunteer for game projects or you would have seen these dollars at work.
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You obviously are talking out your hind end…again!
I helped build this guzzler in 2022 on the Newfoundland Mtns with the Utah DWR and the Utah Wild Sheep Foundation.
IMG_5246.jpeg

Thanks for the clueless lecture though 🤦🏻
 
elkhunterUT said:
You obviously are talking out your hind end…again!
I helped build this guzzler in 2022 on the Newfoundland Mtns with the Utah DWR and the Utah Wild Sheep Foundation.
View attachment 141392
Thanks for the clueless lecture though 🤦🏻
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So you have seen where the funds go and are still apposed. Unfortunately money matters in the scheme of things. Those auction tags dollars will generate 2X the projects. But I guess this logic is lost in your righteousness. Thanks for YOUR lecture.
 
whitetailrick said:
So you have seen where the funds go and are still apposed. Unfortunately money matters in the scheme of things. Those auction tags dollars will generate 2X the projects. But I guess this logic is lost in your righteousness. Thanks for YOUR lecture.
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Of course funds are needed along with volunteer work to get this important/critical work done for wildlife. I 100% believe there are better ways to generate funds than through these Auction tags (e.g., raffles that everyone can participate in, etc.). The auction tags and big dollars associated with hunting and killing trophy animals at ANY cost are 100% what is wrong with hunting today.

Also, I am from Utah where these Auction tag and special interest groups have gotten so out of control with so many tags, that they actually dilute their value. There is no way on God's green earth that any state needs close to 500 auction tags. Utah is the perfect example to prove that big money generated by these auction tags has not impacted the resource or the sport in ways that matter most (e.g. herd increases, herd health, etc.). It can definitely be argued the auction tags bring more pain and headache than they are worth (guides/spotters on every ridge in the best units, combat/confrontational situations, trigger puller vs hunter, and on and on).
 
elkhunterUT said:
Of course funds are needed along with volunteer work to get this important/critical work done for wildlife. I 100% believe there are better ways to generate funds than through these Auction tags (e.g., raffles that everyone can participate in, etc.). The auction tags and big dollars associated with hunting and killing trophy animals at ANY cost are 100% what is wrong with hunting today.

Also, I am from Utah where these Auction tag and special interest groups have gotten so out of control with so many tags, that they actually dilute their value. There is no way on God's green earth that any state needs close to 500 auction tags. Utah is the perfect example to prove that big money generated by these auction tags has not impacted the resource or the sport in ways that matter most (e.g. herd increases, herd health, etc.). It can definitely be argued the auction tags bring more pain and headache than they are worth (guides/spotters on every ridge in the best units, combat/confrontational situations, trigger puller vs hunter, and on and on).
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Well said Sir!
 
My issue with gov tags has nothing to do with envy or dislike of someone having the money to buy one. I think it’s awesome that some dudes can afford to buy one, and I support that side of it completely.

Where gov tags are bad is all the hype and fakeness they bring to the sport. When gov tags starting gaining popularity, or more importantly price to buy them, I would say roughly 2005 era, is also when the sport starting getting cheesy also. There’s a direct correlation to fakeness and cheesiness in the sport in general with increased price of the tags. The more they fetch the more cheesy and fake the sport becomes. I’ve watched it grow over the years here in az. In the early years of 2000-2010 decade when gov tags were around low 100’s for mule deer or elk. It was so much less hyped than it was by 2010 when they had doubled. Guys selling the biggest animal they happened to find and all the cheese that comes along with the gov tags is what’s bad for the sport. It’s not the dude buying them that bothers me , it’s the wake of cheese that follows them. I’d rather the animals not have as much money on the ground and Clean up the sport some by getting rid of them.
Gov tags just somehow get underneath the sanctity of sport and mess things up. To many people out there trying to impress others , and not actually enjoying the sport themselves. Gov tags somehow someway just find a way to bring the whole sport down some almost subconsciously. There’s more people that hunt now only because of the creation of all the hype surrounding gov tags. Gov tags were like a steroid shot to the sport in the early 2000’s , but the consequences of all the hype And cheese were overall detrimental to the sports innocence. They changed the face of the sport itself.
You wouldn’t have all the blogs and such surrounding the sport without the gov tags. It would have stayed more innocent and far less cheese without them gaining not only price to buy them but popularity of who could be the ultra special dude to kill the giant that year. Nothing against the dude who bought it, and everything to do with the impact gov tags had on the Downfall of the sport itself.
 
Anybody that spends a lot of time hunting in Arizona with any brains at all knows that probably the biggest reason for horrible deer and antelope populations is because the Granola’s with money and power will not let us take care of the horrible predator population that we have. Add in burro’s out of control for the same reason.My brother moved to Utah for the hunting and fishing. I do not know if they still have the bounty for coyotes, but I know it was probably 15 years ago he told me that every dog got $ 50
 
couesmagnet said:
My issue with gov tags has nothing to do with envy or dislike of someone having the money to buy one. I think it’s awesome that some dudes can afford to buy one, and I support that side of it completely.

Where gov tags are bad is all the hype and fakeness they bring to the sport. When gov tags starting gaining popularity, or more importantly price to buy them, I would say roughly 2005 era, is also when the sport starting getting cheesy also. There’s a direct correlation to fakeness and cheesiness in the sport in general with increased price of the tags. The more they fetch the more cheesy and fake the sport becomes. I’ve watched it grow over the years here in az. In the early years of 2000-2010 decade when gov tags were around low 100’s for mule deer or elk. It was so much less hyped than it was by 2010 when they had doubled. Guys selling the biggest animal they happened to find and all the cheese that comes along with the gov tags is what’s bad for the sport. It’s not the dude buying them that bothers me , it’s the wake of cheese that follows them. I’d rather the animals not have as much money on the ground and Clean up the sport some by getting rid of them.
Gov tags just somehow get underneath the sanctity of sport and mess things up. To many people out there trying to impress others , and not actually enjoying the sport themselves. Gov tags somehow someway just find a way to bring the whole sport down some almost subconsciously. There’s more people that hunt now only because of the creation of all the hype surrounding gov tags. Gov tags were like a steroid shot to the sport in the early 2000’s , but the consequences of all the hype And cheese were overall detrimental to the sports innocence. They changed the face of the sport itself.
You wouldn’t have all the blogs and such surrounding the sport without the gov tags. It would have stayed more innocent and far less cheese without them gaining not only price to buy them but popularity of who could be the ultra special dude to kill the giant that year. Nothing against the dude who bought it, and everything to do with the impact gov tags had on the Downfall of the sport itself.
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Bad for the sport? Change the face of the sport? Sanctity of the sport? How about regular guys shooting 800 - 1200 yards+, muzzleloaders 600 yards + bows so technology easy that people pick one up first time and fire a dozen arrows and are experts, ,electric bikes , 4 wheelers running everywhere? Your kidding right? Ask the guys who volunteer putting in water resources for wildlife how important materials are? Auctions bring in at least double the money as raffles do. You are missing the point it takes money to improve conditions. Downfall of the sport? 5x harder to draw ANY tag these days. No I disagree with your premise, a lot of these tags are bought anonymously and do more good than harm. Blame the internet not auction tags.
 
Whitetailrick, agreed that regulars shooting 1000 yards , Muzzy’s shooting 600, and the archery equipment these days argument. But those are out bounds as far as being regulated. There isn’t an officer available to police who can or can’t shoot 1000 yards with a rifle or 600 yards with a Muzzy, or the incredible archery equipment. None of that can be policed or controlled. Wish it could but it cant.
I’ve been guiding in az since 1994. That doesn’t qualify me for having some kind of special opinion in any way , but in my opinion everything started getting crazy with the sport of hunting when the gov tags started fetching crazy numbers money wise. That drug so many diff people into the sport that never would have joined it. The whole giant money thing changed the sanctity of the sport. It brought it down not up. Kinda defiled it in my opinion.
So did cameras. Getting rid of cameras and the gov tags brings the sport more in line with what It was intended for, and takes it farther away from the dog and pony show it’s become. I don’t care if there’s less water sources, what I care about is removing the think layer of cheese from the sport itself. Tons of money flying around in any venue whether it’s a sport or activity always brings in lots of extra cheese.
The amount of water sources that have been installed from gov tag revenue over the last 30 years is awesome, and appreciated, but it’s time to move on with the gov tags. Arizona benefitted tremendously from the revenue created from the gov tags. We’ve got plenty of new water sources available now from that revenue. Now it’s time to move on and work on removing all the cheese that surrounds all the money flying around with the gov tags. Great thing for awhile now it’s time to move on. It will most certainly clean the sport up some removing them. We moved on from cameras, now it’s time to move on from gov tags. Just my opinion.
 
Noel Arnold, I agree with you. Predator control has a far bigger impact than water source availability. Far far more impact than new water sources.
If we could implement predator control again, we would have far more critters to hunt than any new amount of water sources could generate.
 
couesmagnet said:
Whitetailrick, agreed that regulars shooting 1000 yards , Muzzy’s shooting 600, and the archery equipment these days argument. But those are out bounds as far as being regulated. There isn’t an officer available to police who can or can’t shoot 1000 yards with a rifle or 600 yards with a Muzzy, or the incredible archery equipment. None of that can be policed or controlled. Wish it could but it cant.
I’ve been guiding in az since 1994. That doesn’t qualify me for having some kind of special opinion in any way , but in my opinion everything started getting crazy with the sport of hunting when the gov tags started fetching crazy numbers money wise. That drug so many diff people into the sport that never would have joined it. The whole giant money thing changed the sanctity of the sport. It brought it down not up. Kinda defiled it in my opinion.
So did cameras. Getting rid of cameras and the gov tags brings the sport more in line with what It was intended for, and takes it farther away from the dog and pony show it’s become. I don’t care if there’s less water sources, what I care about is removing the think layer of cheese from the sport itself. Tons of money flying around in any venue whether it’s a sport or activity always brings in lots of extra cheese.
The amount of water sources that have been installed from gov tag revenue over the last 30 years is awesome, and appreciated, but it’s time to move on with the gov tags. Arizona benefitted tremendously from the revenue created from the gov tags. We’ve got plenty of new water sources available now from that revenue. Now it’s time to move on and work on removing all the cheese that surrounds all the money flying around with the gov tags. Great thing for awhile now it’s time to move on. It will most certainly clean the sport up some removing them. We moved on from cameras, now it’s time to move on from gov tags. Just my opinion.
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First equipment can be controled
couesmagnet said:
Whitetailrick, agreed that regulars shooting 1000 yards , Muzzy’s shooting 600, and the archery equipment these days argument. But those are out bounds as far as being regulated. There isn’t an officer available to police who can or can’t shoot 1000 yards with a rifle or 600 yards with a Muzzy, or the incredible archery equipment. None of that can be policed or controlled. Wish it could but it cant.
I’ve been guiding in az since 1994. That doesn’t qualify me for having some kind of special opinion in any way , but in my opinion everything started getting crazy with the sport of hunting when the gov tags started fetching crazy numbers money wise. That drug so many diff people into the sport that never would have joined it. The whole giant money thing changed the sanctity of the sport. It brought it down not up. Kinda defiled it in my opinion.
So did cameras. Getting rid of cameras and the gov tags brings the sport more in line with what It was intended for, and takes it farther away from the dog and pony show it’s become. I don’t care if there’s less water sources, what I care about is removing the think layer of cheese from the sport itself. Tons of money flying around in any venue whether it’s a sport or activity always brings in lots of extra cheese.
The amount of water sources that have been installed from gov tag revenue over the last 30 years is awesome, and appreciated, but it’s time to move on with the gov tags. Arizona benefitted tremendously from the revenue created from the gov tags. We’ve got plenty of new water sources available now from that revenue. Now it’s time to move on and work on removing all the cheese that surrounds all the money flying around with the gov tags. Great thing for awhile now it’s time to move on. It will most certainly clean the sport up some removing them. We moved on from cameras, now it’s time to move on from gov tags. Just my opinion.
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First of all AZ HB 2073 that authorized wildlife tags for auction or raffle was passed in January 9, 2012. That is the bill that I can come up with(I may be wrong) So these tags have been around for only 12 years. The so called "cheese" and craziness has been around a lot longer than that. Per the bill ( you can read it) dollars will be spent NOT only on enhancing species sustainment and habitat. Youth sportsman education and access for sportsman to cross private land to public. So you are saying you are more concerned about the optics than about increasing habitat and research. I don't get your logic. If you think there is too many water sources use the funds for predator control, research, transplanting ,chaining, horse and burro removal. The "cheese" will just go to New Mexico and buy a land owner tag, Utah, or other states or a Indian reservation or Mexico and take their resources with them. BUT the hunting sanctity of Arizona will be preserved.
 
whitetailrick said:
FYI EVERYBODY in the last 20 years 9.6 million has been raised for wild sheep. 6.8 auction tags - 2.8 raffles 2024 auction prices Desert bh 430K - elk 501K -MD-600k- prog-90K couse 58K 50% more than raffle tags will generate. Arizona needs to double Resident and Nonresident tag prices to make up the difference so you guys can stop bitching about all the rich guys buying 1 tag.
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Since AZGF canceled the auction tags, they must have a plan to generate equal or greater revenue from another method. If they don't raise similar revenues, then that loss of revenue will have to be gained somewhere else through license and tag sales. They may vote to stick it to the NR's which seems to be a trend in every state, but residents won't be off the hook. NR's may not be able fund the entire loss of revenue. (not enough NR tags to make a dent)

It doesn't make any difference to me where the money comes from as long as the resource gets taken care of at similar or greater quality.

AZGF has decided shift the burden of conservation dollars revenue away from a hand full of wealthy donors to all hunters of AZ. That means everyone that participates will spend more to make up that loss of revenue, except the hand full of wealthy guys. They will just take their money somewhere else.
 
Buxndiverdux said:
Since AZGF canceled the auction tags, they must have a plan to generate equal or greater revenue from another method. If they don't raise similar revenues, then that loss of revenue will have to be gained somewhere else through license and tag sales. They may vote to stick it to the NR's which seems to be a trend in every state, but residents won't be off the hook. NR's may not be able fund the entire loss of revenue. (not enough NR tags to make a dent)

It doesn't make any difference to me where the money comes from as long as the resource gets taken care of at similar or greater quality.

AZGF has decided shift the burden of conservation dollars revenue away from a hand full of wealthy donors to all hunters of AZ. That means everyone that participates will spend more to make up that loss of revenue, except the hand full of wealthy guys. They will just take their money somewhere else.
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They don’t need the revenue, from auction tags. Thank A2 and the small army of folks posing with the grip and grins for the discontinuation of the opportunity. Instagram and the guides ruined it for themselves.
 
Buxndiverdux said:
Since AZGF canceled the auction tags, they must have a plan to generate equal or greater revenue from another method. If they don't raise similar revenues, then that loss of revenue will have to be gained somewhere else through license and tag sales. They may vote to stick it to the NR's which seems to be a trend in every state, but residents won't be off the hook. NR's may not be able fund the entire loss of revenue. (not enough NR tags to make a dent)

It doesn't make any difference to me where the money comes from as long as the resource gets taken care of at similar or greater quality.

AZGF has decided shift the burden of conservation dollars revenue away from a hand full of wealthy donors to all hunters of AZ. That means everyone that participates will spend more to make up that loss of revenue, except the hand full of wealthy guys. They will just take their money somewhere else.
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Buxndiverdux said:
Since AZGF canceled the auction tags, they must have a plan to generate equal or greater revenue from another method. If they don't raise similar revenues, then that loss of revenue will have to be gained somewhere else through license and tag sales. They may vote to stick it to the NR's which seems to be a trend in every state, but residents won't be off the hook. NR's may not be able fund the entire loss of revenue. (not enough NR tags to make a dent)

It doesn't make any difference to me where the money comes from as long as the resource gets taken care of at similar or greater quality.

AZGF has decided shift the burden of conservation dollars revenue away from a hand full of wealthy donors to all hunters of AZ. That means everyone that participates will spend more to make up that loss of revenue, except the hand full of wealthy guys. They will just take their money somewhere else.
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Amen, I have NO PROBLEM greatly increasing tag and general licenses. Most of the monies from auctions and raffles MUST go per legislation to wildlife habitat. License monies go to AZFG operations (I think).
 
Well your wrong.........guys that will dump 250K or more on auction tag have plenty of money......they will pay enough to get to 1 in 4 or 1 in 10 or whatever and there are several of them willing to do that........in the long run with a little luck they spend less money and get more tags..........and if the number of tickets bought is limited the raffle revenues are way down. Most people that buy these did not save for years to buy a governor tag........They have millions in disposable income every year to decide what to do with.
 
Romulus said:
Well your wrong.........guys that will dump 250K or more on auction tag have plenty of money......they will pay enough to get to 1 in 4 or 1 in 10 or whatever and there are several of them willing to do that........in the long run with a little luck they spend less money and get more tags..........and if the number of tickets bought is limited the raffle revenues are way down. Most people that buy these did not save for years to buy a governor tag........They have millions in disposable income every year to decide what to do with.
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More power to them if they do, I am thinking that the math is not going to work the way you think.
 
AZGuy said:
They don’t need the revenue, from auction tags. Thank A2 and the small army of folks posing with the grip and grins for the discontinuation of the opportunity. Instagram and the guides ruined it for themselves.
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I'm sure the guides loved the auction tag client$. Great marketing tools for them and lucrative hunts. Auction tags or not, these guides will still get their fair share of the top tags in AZ. The grip and grins will still be all over IG.

I do question that AZGF ("they") doesn't need the revenue? Auction tag revenue has been directed towards conservation projects. Not part of the AZGF operating budget.

License/tag sales have been directed to AZGF operating/administrative costs. We all know how bloated the budgets are when it comes to government anything.

This scenario has 2 losers if the loss of revenue cannot be reclaimed. #1 would be the wildlife. #2 would be anyone that hunts the State of Arizona.
 
Buxndiverdux said:
I'm sure the guides loved the auction tag client$. Great marketing tools for them and lucrative hunts. Auction tags or not, these guides will still get their fair share of the top tags in AZ. The grip and grins will still be all over IG.

I do question that AZGF ("they") doesn't need the revenue? Auction tag revenue has been directed towards conservation projects. Not part of the AZGF operating budget.

License/tag sales have been directed to AZGF operating/administrative costs. We all know how bloated the budgets are when it comes to government anything.

This scenario has 2 losers if the loss of revenue cannot be reclaimed. #1 would be the wildlife. #2 would be anyone that hunts the State of Arizona.
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You aren’t wrong with anything you say here.
I feel like the AZGFD will figure out a way way to replace the auction funds that were annually generated, but I could also be sorely mistaken.
 
HUNTINFORLIFE said:
Won’t matter. The same guys buying the gov tag will flood the raffles and likely draw these tags most years. Unless they limit the tickets that can be purchased by one person. Which will not bring in the money they are expecting to make up if that happens.
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Happened in Colorado this year.
 
longranger said:
Yep, a random dude on monster muleys writing a five word post saying it happened is pretty solid evidence that it did in fact happen. I'd definitely consider the case closed.
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But it did… Leo Goss killed 2 giant mule deer last year in Colorado.
 
longranger said:
You guys literally have no clue how many tickets those guys bought. They have as good of odds as anyone to get a raffle tag.
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But I literally do know someone who did exactly what we’re talking about. You keep telling me I don’t know him so maybe he’s just a figment of my imagination. Saw him last week, when I see him again I’ll ask him if he really exists for ya
 
Tikka said:
?
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oh yeah, one of the biggest poaching cases in AZ, well not just poaching, also benefiting off those animals that were illegally taken by being in magazines and other things. If people knew who he was theyd go nuts especially with the fact he has so much to say against other poachers lol
 
buscandomuleys said:
oh yeah, one of the biggest poaching cases in AZ, well not just poaching, also benefiting off those animals that were illegally taken by being in magazines and other things. If people knew who he was theyd go nuts especially with the fact he has so much to say against other poachers lol
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I'm hoping longranger isn't who you think he is... I've had good conversations with him discussing draw odds in Az... Always was pleasant to chat with...
Hopefully your thinking of someone else?
 
Tikka said:
I'm hoping longranger isn't who you think he is... I've had good conversations with him discussing draw odds in Az... Always was pleasant to chat with...
Hopefully your thinking of someone else?
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and people that tend to know the most are the ones that can get away with stuff just as easy imo
 
JPickett said:
But I literally do know someone who did exactly what we’re talking about. You keep telling me I don’t know him so maybe he’s just a figment of my imagination. Saw him last week, when I see him again I’ll ask him if he really exists for ya
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Can you explain how someone would accomplish this in Colorado with the cap of only 25 tickets per person? As I understand it, those raffle tags are non-transferrable, so they can't just buy tickets in other people's name and have them "gift" the tag back to them later.

I know guys who buy piles of tickets for the Washington and Oregon raffles, as purchases are unlimited. But they have the same odds as me in Colorado.
 
Mbogo said:
Can you explain how someone would accomplish this in Colorado with the cap of only 25 tickets per person? As I understand it, those raffle tags are non-transferrable, so they can't just buy tickets in other people's name and have them "gift" the tag back to them later.

I know guys who buy piles of tickets for the Washington and Oregon raffles, as purchases are unlimited. But they have the same odds as me in Colorado.
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No limit in Idaho. This particular person looked at the amount of tags sold every year and bought that many, or plus whatever to basically stack the odds so heavy it was a sure thing. Or at least a solid gamble to take

This was for the super hunt. So elk, deer, moose, pronghorn I think? If you added it all up it was tens of thousands less then if you bought those governor tag hunts individually. It worked, and apparently isn’t a one off. this was several years ago. But I’ve been told I’m wrong so I guess take it for what it’s worth
 
JPickett said:
No limit in Idaho. This particular person looked at the amount of tags sold every year and bought that many, or plus whatever to basically stack the odds so heavy it was a sure thing. Or at least a solid gamble to take

This was for the super hunt. So elk, deer, moose, pronghorn I think? If you added it all up it was tens of thousands less then if you bought those governor tag hunts individually. It worked, and apparently isn’t a one off. this was several years ago. But I’ve been told I’m wrong so I guess take it for what it’s worth
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Right. But I thought the conversation was specifically about Colorado?
elkmo41 said:
Happened in Colorado this year.
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JPickett said:
Impossible. I was told several times in this thread (despite having first hand knowledge) this could never happen
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I know someone who did exactly what you described for Idaho. He claimed, that despite there be no current sales total posted on the IDFG website, you can call in and they have to tell you current sales information. No idea if it's true but he has the money to do that kind of thing.
If you look at the raffle results posted for Oregon, the same people come up year after year in the top three selected for certain hunts. That's not luck. That's waiting until an hour before the raffle closes, seeing how many tickets have been sold, and then buying an equal amount, effectively giving them 50/50 odds. As long as someone else isn't doing it at the same time.
 
Sorry to start any drama guys, I just hate people trashing on people that have done the same things they have done. I apologize to longranger as well. I believe people can change and sure hope he has.
 
buscandomuleys said:
Sorry to start any drama guys, I just hate people trashing on people that have done the same things they have done. I apologize to longranger as well. I believe people can change and sure hope he has.
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Relax….you came to the right place if you like to stir the chit. You’re going to love the Utah forum. :ROFLMAO: Carry on (y)
 
So, just st so I understand. Does this mean Az won't have money to pay guys like Newberg, HUSH, Gritty, etc, etc, etc to push Az hunting?

Congrats to our brothers to the south. You'll never have the Serengeti like we do, but I'm guessing you'll manage
 
WOW! Karl must really like hunting in Idaho! About $115,000 for 10 tags! I wouldn't be able to spend (pun intended! :ROFLMAO: ) enough time in the field to enjoy and fill them all. But something tells me Karl kan afford an outfitter if he wants one.
 

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