Some Big Money At The WSF This Year WOW!!!!

I want to hear the backstory on the $600k CO bighorn tag…..I can only assume somebody has a big one tied to a tree somewhere.
 
The rams

Screenshot_20240122-152457~2.png
 
I love it…a Chinese menu in the name of conservation (y)

The hunt should be EPIC. And for clarification, I hate the game not the playah ;)
 
Pre-64 said:
Why did Wyoming’s sell for so much less than everywhere else?
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I think they only let you hunt units with like 12 or more tags if I remember right and I think they’ve gotta stay in bounds of the season. I could be wrong on that though. The way I see it, that person is gonna kill a sheep with that tag regardless, so let em have a long season statewide and raise a few hundred grand more each year. That’ll make a few more tags for the rest of us.
 
Jeff Demaske killed a booner on that same property a few years ago. It is what it is but I wouldn't call it much of a hunt. Definitely not your typical sheep hunt by any means
 
SS! said:
That’s what they want you to believe no doubt.
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Or you can act like it’s some big conspiracy. I’m not sure what industry you’re in or what world you live in, but $500,000 can do more work then $200 in all sectors of the world, public and private and that absolutely cannot be argued. You can argue that they piss away half of it. Ok fine, still $250,000 > $200. The fact of the matter is they don’t have enough sheep to sell even remotely close to the the amount of tags it would require to fund sheep conservation at with resident general tags. The fact that these programs exist is why we have a vast majority of the funding we have to keep the sheep we have on the mountain and put more there.
 
yotebuster17 said:
Or you can act like it’s some big conspiracy. I’m not sure what industry you’re in or what world you live in, but $500,000 can do more work then $200 in all sectors of the world, public and private and that absolutely cannot be argued. You can argue that they piss away half of it. Ok fine, still $250,000 > $200. The fact of the matter is they don’t have enough sheep to sell even remotely close to the the amount of tags it would require to fund sheep conservation at with resident general tags. The fact that these programs exist is why we have a vast majority of the funding we have to keep the sheep we have on the mountain and put more there.
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you’re entitled to your opinion. Thanks for sharing.
 
fullcry said:
New Mexico also went for $600,000
Several in the $300,000s
10 went over $200,000
Insane
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I tend to agree with yotebuster. Even if half the money goes to the resource it's a win.

As to the amount these people are spending, I bet it's no more then some of us spend on a guided hunt in relative percentage of family budget.
For example, three years ago I drew a very hard to draw NM elk tag and due to an application issue with my BIL I was solo. It was to be my first western hunt since my youth when stationed at Kirtland AFB in ABQ. After some discussion, my wife of 3 months insisted I hire a guide for safety and to make the most of the tag. I took her up on that and did so. I'd wager that $5k was a greater percentage of my family budget then $600k was from ole boy who bought the sheep tag.

Just a thought.
 
Slick8 said:
I tend to agree with yotebuster. Even if half the money goes to the resource it's a win.

As to the amount these people are spending, I bet it's no more then some of us spend on a guided hunt in relative percentage of family budget.
For example, three years ago I drew a very hard to draw NM elk tag and due to an application issue with my BIL I was solo. It was to be my first western hunt since my youth when stationed at Kirtland AFB in ABQ. After some discussion, my wife of 3 months insisted I hire a guide for safety and to make the most of the tag. I took her up on that and did so. I'd wager that $5k was a greater percentage of my family budget then $600k was from ole boy who bought the sheep tag.

Just a thought.
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I would wager it was even less. Also remember that these are just shy of 100% tax deductible so they’re taking 40% off of that right out of the gate. I know I’d rather see that 40% go to sheep then to the federal govt, but it sounds like guys like SS! would rather that tag be sold to a resident in the draw for $200 and the feds use the money for cell phones for illegal immigrants and the sheep can just fend for themselves.
 
yotebuster17 said:
I would wager it was even less. Also remember that these are just shy of 100% tax deductible so they’re taking 40% off of that right out of the gate. I know I’d rather see that 40% go to sheep then to the federal govt, but it sounds like guys like SS! would rather that tag be sold to a resident in the draw for $200 and the feds use the money for cell phones for illegal immigrants and the sheep can just fend for themselves.
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They are not “shy of 100%” tax deductible either. While you may find a CPA that will write that off if the IRS decides to audit you you’re going to be paying. Buying an auction tag is not a charitable contribution. You are getting something in return. I bet you likely don’t know what a write off is or does. Take some time to look up what qualifies for a charity contribution. You can write off your new SXS too, or your Disneyland vacation. But it will be you on the hook once the IRS visits you.

More money doesn’t make more sheep.

And if it’s truly for conservation why can’t they just donate money without having to get something in return? If one truly cares about something why not help out without asking for something in return? People do it all the time. People donate millions for causes and don’t ask for anything back. But most these these guys don’t care about sheep. They ain’t coughing up money unless they are getting something in return. Some care most don’t.

I’m glad the money raised from the WSF transplanted Missouri breaks bighorns to Taos New Mexico where it’s over 80k to hunt them. Or the recent transplant to private land in Texas where it’s 70k to hunt them. Gotta have spots for the runner up to go get his slam. Look how many public tags are in those two areas. Take a guess. Don’t be shy. I could give a few more examples.

Govt tags do not put more public tags out there.

Carry on. I have two sheep hunts (so far) this fall and neither are because of gov tags or W$F.
 
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SS! said:
They are not “shy of 100%” tax deductible either. While you may find a CPA that will write that off if the IRS decides to audit you you’re going to be paying. Buying an auction tag is not a charitable contribution. You are getting something in return. I bet you likely don’t know what a write off is or does. Take some time to look up what qualifies for a charity contribution. You can write off your new SXS too, or your Disneyland vacation. But it will be you on the hook once the IRS visits you.

More money doesn’t make more sheep.

And if it’s truly for conservation why can’t they just donate money without having to get something in return? If one truly cares about something why not help out without asking for something in return? People do it all the time. People donate millions for causes and don’t ask for anything back. But most these these guys don’t care about sheep. They ain’t coughing up money unless they are getting something in return. Some care most don’t.

I’m glad the money raised from the WSF transplanted Missouri breaks bighorns to Taos New Mexico where it’s over 80k to hunt them. Or the recent transplant to private land in Texas where it’s 70k to hunt them. Gotta have spots for the runner up to go get his slam. Look how many public tags are in those two areas. Take a guess. Don’t be shy. I could give a few more examples.

Govt tags do not put more public tags out there.

Carry on. I have two sheep hunts (so far) this fall and neither are because of gov tags or W$F.
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I appreciate your accounting lessons. I have in fact bought auction tags myself and they are tax deductible minus the face value of the tag (which is probably $100-1200) if it’s included in the price so that’s why I said “nearly 100%”.
I’ve killed two sheep, one of which is in an area of desert in AZ that would NOT have sheep in it without question if it weren’t for fundraising dollars brought in from auction tags. Both were public draw tags since it seems to matter so much to you. If you wanna have a dick measuring contest regarding whether or not I “know what a write off is or does” then let’s whip em out. Until then just continue on with your belief that somehow $250k is less then $200.
 
yotebuster17 said:
I appreciate your accounting lessons. I have in fact bought auction tags myself and they are tax deductible minus the face value of the tag (which is probably $100-1200) if it’s included in the price so that’s why I said “nearly 100%”.
I’ve killed two sheep, one of which is in an area of desert in AZ that would NOT have sheep in it without question if it weren’t for fundraising dollars brought in from auction tags. Both were public draw tags since it seems to matter so much to you. If you wanna have a dick measuring contest regarding whether or not I “know what a write off is or does” then let’s whip em out. Until then just continue on with your belief that somehow $250k is less then $200.
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People deduct everything on their taxes. Big deal. It’s not going to end well for you once audited. Just saying. Maybe they will not catch it?

Congrats on the two sheep! Can you specify which auction tag from what year was earmarked for the guzzler/transplant put in for the ram you killed? Are you sure it was auction tag money? There’s a lot of organizations doing great things. Never said they didn’t. But don’t try to blow smoke up our ass saying if it wasn’t for the gov tags those projects wouldn’t of happened.

I’m not sure where you’re getting the 200? I didn’t say that. Why can’t all the govt tags be fair and have raffle tickets? RMBS raffles one off and so does Alaska. Couldn’t we raise more money? Think if the winner this year was willing to spend 600k and the guy he beat 500k and so on think how much more money can be raised? But instead we go with an out dated system of highest bidder? Put no cap on the raffle tickets and let’s really put some money towards “conservation”.

But it’s not about that. It’s about getting the big rams for the big paying guys.

Hope you get to go sheep hunting again, two sheep hunts is a great start.
 
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yotebuster17 said:
Or you can act like it’s some big conspiracy. I’m not sure what industry you’re in or what world you live in, but $500,000 can do more work then $200 in all sectors of the world, public and private and that absolutely cannot be argued. You can argue that they piss away half of it. Ok fine, still $250,000 > $200. The fact of the matter is they don’t have enough sheep to sell even remotely close to the the amount of tags it would require to fund sheep conservation at with resident general tags. The fact that these programs exist is why we have a vast majority of the funding we have to keep the sheep we have on the mountain and put more there.
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Before I get all wrapped up in this argument, does anyone know who the actual beneficiary of JJ’s money is?

If it’s CPW, well we can have a lively discussion about their budget and how much of it goes toward reintroduction efforts :rolleyes:
 
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I believe the governors tag money goes to CPW but is only to be used for that specific species. Someone can chime in if it works differently
 
yotebuster17 said:
I appreciate your accounting lessons. I have in fact bought auction tags myself and they are tax deductible minus the face value of the tag (which is probably $100-1200) if it’s included in the price so that’s why I said “nearly 100%”.
I’ve killed two sheep, one of which is in an area of desert in AZ that would NOT have sheep in it without question if it weren’t for fundraising dollars brought in from auction tags. Both were public draw tags since it seems to matter so much to you. If you wanna have a dick measuring contest regarding whether or not I “know what a write off is or does” then let’s whip em out. Until then just continue on with your belief that somehow $250k is less then $200.
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Are you saying if I buy an auction tag for $25,000 that I can write off nearly 100%, Like say $23,000?

Cause if that's the game then why aren't the average Joe's jumping on these tags like crazy?
 
Bluehair said:
Before I get all wrapped up in this argument, does anyone know who the actual beneficiary of JJ’s money is?

If it’s CPW, well we can have a lively discussion about their budget and how much of it goes toward reintroduction efforts :rolleyes:
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It depends on the tag, the venue and the organization. Typically the organization that is running it gets it, or its shared with the G&F for that state in a percent.
 
elkantlers said:
Are you saying if I buy an auction tag for $25,000 that I can write off nearly 100%, Like say $23,000?

Cause if that's the game then why aren't the average Joe's jumping on these tags like crazy?
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It’s still a write off, so you’ve gotta have the money to spend. If you’re in a 25% tax bracket and you buy a tag that is $10,200 and the face value of the tag if you got it from the state is $200, then $10,000 of it is a charitable donation so you’ve got $7500 into the tag out of pocket. If you’re buying a guided hunt or something of that effect it’s different because then you have a tangible product with a given value so whatever you “overpay” for it is your charitable donation, so if it’s a $10k outfitted hunt and you pay $15k for it you have $5k that’s charitable donation.
 
yotebuster17 said:
It depends on the tag, the venue and the organization. Typically the organization that is running it gets it, or its shared with the G&F for that state in a percent.
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I know, that’s why I asked.

If it went to CPW, it didn’t even pay for the woofs this year.

But they didn’t need anyone to pay for the woofs because of the massive budget surplus they ran this year.

So a rich guy jumps to the head of the line while the rest of us finance the pyramid scheme $50 or $100 bucks a year. And he takes it off his taxes :rolleyes:

There needs to be an asterisk in the vanity book.
 
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It would be nice to know what the ratio of raffle tickets bought vs won would be. I guess some insiders would know. No issue, one is all you need. I do remember some years back there was a limited amount (not sure which org it was) and some guy damn near bought them all and won.
 
yotebuster17 said:
It’s still a write off, so you’ve gotta have the money to spend. If you’re in a 25% tax bracket and you buy a tag that is $10,200 and the face value of the tag if you got it from the state is $200, then $10,000 of it is a charitable donation so you’ve got $7500 into the tag out of pocket. If you’re buying a guided hunt or something of that effect it’s different because then you have a tangible product with a given value so whatever you “overpay” for it is your charitable donation, so if it’s a $10k outfitted hunt and you pay $15k for it you have $5k that’s charitable donation.
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Show me a govt tag that has a value of 200 please. Wait let’s use your term “face value”. Are you telling me there’s a gov tag out there that has a face value of 200? Please share!

Of course you can’t. Good way to get in a lot of trouble with the IRS
 
I’m no expert, but I believe if the money spent goes towards a government agency ( CPW) then it can be written off. Correct me if I’m wrong. And I can’t believe I’m actually going to say this, but I actually agree with SS. This whole rich man’s game of auctioning tags pisses people off every year. In my opinion it really should be raffled. That way at least everyone that wants to spend say 25 bucks would have a crack at it. And before anyone says it, I’m fully aware that there are already tags that are up for raffle.
 
Using yotebusters theory of face value all those people buying coins, baseball cards, etc better write off their purchases because they are “over face value”. 😂😂😂😂
 
Gadjet said:
I’m no expert, but I believe if the money spent goes towards a government agency ( CPW) then it can be written off. Correct me if I’m wrong. And I can’t believe I’m actually going to say this, but I actually agree with SS. This whole rich man’s game of auctioning tags pisses people off every year. In my opinion it really should be raffled. That way at least everyone that wants to spend say 25 bucks would have a crack at it. And before anyone says it, I’m fully aware that there are already tags that are up for raffle.
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I’m glad you can be mature and look past our disagreements on wolves. 😂
 
SS! said:
Using yotebusters theory of face value all those people buying coins, baseball cards, etc better write off their purchases because they are “over face value”. 😂😂😂😂
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If they buy something from a 501c3 event and pay more then market value then they can. Why do you think the online hunting auctions always have a value posted on the non tag items they have listed? Also, if you had ever donated any type of money at a fundraiser, you’d know this, but they’ll send you a form that shows your charitable donation and the “fair market” value of whatever the item is for you to give to your accountant. I bought a $50 bill at a fundraiser for our Science center fundraiser and they gave me a receipt saying I paid $2000 for it and the value of it was $50. That’s a fairly elementary example that I figured you’d maybe be able to keep up. Now just change out $50 bill for $200 sheep tag and you’ll get the gist I think.
 
yotebuster17 said:
It’s still a write off, so you’ve gotta have the money to spend. If you’re in a 25% tax bracket and you buy a tag that is $10,200 and the face value of the tag if you got it from the state is $200, then $10,000 of it is a charitable donation so you’ve got $7500 into the tag out of pocket. If you’re buying a guided hunt or something of that effect it’s different because then you have a tangible product with a given value so whatever you “overpay” for it is your charitable donation, so if it’s a $10k outfitted hunt and you pay $15k for it you have $5k that’s charitable donation.
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I hope you have your taxes professionally done. And that your guy is paid up on his malpractice insurance. Because you will lose this on audit.

Only a charitable contribution to the extent your "donation" exceeded FMV (fair market value). The other guys in the room bidding up to $10,200 helped establish that $10,200 is the FMV of the tag.
 
Crampy said:
I hope you have your taxes professionally done. And that your guy is paid up on his malpractice insurance. Because you will lose this on audit.

Only a charitable contribution to the extent your "donation" exceeded FMV (fair market value). The other guys in the room bidding up to $10,200 helped establish that $10,200 is the FMV of the tag.
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Good lord. Those other guys are making a donation. This has been done by every single person that’s ever gone to a fundraiser for the last 100 years. So in the example I gave you of the $50 bill, I got bid up to $2000 for it. You saying my $50 bill is worth $1950? They do it every time to make sure people in the audience understand that “this is a fundraiser, open your wallets and pay MORE then the fair market value for things”. Also, I’ve gotten a receipt from every single major donation I’ve made that had an item, be it a $50 bill or a gov tag, that says what the fair market value is, what the donation amount was, and what the charitable donation balance was for my accountant. Again, same as I said to SS!, get out and donate some money sometime and you’ll know these things.
 
yotebuster17 said:
If they buy something from a 501c3 event and pay more then market value then they can. Why do you think the online hunting auctions always have a value posted on the non tag items they have listed? Also, if you had ever donated any type of money at a fundraiser, you’d know this, but they’ll send you a form that shows your charitable donation and the “fair market” value of whatever the item is for you to give to your accountant. I bought a $50 bill at a fundraiser for our Science center fundraiser and they gave me a receipt saying I paid $2000 for it and the value of it was $50. That’s a fairly elementary example that I figured you’d maybe be able to keep up. Now just change out $50 bill for $200 sheep tag and you’ll get the gist I think.
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You are correct. I’ve written off the extra paid over market value many times for over 30 years.

For SS!, the market value is not what it goes for at auction. For IRS purposes, it’s what you paid over what you would have paid if you drew the tag in the state draw.
 
Tmac said:
For SS!, the market value is not what it goes for at auction. For IRS purposes, it’s what you paid over what you would have paid if you drew the tag in the state draw.
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you can’t draw a gov tag. It’s not apples to apples comparison. Now if they took a unit 10 elk tag that one can draw and auction it off you are correct.
 
SS! said:
you can’t draw a gov tag. It’s not apples to apples comparison. Now if they took a unit 10 elk tag that one can draw and auction it off you are correct.
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You aren’t backing down on this are you bro? You are wrong. Just admit it and move on. You are buying an ELK tag. If it’s $650 for a NR in the state of AZ then that’s the fair market value. Some tags are good for 1 unit, some are good for 5 or 6 units, some have short seasons, some have long seasons. The ones they sell to guys that you’re so jealous of that have 365 day seasons and you can hunt 30 units are still $650 elk tags you just gotta donate another $499,350 to get one like that.
 
yotebuster17 said:
You aren’t backing down on this are you bro? You are wrong. Just admit it and move on. You are buying an ELK tag. If it’s $650 for a NR in the state of AZ then that’s the fair market value. Some tags are good for 1 unit, some are good for 5 or 6 units, some have short seasons, some have long seasons. The ones they sell to guys that you’re so jealous of that have 365 day seasons and you can hunt 30 units are still $650 elk tags you just gotta donate another $499,350 to get one like that.
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Calm down. You’re upset because someone called you out on your BS. You have to make false claims against me which furthers my point. And the fact you couldn’t answer simple questions shows your fandom blurs your senses even more.

Keep thinking gov tags are good for the sheep. Maybe if you’re lucky Sayer or JJ will sign a photo of them with their ram for you. Or shake your hand at sheep show.

Don’t forget to post your two rams every other Friday on #fullcurlfriday either. 😂
 
SS! said:
Calm down. You’re upset because someone called you out on your BS. You have to make false claims against me which furthers my point. And the fact you couldn’t answer simple questions shows your fandom blurs your senses even more.

Keep thinking gov tags are good for the sheep. Maybe if you’re lucky Sayer or JJ will sign a photo of them with their ram for you. Or shake your hand at sheep show.

Don’t forget to post your two rams every other Friday on #fullcurlfriday either. 😂
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That’s an interesting way of saying “man I guess I WAS wrong and I don’t know my head from my a55”.
Seriously, go to a fundraiser, anywhere for anything, and donate some money for some type of cause. You’ll feel better about yourself, and you’ll learn a few things.
 
yotebuster17 said:
That’s an interesting way of saying “man I guess I WAS wrong and I don’t know my head from my a55”.
Seriously, go to a fundraiser, anywhere for anything, and donate some money for some type of cause. You’ll feel better about yourself, and you’ll learn a few things.
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There you go assuming again.

IMG_0722.jpeg
 
Tmac said:
You are correct. I’ve written off the extra paid over market value many times for over 30 years.

For SS!, the market value is not what it goes for at auction. For IRS purposes, it’s what you paid over what you would have paid if you drew the tag in the state draw.
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You have been lucky that the IRS did not choose your return to audit.

FMV is what a willing buyer would pay for that item in the open market.

This year, the FMV of a CO gov sheep tag is $600,000. That room at WSF is the best open market for such tags and established the FMV.

If you over-pay (say, $500) for a Yeti cooler at WSF auction and pay more than the $399 MSRP on their estimate/receipt. Then yes, you can deduct $101.

There is no way that WSF gave the guys that paid $600,000 a receipt that said the estimated value was the face value of the state tag. But they would provide a letter to see your tax advisor.

Outfitters and others love to talk about tax deductibility. They aren't signing your tax return for you.
 
I assure you they are all writing it off 100%.......they have the money to pay the tax and penalty later if it gets caught...They don't worry.....or care
 
Homer you are correct, every one of these guys is writing it all off,I know for a fact they hand you a letter with all of it explained out.
Don’t bother to teach these guys anything.They don’t get it.
 
BuzzH said:
Because you actually have to hunt sheep.

Also anyone that thinks all this money is putting more sheep on the mountain is living in denial.

There's less tags issued in both Wyoming and Montana now than when I started hunting in 1979, way less.
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About to be less when we can’t control cats.
 
BuzzH said:
Because you actually have to hunt sheep.

Also anyone that thinks all this money is putting more sheep on the mountain is living in denial.

There's less tags issued in both Wyoming and Montana now than when I started hunting in 1979, way less.
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Interestingly enough, those are the two states who sell the fewest and most restrictive conservation tags….. maybe just a coincidence 🤷🏻‍♂️

Sheep need habitat and to be away from domestic sheep. Achieving both of those requires cash. If people would put as much rage into the rich people buying up all the winter range and turning it into housing as they do the rich people buying a few sheep tags at benefit auctions, we might actually stand a chance at having sheep to hunt in 100 years.
 
yotebuster17 said:
Interestingly enough, those are the two states who sell the fewest and most restrictive conservation tags….. maybe just a coincidence 🤷🏻‍♂️

Sheep need habitat and to be away from domestic sheep. Achieving both of those requires cash. If people would put as much rage into the rich people buying up all the winter range and turning it into housing as they do the rich people buying a few sheep tags at benefit auctions, we might actually stand a chance at having sheep to hunt in 100 years.
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Were you just not a "passionate" sheep hunter or playing Rip Van Winkle when Montana's gov. tags were setting sales records? All that money for all those years and less sheep tags.

I'm not opposed to a small number of governors tags, but the money they've raised has not increased sheep hunting opportunity in either Montana or Wyoming.

The numbers don't lie, when I moved to Wyoming there were over 400 ram tags issued, about 180 last year. Same with Montana.

Sorry the facts don't reconcile with your desired outcome of more money equals more sheep.

Oh and being restrictive on Wyoming governors tags is not why they don't sell for as much. Like I said, it's because you have to actually hunt. Combined with average sized rams, the saviors of wild sheep aren't interested. What they're interested in is total inches as easy as possible.

Which is really too bad, if they gave a single chit about what they claim to, saving native herds and the experience, the Wyoming tags should be their top choice.
 
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BuzzH said:
Were you just not a "passionate" sheep hunter or playing Rip Van Winkle when Montana's gov. tags were setting sales records? All that money for all those years and less sheep tags.

I'm not opposed to a small number of governors tags, but the money they've raised has not increased sheep hunting opportunity in either Montana or Wyoming.

The numbers don't lie, when I moved to Wyoming there were over 400 ram tags issued, about 180 last year. Same with Montana.

Sorry the facts don't reconcile with your desired outcome of more money equals more sheep.

Oh and being restrictive on Wyoming governors tags is not why they don't sell for as much. Like I said, it's because you have to actually hunt. Combined with average sized rams, the saviors of wild sheep aren't interested. What they're interested in is total inches as easy as possible.

Which is really too bad, if they gave a single chit about what they claim to, saving native herds and the experience, the Wyoming tags should be their top choice.
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Bingo. You can't drive around and shoot a book ram from your truck in Wyoming. These tags have also never been about conservation they are about buying a huge ram and the easier the better.
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
Bingo. You can't drive around and shoot a book ram from your truck in Wyoming. These tags have also never been about conservation they are about buying a huge ram and the easier the better.
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That may be true, but take the tame sheep units out of the equation, and I'd still prefer to have a CO sheep tag vs WY. Oh, and trust me, I'm getting out of the truck.

Sad thing in WY, you have to stop at some imaginary line in the sand and fork up extra cash for some goober to make sure you cross said line and get back safely. Screw WY and their BS. CO, MT, much better for a DIY guy.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
That may be true, but take the tame sheep units out of the equation, and I'd still prefer to have a CO sheep tag vs WY. Oh, and trust me, I'm getting out of the truck.

Sad thing in WY, you have to stop at some imaginary line in the sand and fork up extra cash for some goober to make sure you cross said line and get back safely. Screw WY and their BS. CO, MT, much better for a DIY guy.
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For people who aren't total Richard Craniums, there's an easy way to get across that imaginary line for free.

Not taking anything away from Colorado sheep hunting, but the experience of hunting sheep in NW Wyoming and the unlimited areas in Montana can't be topped. Not even close. BTDT.
 
BuzzH said:
For people who aren't total Richard Craniums, there's an easy way to get across that imaginary line for free.
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Yeah, yeah, so one of my friends up in WY can hold my hand. Sorry, I like mountain hunts without red tape. Not that the "line" is an issue for any of the auction guys, but maybe some of them still like to do things themselves.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
Yeah, yeah, so one of my friends up in WY can hold my hand. Sorry, I like mountain hunts without red tape. Not that the "line" is an issue for any of the auction guys, but maybe some of them still like to do things themselves.
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Wyoming isn't for you sounds like. Good deal.
 
BuzzH said:
Imaginary lines and red tape.
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As someone that enjoys chasing sheep I like to put as many barriers between me and other hunters. One could use those excuses to give up or to their advantage. River crossings, glaciers, distance, brush. Etc. Put as many between you to have in my opinion a classic sheep hunt, wild places and no people. Last fall we crossed a creek (river in L48) that the name comes up only one time on the search engines. Very remote country, and everyone we talked to said the creek is close to impossible to cross. 3 miles past it and we were in true terra incongnita.

I’m not sure if a guy is going to avoid people on a CO sheep hunt. But that’s just a guess and from the few people I know that have had tags.
 
The Colorado governors tag holder can because the trespass fee this year was 300,000 to get to those rams I posted earlier. That big of a price tag eliminates pretty much any and all competition. Like I said earlier even without the trespass fee it isn't much of a hunt where those rams reside
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
The Colorado governors tag holder can because the trespass fee this year was 300,000 to get to those rams I posted earlier. That big of a price tag eliminates pretty much any and all competition. Like I said earlier even without the trespass fee it isn't much of a hunt where those rams reside
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Red tape and imaginary lines. Kinda like WY just different numbers. I bet the ranch owner probably has people that he doesn’t think are “Richard Craniums” that can hunt it for free by knowing the right people.
 
Gotta love the broscience accounting. As my CPA friends like to tell me, "Pigs slide under the fence. Hogs get slaughtered."
 
SS! said:
As someone that enjoys chasing sheep I like to put as many barriers between me and other hunters. One could use those excuses to give up or to their advantage. River crossings, glaciers, distance, brush. Etc. Put as many between you to have in my opinion a classic sheep hunt, wild places and no people. Last fall we crossed a creek (river in L48) that the name comes up only one time on the search engines. Very remote country, and everyone we talked to said the creek is close to impossible to cross. 3 miles past it and we were in true terra incongnita.

I’m not sure if a guy is going to avoid people on a CO sheep hunt. But that’s just a guess and from the few people I know that have had tags.
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That all sounds great on paper, but how do you do that in WY on a DIY hunt? There is no "give up" when you can't even get started. As mentioned, for an auction guy, probably not even an issue. For a raffle guy, (Which to be fair I don't even know if one exists for WY Sheep) totally different for someone who likes hunting on their own.

Those WSF sheep raffles pull some huge dollars in. It was my understanding that more money from those raffles go to the ground vs what comes from license sales on the same species.

I've hunted sheep in CO, and I felt pretty flipping alone up there.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
That all sounds great on paper, but how do you do that in WY on a DIY hunt? There is no "give up" when you can't even get started. As mentioned, for an auction guy, probably not even an issue. For a raffle guy, (Which to be fair I don't even know if one exists for WY Sheep) totally different for someone who likes hunting on their own.

Those WSF sheep raffles pull some huge dollars in. It was my understanding that more money from those raffles go to the ground vs what comes from license sales on the same species.

I've hunted sheep in CO, and I felt pretty flipping alone up there.
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Tough for sure with the 90/10 but if you’re sitting on a pile of points you can make it happen.

That’s good to hear about CO, I bet one could leave the crowds behind them with a combination of going during the week, putting on miles and getting off trail…
 
Here’s a view of the hills where I shot my CO ram. No roads and no flatlanders in that pic. Only people I saw in over 20 days afield were climbing the 14’ers.

While I could learn to love JJ’s $, I wouldn’t trade my hunt for his. I do love the ram he bought though…..

P7050019.jpeg
 
Bluehair said:
Here’s a view of the hills where I shot my CO ram. No roads and no flatlanders in that pic. Only people I saw in over 20 days afield were climbing the 14’ers.

While I could learn to love JJ’s $, I wouldn’t trade my hunt for his. I do love the ram he bought though…..

View attachment 136811
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That’s incredible country. I don’t think there’s many places in the country where guys are hunting anything above 13,000. We were camped over 13k for my CO rocky tag. I’ve killed two mountain goats including one that was in an unlimited sheep area in MT and neither were in as bada55 of country as that CO rocky hunt.
 
BuzzH said:
Were you just not a "passionate" sheep hunter or playing Rip Van Winkle when Montana's gov. tags were setting sales records? All that money for all those years and less sheep tags.

I'm not opposed to a small number of governors tags, but the money they've raised has not increased sheep hunting opportunity in either Montana or Wyoming.

The numbers don't lie, when I moved to Wyoming there were over 400 ram tags issued, about 180 last year. Same with Montana.

Sorry the facts don't reconcile with your desired outcome of more money equals more sheep.

Oh and being restrictive on Wyoming governors tags is not why they don't sell for as much. Like I said, it's because you have to actually hunt. Combined with average sized rams, the saviors of wild sheep aren't interested. What they're interested in is total inches as easy as possible.

Which is really too bad, if they gave a single chit about what they claim to, saving native herds and the experience, the Wyoming tags should be their top choice.
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A lot of what buzz h days runs true even in today's big money deer and elk hunts all that matters is inches and fame and as easy as possible
 
BuzzH said:
Lot more to sheep country than topography in my opinion.
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Huh? I’ve seen a few deserts standing around on hell’s equivalent of Kansas, but otherwise all the sheep country I’ve been in is absolutely striking topography whether the red rock canyons or rugged mountains.

I guess I’m just lucky to have hunted in a post card for all my too few sheep hunts.
 
Bluehair said:
Huh? I’ve seen a few deserts standing around on hell’s equivalent of Kansas, but otherwise all the sheep country I’ve been in is absolutely striking topography whether the red rock canyons or rugged mountains.

I guess I’m just lucky to have hunted in a post card for all my too few sheep hunts.
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Read again, slower this time....
 
I’ve been on several Colorado sheep hunts. Typically the hunt will go 1 of 2 ways. You either have the feeling of being all alone with the sheep or every tag holder in the unit is camped on the same sheep on opening day.
 
BuzzH said:
Who said anything about Texas? Can't make you comprehend.
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You know if you say they need food and water, Homer is going to give you a thanks Manny.

Go ahead, say it :ROFLMAO:

Now please excuse me; I need to get back to organizing my Taylor Swift protest.
 
SS! said:
They are not “shy of 100%” tax deductible either. While you may find a CPA that will write that off if the IRS decides to audit you you’re going to be paying. Buying an auction tag is not a charitable contribution. You are getting something in return. I bet you likely don’t know what a write off is or does. Take some time to look up what qualifies for a charity contribution. You can write off your new SXS too, or your Disneyland vacation. But it will be you on the hook once the IRS visits you.

More money doesn’t make more sheep.

And if it’s truly for conservation why can’t they just donate money without having to get something in return? If one truly cares about something why not help out without asking for something in return? People do it all the time. People donate millions for causes and don’t ask for anything back. But most these these guys don’t care about sheep. They ain’t coughing up money unless they are getting something in return. Some care most don’t.

I’m glad the money raised from the WSF transplanted Missouri breaks bighorns to Taos New Mexico where it’s over 80k to hunt them. Or the recent transplant to private land in Texas where it’s 70k to hunt them. Gotta have spots for the runner up to go get his slam. Look how many public tags are in those two areas. Take a guess. Don’t be shy. I could give a few more examples.

Govt tags do not put more public tags out there.

Carry on. I have two sheep hunts (so far) this fall and neither are because of gov tags or W$F.
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Im
More interested in what two sheep hunts you have planned for this fall ! Haha
 
SS! said:
As someone that enjoys chasing sheep I like to put as many barriers between me and other hunters. One could use those excuses to give up or to their advantage. River crossings, glaciers, distance, brush. Etc. Put as many between you to have in my opinion a classic sheep hunt, wild places and no people. Last fall we crossed a creek (river in L48) that the name comes up only one time on the search engines. Very remote country, and everyone we talked to said the creek is close to impossible to cross. 3 miles past it and we were in true terra incongnita.

I’m not sure if a guy is going to avoid people on a CO sheep hunt. But that’s just a guess and from the few people I know that have had tags.
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My buddies archery sheep hunt from a few years back wasn’t all that different from a low point elk unit… 12 ram tags brings a lot of pressure, plus there are 3 or 4 easy/popular 14’er and a bunch of 13’er so it was a bit of a zoo, saw one really nice ram preseason but didn’t hear of anyone tagging him
 
HntHrdr said:
My buddies archery sheep hunt from a few years back wasn’t all that different from a low point elk unit… 12 ram tags brings a lot of pressure, plus there are 3 or 4 easy/popular 14’er and a bunch of 13’er so it was a bit of a zoo, saw one really nice ram preseason but didn’t hear of anyone tagging him
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There are tags like that for sure. S12 comes to mind, but there are many others where you will have the unit practically to yourself. That really applies when archery hunting, but with an S12 tag, you can guarantee you're going to see other people. I've had a couple tags and never saw another hunter but I tend to look in out of the way places. There is nothing like watching a nice ram for a few days and trying to figure out how you can get to him.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
There are tags like that for sure. S12 comes to mind, but there are many others where you will have the unit practically to yourself. That really applies when archery hunting, but with an S12 tag, you can guarantee you're going to see other people. I've had a couple tags and never saw another hunter but I tend to look in out of the way places. There is nothing like watching a nice ram for a few days and trying to figure out how you can get to him.
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Hit the nail on the head… he still saw rams and drew back so definitely not a bust, but he never released an arrow, hunting rams above treeline with a bow is tough!
 
HntHrdr said:
Hit the nail on the head… he still saw rams and drew back so definitely not a bust, but he never released an arrow, hunting rams above treeline with a bow is tough!
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That's one of those units where every day that goes by, the sheep get harder, and harder to find. Summer scouting they are very visible, but they get pressured hard and either bed in the wide open, or in the trees, or god knows where. Flipping Houdini sheep. The season is long for a reason!

I killed a goat in there and found a group of rams in a hell of a nasty cliffy spot.
 

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