2023 mule deer age reports/scores

Huntnful

Huntnful

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Here’s the 4 deer I took in 2023, as well as their confirmed lab ages and respective scores.

4.5 years old. 156”
IMG_0093.jpeg


5.5 years old. 171”
IMG_9436.jpeg


6.5 years old. 180”
IMG_9109.jpeg


5.5 years old. Didn’t score. Maybe 90” lol
IMG_2840.jpeg



I think it would be awesome for anyone that also got deer lab aged from last year (or any year really) to post pictures of them and their ages in this thread also. I think it’s very cool information, and hopefully others do too!!
 
Great info. How did you locate the labs to send the teeth in? Wish I did that with a few of mine and some elk out of state
 
I would be interested in the details of sending off a tooth so I could start doing this. Congratulations on all the bucks.
 
Yeah I should have included how to do it!!

You remove the bottom front two teeth (separately). All the way down to the roots. Basically keep tracing them down through the gums as deep as you can go. And they they just pop out by hand.

And then send them to matsons lab! Takes about 2 months to get the info back.
 
Huntnful said:
Here’s the 4 deer I took in 2023, as well as their confirmed lab ages and respective scores.

4.5 years old. 156”
View attachment 139774

5.5 years old. 171”
View attachment 139775

6.5 years old. 180”
View attachment 139776

5.5 years old. Didn’t score. Maybe 90” lol
View attachment 139777


I think it would be awesome for anyone that also got deer lab aged from last year (or any year really) to post pictures of them and their ages in this thread also. I think it’s very cool information, and hopefully others do too!!
Click to expand...
Very cool thanks for sharing!
 
SS! said:
Before anyone complains yes we know there’s a chance the lab results are wrong 😑
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Ya, that last buck- would've guessed was 3 years old, not 5. Area dependent or lab results issue I suppose.

Helluva one year haul! Nice...
 
HikeHunt61 said:
Ya, that last buck- would've guessed was 3 years old, not 5. Area dependent or lab results issue I suppose.

Helluva one year haul! Nice...
Click to expand...
I totally agree. I would have never guessed 5.5 either. Almost didn’t even get him aged. But figured what’s another $20. Turned out to be quite the surprise.

His nasal cavity had about 100 fly larva living in it. It was disgusting. I wonder if that had anything to do with his stunted antlers.

Of course age results could be wrong, but I’ll take them for what they say. Not all bucks are destined to be big, even with age. That’s definitely a fact.
 
Huntnful said:
I totally agree. I would have never guessed 5.5 either. Almost didn’t even get him aged. But figured what’s another $20. Turned out to be quite the surprise.

His nasal cavity had about 100 fly larva living in it. It was disgusting. I wonder if that had anything to do with his stunted antlers.

Of course age results could be wrong, but I’ll take them for what they say. Not all bucks are destined to be big, even with age. That’s definitely a fact.
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His stunted antlers probably had more to do with the fact that he was a three year old…. but I’ll digress for fear or SS! coming after me. Keep after it for 40-50 more deer and your data will be very good data.

Damn nice bucks by the way!!
 
yotebuster17 said:
His stunted antlers probably had more to do with the fact that he was a three year old…. but I’ll digress for fear or SS! coming after me. Keep after it for 40-50 more deer and your data will be very good data.

Damn nice bucks by the way!!
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Hahahaha he could very well be!!
 
Huntnful said:
Hahahaha he could very well be!!
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That’s the tricky part that kinda takes the fun out of it. It could be right, but then it also might not be. The tooth aging places claim 90% accuracy but there’s a bunch of studies out there in internet land that show 30-60% accuracy. It’s still worth doing and I started sending a bunch in as well as I want the long term macro data. Again. Damn nice bucks. That WY buck is a dream buck.
 
yotebuster17 said:
His stunted antlers probably had more to do with the fact that he was a three year old…. but I’ll digress for fear or SS! coming after me. Keep after it for 40-50 more deer and your data will be very good data.

Damn nice bucks by the way!!
Click to expand...
And there it is 😂

Most bucks don’t get big, I wouldn’t doubt that buck is 5. Guys that spend a lot of time watching the same animals know.
 
yotebuster17 said:
Most bucks that are 5 don’t have pedicles the size of nickels. Guys that spend a lot of time watching mule deer would know that.
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Most not all. Depends on the area, year, genetics etc. Curious to get your thoughts on sheep aging?
 
Good to know I wish I would have had my last three bucks aged, last two years I’ve stuck to frame size over anything and I’ve felt that I’ve shot older bucks… but without the lower jaw it’s hard to say
 
Huntnful said:
Here’s the 4 deer I took in 2023, as well as their confirmed lab ages and respective scores.

4.5 years old. 156”
View attachment 139774

5.5 years old. 171”
View attachment 139775

6.5 years old. 180”
View attachment 139776

5.5 years old. Didn’t score. Maybe 90” lol
View attachment 139777


I think it would be awesome for anyone that also got deer lab aged from last year (or any year really) to post pictures of them and their ages in this thread also. I think it’s very cool information, and hopefully others do too!!
Click to expand...
Very interesting, nutrition, age, genetics all play a role. Thanks for posting
 
Last few
Huntnful said:
Here’s the 4 deer I took in 2023, as well as their confirmed lab ages and respective scores.

4.5 years old. 156”
View attachment 139774

5.5 years old. 171”
View attachment 139775

6.5 years old. 180”
View attachment 139776

5.5 years old. Didn’t score. Maybe 90” lol
View attachment 139777


I think it would be awesome for anyone that also got deer lab aged from last year (or any year really) to post pictures of them and their ages in this thread also. I think it’s very cool information, and hopefully others do too!!
Click to expand...
This is great man! I'll toss in my last four WY deer with their ages, too. Love seeing this.

Wyoming Wildlife Federation does a series of deer ages found under their Instagram highlights for the last 3 years in case anyone is interested in that.

Login • Instagram

Welcome back to Instagram. Sign in to check out what your friends, family & interests have been capturing & sharing around the world.
www.instagram.com www.instagram.com
 
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yotebuster17 said:
Most bucks that are 5 don’t have pedicles the size of nickels. Guys that spend a lot of time watching mule deer would know that.
Click to expand...
My grandson is a great shot, both these bucks one shot 2020 & 2021. Both were tooth aged at the Laramie, Wy G&F lab. I guess great optics don't mean squat for aging muley bucks. 🤷‍♂️
First picture 6.5 yrs old, next pic in snow 7.5.
How's that for nickels?

DSC02968.jpg


DSC03176.jpg
 
jm77 said:
My grandson is a great shot, both these bucks one shot 2020 & 2021. Both were tooth aged at the Laramie, Wy G&F lab. I guess great optics don't mean squat for aging muley bucks. 🤷‍♂️
First picture 6.5 yrs old, next pic in snow 7.5.
How's that for nickels?

View attachment 140333

View attachment 140334
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Now this is the part where he says tooth data doesn’t matter unless you kill 100 😂

Too bad he doesn’t know the age of his sheep 😂
 
SS! said:
Now this is the part where he says tooth data doesn’t matter unless you kill 100 😂

Too bad he doesn’t know the age of his sheep 😂
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There isnt anyone that sees those two bucks and thinks they’re remotely close to 6.5 or 7.5 (the second one is much more mature then the first, compare the size of the face to the nose and the distance between bases) so I guess it just concretes the fact that tooth aging doesn’t work. The science behind it is bunk. My rocky was 13. I can show you when I get him back from the taxidermist. Biologist thought maybe he was 14 but said he’s never seen a ram come out of an alpine unit that was that old so he wrote down 13 as well, which is what we had him at. His last couple rings were like 1/4-1/2” so it was hard to tell on the last one.
 
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Here is a great peer reviewed article to read through if you’re interested in educating yourself. It explains the short comings of cementum annuli aging and why it works (somewhat decent) for population aging, but not for individual aging.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Precision of cementum annuli method for aging male white-tailed deer

The most common method used to estimate ages of harvested white-tailed deer (Odocoileus virginianus) and other cervids is a criterion based on tooth replacement-and-wear (TRW). Previous studies have shown this method is prone to considerable error because ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
yotebuster17 said:
There isnt anyone that sees those two bucks and thinks they’re remotely close to 6.5 or 7.5 (the second one is much more mature then the first, compare the size of the face to the nose and the distance between bases) so I guess it just concretes the fact that tooth aging doesn’t work. The science behind it is bunk. My rocky was 13. I can show you when I get him back from the taxidermist. Biologist thought maybe he was 14 but said he’s never seen a ram come out of an alpine unit that was that old so he wrote down 13 as well, which is what we had him at. His last couple rings were like 1/4-1/2” so it was hard to tell on the last one.
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So you’re willing to believe a biologist that looks at few rams a year than labs that focus on aging teeth full time? 🤡 Oh the irony.

Unless you cut that rams horns in half you will not know the true age of him. If not you have to kill at least 100 from that area and that’s not happening.

Sheep hunters are a funny bunch. They like to add age to their sheep, as some kind of dick measuring contest. But to find a sheep hunter so eager to call out other methods of aging that are likely more accurate? Well 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
 
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yotebuster17 said:
There isnt anyone that sees those two bucks and thinks they’re remotely close to 6.5 or 7.5 (the second one is much more mature then the first, compare the size of the face to the nose and the distance between bases) so I guess it just concretes the fact that tooth aging doesn’t work.
Click to expand...
I'm glad you were able to personally examine the two bucks in the photos. We are all now more educated with your expertise guiding us. I'll make sure in the future, when estimating a bucks age, to compare the size of the nose to the face and the distance between the bases. That will make the "guess" so much more scientific and shows examining crown wear on molars is a waste of time.

Does you method also work on elk?
 
jm77 said:
I'm glad you were able to personally examine the two bucks in the photos. We are all now more educated with your expertise guiding us. I'll make sure in the future, when estimating a bucks age, to compare the size of the nose to the face and the distance between the bases. That will make the "guess" so much more scientific and shows examining crown wear on molars is a waste of time.

Does you method also work on elk?
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Your grandson is a killer. The first buck isn’t 6.5, not even close. 3.5 almost for sure. 4.5 maybe. It’s a great buck, but the however they aged it in Laramie is wrong. Stop in there once and ask about the science of what they’re doing and how they do it. I’m sure they’d love to educate you on it a little. I could tell as a person with the same degree they have, but you obviously don’t want to hear it from me.
 
yotebuster17 said:
Your grandson is a killer. The first buck isn’t 6.5, not even close. 3.5 almost for sure. 4.5 maybe. It’s a great buck, but the however they aged it in Laramie is wrong. Stop in there once and ask about the science of what they’re doing and how they do it. I’m sure they’d love to educate you on it a little. I could tell as a person with the same degree they have, but you obviously don’t want to hear it from me.
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What you don't know, with your degree and all that arrogance, is the fall that first buck was killed was the third year in a row he was identifiable by his antlers. If the lab was wrong, it was a year at the most. Most likely they weren't based on his crown wear.
 
jm77 said:
What you don't know, with your degree and all that arrogance, is the fall that first buck was killed was the third year in a row he was identifiable by his antlers. If the lab was wrong, it was a year at the most. Most likely they weren't based on his crown wear.
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I would say arrogance is believing 100% that the answer you got from something that’s 60-80% successful is fact. Again, CA again works awesome for game and fish agencies that are using a large population of data to figure out trends in age. They will tell you and so will any biologist that with any one particular animal the data is more or less useless. I’d love to see some pics of this buck with his identifiable antlers on the 3 years leading up to your grandson killing him.
 
jm77 said:
What you don't know, with your degree and all that arrogance, is the fall that first buck was killed was the third year in a row he was identifiable by his antlers. If the lab was wrong, it was a year at the most. Most likely they weren't based on his crown wear.
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And with his degree he he’s blinded enough to believe a biologist who handles a few rams a year to tell him the age of his ram. And he takes that for 100% accuracy 😂😂😂

you can’t make this chit up
 
yotebuster17 said:
I would say arrogance is believing 100% that the answer you got from something that’s 60-80% successful is fact. Again, CA again works awesome for game and fish agencies that are using a large population of data to figure out trends in age. They will tell you and so will any biologist that with any one particular animal the data is more or less useless. I’d love to see some pics of this buck with his identifiable antlers on the 3 years leading up to your grandson killing him.
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How do you know that lab in Laramie is 60-80%? In the link you posted there was one that was 100% accurate. How accurate do you think the study was in your link provided? Are you saying all testing facilities would run 60%? Maybe they had interns doing the aging that day. Maybe they went with the cheapest labs? The ones with the least experience?

Tell us again the age of your ram 😂😂😂
 
SS! said:
And with his degree he he’s blinded enough to believe a biologist who handles a few rams a year to tell him the age of his ram. And he takes that for 100% accuracy 😂😂😂

you can’t make this chit up
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It sounds like you haven’t spent much time around mature high country bighorns, but it’s pretty simple to see the annuli, they just got stacked pretty tight at the bottom so that was the discrepancy between 13 and 14. I’ll post a pic and you can give me your thoughts on it.
 
yotebuster17 said:
I would say arrogance is believing 100% that the answer you got from something that’s 60-80% successful is fact.
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" If the lab was wrong, it was a year at the most."

That's me believing 100%. I'm sorry you can't process the idea you could be wrong about something and I feel sorry for anyone that has to put up with you on a daily basis. You are wrong about this. You never saw either of those bucks on the hoof and your arrogance that everything you speak is gospel is telling.
 
SS! said:
How do you know that lab in Laramie is 60-80%? In the link you posted there was one that was 100% accurate. How accurate do you think the study was in your link provided? Are you saying all testing facilities would run 60%? Maybe they had interns doing the aging that day. Maybe they went with the cheapest labs? The ones with the least experience?

Tell us again the age of your ram 😂😂😂
Click to expand...
There’s a difference between studies and labs. Labs are the businesses doing the work, studies are peer reviewed, evidence based collections of data that are put together to verify data. There isn’t a lab that is 100%. There was one old study with a small sample size that was 100%. You’d know that if you read the whole thing, or had a background in science or biology.
 
yotebuster17 said:
There’s a difference between studies and labs. Labs are the businesses doing the work, studies are peer reviewed, evidence based collections of data that are put together to verify data. There isn’t a lab that is 100%. There was one old study with a small sample size that was 100%. You’d know that if you read the whole thing, or had a background in science or biology.
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Where did I say one was 100%. But you’re saying they are all 60 to 80 at best? 😂

It doesn’t take a background in science or biology to catch someone’s BS. In any industry there are some that excel above the others. Could be medical clinic, construction company, restaurant etc.

You’re putting all of them in the same class.
 
yotebuster17 said:
It sounds like you haven’t spent much time around mature high country bighorns, but it’s pretty simple to see the annuli, they just got stacked pretty tight at the bottom so that was the discrepancy between 13 and 14. I’ll post a pic and you can give me your thoughts on it.
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Mature high country bighorns . Hahaha love it when a guy has to add to chit to make it seem hard.

Should of added mature hot weather, bug infested, selfie taking high country above tree line, north faced, kuiu wearing, extreme thirst bighorn.

😂😂

You must have 100 bighorns… I mean “high country” bighorns under your belt 😂
 
coloradoman said:
Man you guys can fight about anything! 🤣
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There is no fight...

EVERY big Muley slayer knows! The only accurate judge of age on big bucks is done by the Bruja in the back mens bathroom stall at the donkey show in TJ.

You take her the buck in questions testicles. She chews them up then spits them into a bowl made from a Chupacabra skull containing finger bones from her ancestors. Then asks a few pertinent questions such as distance between bases, face to nose measurements, pedicle diameter...etc...

She is %100!

For a bit of extra coin you get a happy ending..
 
On the hoof aging of deer and sheep is tough. Post mortem aging is really tough on deer. With sheep it tends to be a little more accurate depending on the species of sheep and where it was taken.

The most accurate aging of deer occurs when someone trained to do it, compiles years of trend data on a specific area. Usually after about 5 years you can start to narrow your guesses. Even then you will run into some crazy outliers in your data.

Take that same biologist and move him 100 miles and make him start slapping ages on those deer and about the best you can expect is "pre-mature, mature, post-mature" estimates.

Looking at bisected incisors is bogus for the most part. Works well with study deer in pens. Not so well with wild deer.
 
Giddyup said:
I watched and hunted this buck. Even helped quarter him out. He was young. Just makes me wonder how big could he have gotten with a few more years
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I looked at that buck again and yes I guess it’s possible it was 3.5. But was this buck a 20” 4x4 when it was 1.5 years old? Maybe the body was just small. So what is the scenario here? 20” heavy horned 4x4 at 1.5. 26” with a half dozen cheaters at 2.5 and the 36” at 3.5.

Someone give me a believable progression assuming it wasn’t fed steroids daily.

Having said that, after looking a second time it does have a younger look, not as tall as I thought at first and antlers don’t look as developed. Whether it is three or four, I agree it is scary what it might have been in a year or two.
 
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There is a study done between Montana St and WG&F labs for tooth aging and the WG&F lab was proven to be very accurate. The study was based on deer with known ages. I can't find it but I know it was done.
His link sites a WT deer study does it not, not mule deer?

We've had deer aged for about 30 years now, when the lab was getting started. Only very few occasions I would second guess their results.

2023, 5.5 yrs
DSCN2267 copy.jpg


2022, 7.5 yrs

DSCN1444 copy.jpg


8.5 yrs, I think 2017
DSCN1123 copy.jpg
 
Betterluckythangood said:
I looked at that buck again and yes I guess it’s possible it was 3.5. But was this buck a 20” 4x4 when it was 1.5 years old? Maybe the body was just small. So what is the scenario here? 20” heavy horned 4x4 at 1.5. 26” with a half dozen cheaters at 2.5 and the 36” at 3.5.

Someone give me a believable progression assuming it wasn’t fed steroids daily.
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Your progression doesn't sound unreasonable to me. I shot a three year old whitetail that scored in the 170's. Was a small five point as a yearling, a 135 inch five point with a small sticker as a two year old and a six point typical with three stickers as a three year old.
 

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