Unit 44 Point Creep - What Happened?

Joe2Kool

Joe2Kool

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Checking through draw reports, 44-2R took 6-7 points to draw in 2018/2019/2020. But in 2021, it jumped to 14. Anyone have any ideas why?

Back in 2020 when I made a list of units to investigate, 44-2R made the short list. Starting to look again, but with 11 points, I'm not anywhere close.

Anyway, just curious what caused it to jump so much.
 
hunt30 said:
Not super hard to figure out. 2021 was the first year that all the 2nd, 3rd and 4th season rifle hunt dates got kicked back a week.
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Makes sense. Season dates get adjusted every 5 years in CO, right? So the dates will change again in 2026, correct?

Thanks.
 
That change. Will be in in 2025 I believe.

But that change isn’t what happened here. There was a major change during that 5 year cycle. They moved the second and third season back a week. It played into their plan to remove top tier bucks from the herd because of CWD.

AND. People wanted to cash in points before top bucks were gone from the herd.
 
Mostly people are looking to cash out and get out of the system. The current late season structure, lots of tags, and no apparent desire to change that from CPW going forward are not going to make anything better with the next 5 year plan. Its just going to get worse so many are just cashing out with the best options available.
 
I don’t think there is a single unit that is even close to worth 10 plus points. A few years ago any one unit could produce good bucks. After the last few years of later seasons it’s much more difficult. Of course there will always be exceptions, and nice bucks will still fall. But I’m 100% sure no unit is as good as it was even 5 years ago.
 
txhunter58 said:
My brother has 20 points with nowhere to use them.
Esp not in northwest units.
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Lots of options....

IMG-20231202-WA0023.jpg


20230901_184213.jpg
 
Yep. No question there are bucks like that in almost every unit. I saw one close to those in a zero point unit this year. And yes, at least one of those bucks you posted that would be worth 20 pts. So I misspoke.

But is there any unit that REQUIRES that many points that have those kinds of bucks available for many of the hunters spending that many points? I think not. I stick to my guns with that statement. Northwest units? Name the unit. Gunnison basin?? High country hunt??

PS. I hunt deer almost every year. My brother hunts Colorado but usually only interested in elk. So has not been a burden for him to accumulate deer points.
 
IMG_1655.jpeg
IMG_1188.jpeg

Two of my best bucks ever in CO took 3 and 8 points. First buck was is eastern CO and his antlers don’t compare but he outweighed any other deer I have taken by prob 75 lbs. and the second because he is an 8x7 29.5” buck taken in the high county.

No laughing at the hat!! Ok well maybe. 😂 Lost my orange hat and had to make do. I call him
My “cat in the hat” buck.
 
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You might make an argument that unit 44 is still
Worth that many points because some really good bucks come out of there most years. Buts it’s not a unit where you can hunt hard and be sure you will see multiple 180+ bucks on your hunt. Especially second season.
 
txhunter58 said:
Yep. No question there are bucks like that in almost every unit. I saw one close to those in a zero point unit this year. And yes, at least one of those bucks you posted that would be worth 20 pts. So I misspoke.

But is there any unit that REQUIRES that many points that have those kinds of bucks available for many of the hunters spending that many points? I think not. I stick to my guns with that statement. Northwest units? Name the unit. Gunnison basin?? High country hunt??

PS. I hunt deer almost every year. My brother hunts Colorado but usually only interested in elk. So has not been a burden for him to accumulate deer points.
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I only need one. I don't want one gift wrapped and sitting on the first hill I glass from inside my rig. I'm starting to get more patient. Probably because I have more time. I love bumping around, checking my spots. Every spot you name is worth it to me if it's the one I'm hunting next. No wasting points on any hunt, in my opinion. No talking about just because it's not as good as it used to be, so it's time to quit. 20 points is an amazing problem to have. I can almost, ALMOST, guarantee you that when I use my accumulated points on a unit and hunt I'm dreaming about, I'll have less success than my honey hole otc area.
 
Deercy said:
I only need one. I don't want one gift wrapped and sitting on the first hill I glass from inside my rig. I'm starting to get more patient. Probably because I have more time. I love bumping around, checking my spots. Every spot you name is worth it to me if it's the one I'm hunting next. No wasting points on any hunt, in my opinion. No talking about just because it's not as good as it used to be, so it's time to quit. 20 points is an amazing problem to have. I can almost, ALMOST, guarantee you that when I use my accumulated points on a unit and hunt I'm dreaming about, I'll have less success than my honey hole otc area.
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I will never quit. Cant argue with anything you say.
 
txhunter58 said:
View attachment 130918View attachment 130919
Two of my best bucks ever in CO took 3 and 8 points. First buck was is eastern CO and his antlers don’t compare but he outweighed any other deer I have taken by prob 75 lbs. and the second because he is an 8x7 29.5” buck taken in the high county.

No laughing at the hat!! Ok well maybe. 😂 Lost my orange hat and had to make do. I call him
My “cat in the hat” buck.
Click to expand...
Hey Tx, nice bucks. Eastern CO buck looks a lot like my 2023 NE buck. Big, heavy, bodies. East CO and SW NE? Hmm. 🤔. Probably not much difference.

Question, when did you kill them?

Oh, like the hat! 🤣🤣
 
I can tell you from someones perspective that spends a considerable amount time in the states “top tier” units every year. 44 is undoubtedly the one sliver of hope that a guy can have the best statistical chance of killing a 180 plus type inch deer. Anyone who’s spent a lick of time in the Gunnison basin the last couple years can tell you how bad it’s become when it comes to mature age class bucks.
 
It’s all relative! How does 44 stack up to what it was prior to the late rut slaughter dates and increase in tags? Yep maybe a 180 buck is possible in 44 today but a few years back guys were passing up multiple 180 bucks! Not even close to what it was!

Take a look at how many b&c entries are posted from the past couple years? This number will continue to dive unless the CPW gets their act together. I guess I may be the only one to stand up and say it is an embarrassment and shame what the CPW has done!

The least they could do is offer a few highly limited units outside the rut to preserve the potential. It certainly would be nice if there were a few scattered units where hunters that have devoted a 1/2 lifetime drawing tags had higher quality bucks than exist today.

If you could go back in time, how many of you that are so excited about current buck quality would rather have a tag in 2015 or 2023 when Colo was known for world class B&C muley bucks on public ground?

Today isn’t even close in 44 or elsewhere!
 
It is all relative. You quitting because it's not worth it? I'm sitting in a stand here in Ohio now. Cold and damp. Been here for 2.5 days. Seen 5 deer inside 20 yards. Maybe 20 total. 1 tiny buck. Good times. It's not a good area, but I've hunted worse. In law fun. Beats sleeping. Nobody is saying it's not what it was, (mule deer) but you act like you are afraid to hunt. Multiple 180s from the truck! Be nice if cpw had a different pens you could cash those points in. 21 points? 3rd pen on the left. Next!
 
Building 10 plus points in Colorado for deer now days is low odds gambling. Realistically speaking it doesn’t matter if it’s the bottom of the barrel unit or the quote on quote best unit in the state nothing is going to measure up to what it once was 15 to 20 years ago during the last of the Hay days when people who are now sitting on those kind of points started building them. Things are not getting any better for the foreseeable future, if you got em you might as well spend them when it comes mule deer in Colorado.
 
The_Coloradoboy said:
Building 10 plus points in Colorado for deer now days is low odds gambling. Realistically speaking it doesn’t matter if it’s the bottom of the barrel unit or the quote on quote best unit in the state nothing is going to measure up to what it once was 15 to 20 years ago during the last of the Hay days when people who are now sitting on those kind of points started building them. Things are not getting any better for the foreseeable future, if you got em you might as well spend them when it comes mule deer in Colorado.
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Agreed! I'm out of the points game and probably won't be getting back in. It's simply not worth it anymore.
 
The_Coloradoboy said:
Building 10 plus points in Colorado for deer now days is low odds gambling. Realistically speaking it doesn’t matter if it’s the bottom of the barrel unit or the quote on quote best unit in the state nothing is going to measure up to what it once was 15 to 20 years ago during the last of the Hay days when people who are now sitting on those kind of points started building them. Things are not getting any better for the foreseeable future, if you got em you might as well spend them when it comes mule deer in Colorado.
Click to expand...
I agree with what you are saying. But I still can’t believe what people are spending for unit wide landowner vouchers. Even if I had large sums of money burning a hole in my pocket I would not spend that much on a tag.
 
LIK2HNT said:
I agree with what you are saying. But I still can’t believe what people are spending for unit wide landowner vouchers. Even if I had large sums of money burning a hole in my pocket I would not spend that much on a tag.
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I’ve seen people spend a lot more money on a lot dumber things…. I’m one of them
 
Deercy said:
It is all relative. You quitting because it's not worth it? I'm sitting in a stand here in Ohio now. Cold and damp. Been here for 2.5 days. Seen 5 deer inside 20 yards. Maybe 20 total. 1 tiny buck. Good times. It's not a good area, but I've hunted worse. In law fun. Beats sleeping. Nobody is saying it's not what it was, (mule deer) but you act like you are afraid to hunt. Multiple 180s from the truck! Be nice if cpw had a different pens you could cash those points in. 21 points? 3rd pen on the left. Next!
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I have seen no one on here say they are quitting. My brother hunted his butt off for elk this year and never got an opportunity and saw only 1 bull. He will be back hunting next year. I had a 3rd season buck tag in the same unit (0 points for deer) and got a mature 3x3. Saw better on private! Won’t be quitting until I can’t lift a rifle and climb the mountains.

And I have a family ranch in Texas and that I hunt at least 8-10 times every year hoping for the ultimate “big-un”, but haven’t punched a tag in over 10 years.

But you talk like I am not allowed to be disappointed after there have been some great bucks come out of Colorado in the past, but after 20 yrs of investing in points for a premium hunt, you don’t really feel like you have a decent shot at a 180 buck. I AM disapponted. Especially because the CPW is responsible for a lot of that. Their goal is to make trophy bucks scarce because they are more likely to transmit CWD.

Gonna have to disagree with you there. No one is asking for a drive by shooting type of hunt. But I will ask you again: name the unit where spending 20 points gets you into a better unit were if you hunt your butt off, you will have a decent shot at a trophy buck?
 
txhunter58 said:
I have seen no one on here say they are quitting. My brother hunted his butt off for elk this year and never got an opportunity and saw only 1 bull. He will be back hunting next year. I had a 3rd season buck tag in the same unit (0 points for deer) and got a mature 3x3. Saw better on private! Won’t be quitting until I can’t lift a rifle and climb the mountains.

And I have a family ranch in Texas and that I hunt at least 8-10 times every year hoping for the ultimate “big-un”, but haven’t punched a tag in over 10 years.

But you talk like I am not allowed to be disappointed after there have been some great bucks come out of Colorado in the past, but after 20 yrs of investing in points for a premium hunt, you don’t really feel like you have a decent shot at a 180 buck. I AM disapponted. Especially because the CPW is responsible for a lot of that. Their goal is to make trophy bucks scarce because they are more likely to transmit CWD.

Gonna have to disagree with you there. No one is asking for a drive by shooting type of hunt. But I will ask you again: name the unit where spending 20 points gets you into a better unit were if you hunt your butt off, you will have a decent shot at a trophy buck?
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For sure. We all have different standards for what we call a trophy. I will say that putting an inches limit on what I am looking for gives me the slightest feeling of anxiety.
 
I don’t think we are that far apart. One of my best “trophy hunts” was the first elk I killed with a muzzloader. It was a cow and I was in my late 20s. I was hooked! If I could have afforded it I might have mounted her. That said, this site is called MonsterMuleys! 😁
 
txhunter58 said:
I don’t think we are that far apart. One of my best “trophy hunts” was the first elk I killed with a muzzloader. It was a cow and I was in my late 20s. I was hooked! If I could have afforded it I might have mounted her. That said, this site is called MonsterMuleys! 😁
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They are all monsters to my boys. They talk big and tough until we see the first little buck.
 
Depends. If you got a longer time horizon why not keep building. Things change, rather have them and not need them vs the opposite. I’d rather gamble on a change for the better vs gambling on turning up a gem in the current landscape.
 
elkmo41 said:
Depends. If you got a longer time horizon why not keep building. Things change, rather have them and not need them vs the opposite. I’d rather gamble on a change for the better vs gambling on turning up a gem in the current landscape.
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Better is unlikely coming. Don’t want to rain on the parade… but those with 20 something points in the game most likely don’t have the years left in them to chase the unicorn of “better” deer hunting in Colorado that’s likely not coming unless there’s some drastic changes made
 
Wish I’d have known twenty years ago what I know now. You’d have a hard time convincing me that hunting a unit/season that you can hunt every couple years will statistically produce a similar quality buck over time. Plus you get to go on far more hunts over that 20-25 year span.
 
Hunt_the_West said:
Wish I’d have known twenty years ago what I know now. You’d have a hard time convincing me that hunting a unit/season that you can hunt every couple years will statistically produce a similar quality buck over time. Plus you get to go on far more hunts over that 20-25 year span.
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Point scam was a good one wasn’t it?
 
Not my fault you couldn’t sniff it out. I’m at zero points across the board. Guess some of us have better noses
 
Some very good opinions here.
But I think a lot of these High point holders 20+ years. Don't necessarily care about hunting more often. They are in it for the unicorn. And in my opinion, unit 44 is the best option for a one and done possibility at a special buck.
 
buckhorn said:
Some very good opinions here.
But I think a lot of these High point holders 20+ years. Don't necessarily care about hunting more often. They are in it for the unicorn. And in my opinion, unit 44 is the best option for a one and done possibility at a special buck.
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It’s about what’s left as far holding a some what fair amount of mature age class deer in the western half of the state. The Gunnison basin has really plummeted across the board with mature age class bucks the last 3 to 4 years especially
 
The_Coloradoboy said:
It’s about what’s left as far holding a some what fair amount of mature age class deer in the western half of the state. The Gunnison basin has really plummeted across the board with mature age class bucks the last 3 to 4 years especially
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I have talked to a couple of 44 tag holders from the past few years who have been very disappointed, one being a former CPW employee. You would think they would know what was going on.
 
I really had.no idea about cpws view until I met with some cpw higher ups. They know exactly what’s going on! It’s about politics and $. It’s nothing to do with smart and practical game management.

Pathetic if you ask me!

How much effort has been put into changes in the new 5 year structure? You hear crickets because there is no plan for change! This comes directly from those cpw at the upper level.

For goodness sake, the new 5 year plan starts in 2025. Have any of you heard any interest in change from the CPW?
 
So what do you all propose we do?

The way I see it, we can:
1. Try to vote a little better
2. Complain on the internet
3. Or quit hunting and fishing in Colorado

On edit: I left out #4, To have a convention and trade show to raise money. For something.

But I tend to overthink these things just like JP does.
 
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Wildlife biologist, hunters, wildlife groups (RMEF), and land managers need a voice. It would also be great if groups similar to the RMEF were actually listened to! The current CPW policy does not provide this.

coloradosun.com

Hunting groups quit CPW’s Colorado Outdoor Partnership, citing lack of focus on wildlife

Three hunter organizations have quit the Colorado Outdoor Partnership, citing concerns that the group was not addressing wildlife challenges
coloradosun.com coloradosun.com
 
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Bluehair said:
But I tend to overthink these things just like JP does.
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let me see if i can remember the proposition

me: hey state i want to hunt a deer!

state: that sounds great. but you know what sounds even greater? what if we told you that you could give us money now for a chance to hunt deer in 20 years?

me: 20 years you say? well, i'm sure with being managed by a government agency- loss of habitat, disease , age class, population, predators, over hunting and development expansion should never be an issue and what i see out there now for hunting will always be so hell yeah sign me up! do i just give you 20 years of money now?

state: no, no, give us money every year and we will give you a "point"

me: point you say? and these points will be redeemable in the future for a tag?

state: Ha! no no no. they may never be worth a thing! and if you get way too old to hunt or die you can't give them to anyone! especially not a grandchild that could then cut in line in front of all the "invested" max point guys! silly goose

me: well this sounds like a great deal! take my money while i spend the best years of my life physically not hunting and waiting for a tag that either never comes or is crap once i do draw it at 75!



yeah blue. it was a tough one to see coming and took lots of "over" thinking
 
JPickett said:
let me see if i can remember the proposition

me: hey state i want to hunt a deer!

state: that sounds great. but you know what sounds even greater? what if we told you that you could give us money now for a chance to hunt deer in 20 years?

me: 20 years you say? well, i'm sure with being managed by a government agency- loss of habitat, disease , age class, population, predators, over hunting and development expansion should never be an issue and what i see out there now for hunting will always be so hell yeah sign me up! do i just give you 20 years of money now?

state: no, no, give us money every year and we will give you a "point"

me: point you say? and these points will be redeemable in the future for a tag?

state: Ha! no no no. they may never be worth a thing! and if you get way too old to hunt or die you can't give them to anyone! especially not a grandchild that could then cut in line in front of all the "invested" max point guys! silly goose

me: well this sounds like a great deal! take my money while i spend the best years of my life physically not hunting and waiting for a tag that either never comes or is crap once i do draw it at 75!



yeah blue. it was a tough one to see coming and took lots of "over" thinking
Click to expand...
Me: As a resident, I’ll go archery hunting every year and earn a point every year until I want to burn them on some unit a magazine writer says is good.

State: don’t worry, we’ll **** you on something called a weighted PP.

Incidentally, these were all policy decisions. A residents only recourse was to provide their public comments or to vote with their wallet. We can ALL see where that got us.
 
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I don't recall this BS going on before Parks merged with the DOW and the slimy politicians got their hands in the cookie jar. Anyone remember the good ole days when the Division of Wildlife actually made the decisions on how to manage Colorado's wildlife?
 
JPickett said:
let me see if i can remember the proposition

me: hey state i want to hunt a deer!

state: that sounds great. but you know what sounds even greater? what if we told you that you could give us money now for a chance to hunt deer in 20 years?

me: 20 years you say? well, i'm sure with being managed by a government agency- loss of habitat, disease , age class, population, predators, over hunting and development expansion should never be an issue and what i see out there now for hunting will always be so hell yeah sign me up! do i just give you 20 years of money now?

state: no, no, give us money every year and we will give you a "point"

me: point you say? and these points will be redeemable in the future for a tag?

state: Ha! no no no. they may never be worth a thing! and if you get way too old to hunt or die you can't give them to anyone! especially not a grandchild that could then cut in line in front of all the "invested" max point guys! silly goose

me: well this sounds like a great deal! take my money while i spend the best years of my life physically not hunting and waiting for a tag that either never comes or is crap once i do draw it at 75!



yeah blue. it was a tough one to see coming and took lots of "over" thinking
Click to expand...
I'll take my guaranteed tags, thanks. I gave no problem with standing in line, patiently waiting my turn. I've applied in new mexico a lot, and haven't scored, but I know a guy who drew 3 years running on the tag that has 2 percent odds. Really good for him, bad for others. I don't care what anybody says, when demand is high and supply is less, you are going to have to adjust your strategy. No system is perfect, no system will cure the fact that some tags just aren't for me. Wyoming nonresident system is cool. But I still haven't figured out how to hunt 16 every year.
 
When I started hunting Colorado unit 44 was the most overrated unit in Colorado! Now it’s the only unit that seems to consistently produce mature bucks. A lot has changed in the last 7 years……. With that said I’ll be after a tag this season!
 
marburg said:
I have talked to a couple of 44 tag holders from the past few years who have been very disappointed, one being a former CPW employee. You would think they would know what was going on.
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You’re gonna talk to disappointed people no matter what unit…
 
JPickett said:
let me see if i can remember the proposition

me: hey state i want to hunt a deer!

state: that sounds great. but you know what sounds even greater? what if we told you that you could give us money now for a chance to hunt deer in 20 years?

me: 20 years you say? well, i'm sure with being managed by a government agency- loss of habitat, disease , age class, population, predators, over hunting and development expansion should never be an issue and what i see out there now for hunting will always be so hell yeah sign me up! do i just give you 20 years of money now?

state: no, no, give us money every year and we will give you a "point"

me: point you say? and these points will be redeemable in the future for a tag?

state: Ha! no no no. they may never be worth a thing! and if you get way too old to hunt or die you can't give them to anyone! especially not a grandchild that could then cut in line in front of all the "invested" max point guys! silly goose

me: well this sounds like a great deal! take my money while i spend the best years of my life physically not hunting and waiting for a tag that either never comes or is crap once i do draw it at 75!



yeah blue. it was a tough one to see coming and took lots of "over" thinking
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Nailed it
 
jims said:
Wildlife biologist, hunters, wildlife groups (RMEF), and land managers need a voice. It would also be great if groups similar to the RMEF were actually listened to! The current CPW policy does not provide this.

coloradosun.com

Hunting groups quit CPW’s Colorado Outdoor Partnership, citing lack of focus on wildlife

Three hunter organizations have quit the Colorado Outdoor Partnership, citing concerns that the group was not addressing wildlife challenges
coloradosun.com coloradosun.com
Click to expand...
I think there are 3 people primarily responsible for this lack of concern for wildlife:
Gov Polis
Gov Polis
And Gov Polis.
 
So here we go! Don’t ask for help or recommendations if your not going to listen anyhow. I read and shake my head like most people that actually hunt Colorado do. Saving points is great but hunting is better. Very few put more miles on and spend as much time hunting as I do. If you have points, go buy a fricken otc elk tag the year before you want to hunt and go explore. That’s what hunters do. The guys on here that help others and give their opinion are spot on! If you think your 15-20 points are going to kill you a 180”+ because you can “out hunt/work” the others you are very likely wrong. Bring a magic wand with you and tape it to your gun.
There will be a few guys that find a special deer every year. There are guys here that will do it every year or two. But the truth is, Colorado deer hunting is shi*y now. Most 3rd season tags bring repeated chances at 1 and 2 year olds with only a few even seeing a 3-4 or 5 year old buck. I’m sure some will post a whopper after reading this and say it’s all good. There are a few there still. I will continue to go as well. My 15 year old son drew a reissued 55 3rd tag last year. He passed deer every day, dinks. I found a 180” buck at the end of the season. About 15 others must have saw him as well. Covered up with hunters the next morning. Not bitching one bit. We had a awesome time! One of our best hunts. Could have had as much fun in a 1 point unit. You guys with 10+ points are screwed for the time being. Sorry but that’s what it is for the public land guy that has collected a boat load of points at this point. I would keep buying and hope for something to change.
Good luck men
 
My last post is my observation of Colorado deer hunting from my experiences. It is not aimed at anyone or even a reply to someone else’s post. Very few tags left in the west that a normal guy can go hunt and a have a decent chance at a 175”-180” buck
 

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