Montana is a fun hunt
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SS!
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Why? Because they filled their tags? Who’s to say some of those are not mature bucks with bad genetics? Good grief.
SS!
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Yes we all know. But tell us what’s wrong with that? You don’t like that Montana let’s you kill every buck during the rut do something about it. Don’t same a group of guys that are out there following the rules.
Then why you’re at it ***** about shoulder seasons, Randy focking new berg, blah blah blah.
RookieWYhntr
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Nice bucks! Congrats!
Montana deer are in trouble everyone should take note of that. We are also required by law to allow a certain number of nonresident tags. If everyone continues to do what those guys just did there isn’t going to be any deer left. I’m glad he had fun but let’s look to the future and let our kids and grandkids have fun as well.
Harvdog
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I agree. But N
I agree, but not all residents are trophy hunters. Only limiting NR tags won’t fix your problem, the amount of buck tags needs cut across the board.
I get it, I’m from Missouri and it’s OTC for everyone with no point system. I’d gladly come to Montana once every 4-5 years if it meant a better age structure.
We hunted 5 days before the first buck was killed. We looked over quite a few too. 3rd time out since 2017 and your concerns are warranted. Get it done, we love Montana
Harvdog
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What did we do Timmy
Harvdog
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Harvdog
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$650 a man plus tags.
That’s 5 guys food, 2 trucks gas , 2 motel stays, 120lb of propane and 4 half gallons of makers mark
Hunting406
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What a joke
Harvdog
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Yes
Harvdog
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We had 1 first time mule deer hunter this year, he shot yearling dink and we flamed him pretty bad for it…but he was a good sport.
This is 2022, had two first time mule deer hunters. Managed a real solid goat, amazing how many 75”+ goats we saw. Hopefully I’ll draw that tag with 6/7 pts next time we go.
This is 2022, had two first time mule deer hunters. Managed a real solid goat, amazing how many 75”+ goats we saw. Hopefully I’ll draw that tag with 6/7 pts next time we go.
BrianID
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Congratulations on a successful hunt with your family and friends. Ignore the haters.
Montana manages most of their deer for opportunity. Hunters that want different management should complain to the biologists that set the season instead of people that shoot deer that regulations allow them to. Colorado has the same problem currently. If you issue a bunch of deer tags for November, you shouldn't be surprised there are few mature bucks to hunt.
Even if Montana had zero nonresident hunters, there wouldn't be any significant improvement in the quality of deer hunting. Residents would still kill almost every buck before it had a chance to mature. I'm actually surprised that any Montana buck that spends even part of its time on public land in November survives to the age of 5.
If Montana really wanted to improve the quality of their deer and elk, they could make archery Sept 1st to 30th. Deer rifle October 1st to 31st and elk October 15th to 31st. Hunters in Montana would still have plenty of opportunity without cutting tags and the quality/age for both bucks and bulls would significantly improve. You would also see more elk on public land because they don't have such long seasons and constant pressure forcing elk to seek private land for refuge.
Montana manages most of their deer for opportunity. Hunters that want different management should complain to the biologists that set the season instead of people that shoot deer that regulations allow them to. Colorado has the same problem currently. If you issue a bunch of deer tags for November, you shouldn't be surprised there are few mature bucks to hunt.
Even if Montana had zero nonresident hunters, there wouldn't be any significant improvement in the quality of deer hunting. Residents would still kill almost every buck before it had a chance to mature. I'm actually surprised that any Montana buck that spends even part of its time on public land in November survives to the age of 5.
If Montana really wanted to improve the quality of their deer and elk, they could make archery Sept 1st to 30th. Deer rifle October 1st to 31st and elk October 15th to 31st. Hunters in Montana would still have plenty of opportunity without cutting tags and the quality/age for both bucks and bulls would significantly improve. You would also see more elk on public land because they don't have such long seasons and constant pressure forcing elk to seek private land for refuge.
Harvdog
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I know a bunch of guys all over Missouri that blame NR hunters too, yet they shoot the first 2.5yo they get a crack at. I understand the frustration, but I also adapt and hunt other states that require more points and have better age structure and trophy potential. Sure I’ll ***** about NR hunters here in MO, but it’s the actual number of hunters that bugs me more than the hunters themselves
fullcurl74
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Well said. NR vs resident tag allocations have nothing to do with Montana's mule deer problems. Hunting the **** out of them in the rut for the last 50 years might just be a factor.
callsalot
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I agree, blame MT management not the hunters. I also hate when people say Montana's mule deer are in trouble. Here's a newsflash, all Western's States Mule deer are in trouble, not just the state you live in. This has been discussed until the cows come home on this site and others. Three prong solution, predator control, antler point restriction and limiting our technology like trail cam's etc. Then everyone gets to hunt every year. Just IMO of course.
antlerradar
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Fifty seven percent of the bucks taken in region seven were by NR. I bet region 6 was not far behind.
Hunting the rut is also clearly a factor too.
Rie bread
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Damn I hadn’t looked at those stats .
Hunting406
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It was 48 or 50 percent in region 6 I believe! Can’t believe it’s not higher with the amount of non res you see in region 6
antlerradar
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Predator control
There is not going to be any meaningful dent in predator numbers unless coyotes are bringing 250 dollars or 1080 is once again legal. I don't see that happening any time soon.
Antler point restrictions.
APR of four point or better have failed to produce large public land mule deer every time they are used. Maybe if we went to 3 point or less it would be a different story, but that would not be very popular.
Technology
This would likely help, but good luck with that. We tried to ban trail cameras, it didn't last long.
Stubaby
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Art, I hear that large swath of private near you that used to be known for candy bars—-the new owners don’t predator hunt and the deer have taken it in the shorts. Is that correct? How else do you explain pivot lines that have no deer that used to hold hundreds/thousands?
callsalot
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We can agree to disagree on the antler point restriction. I've heard the argument from Fish and Game that it doesn't produce big deer but there are several examples to the contrary. Steens Mtn in OR was four point or better when I was young and was the premier place for trophy buck hunting. As soon as the 4 point restriction went away it went to hell and is now average at best. Common sense just tells you by limiting young buck harvest leads to older age class which is the key ingredient for mature bucks. As far as technology and predators. I agree trying to implement this has not happened but that doesn't mean it wouldn't work. But I get it you have to be a realist also.
Nonresident tags need to be limited. Simple as that, 57% of buck harvest by nonresidents in region 7 is a disgusting stat. APR is a dumb idea and will lead to the majority of bucks having poor genetics.
The deer have taking a beating but that does not mean we need to let nonresidents come in and shoot anything with an antler on its head. The wheels of change are slowly starting to turn and I believe we will see some much needed nonresident restrictions in the future. Hopefully some season structure changes as well moving the season out of when mule deer are most vulnerable.
Most people don't. And NR don't care. Until they can't hunt anymore. mtmuley
Good times!
But almost sounds like these Montana residents aren't appreciating how your NR dollars allow them to pay 1/40th of the price you pay for tags.
Make sure to buy 100% of your provisions back home before travelling to MT next time. You don't want to subsidize these unappreciative bastards.
But almost sounds like these Montana residents aren't appreciating how your NR dollars allow them to pay 1/40th of the price you pay for tags.
Make sure to buy 100% of your provisions back home before travelling to MT next time. You don't want to subsidize these unappreciative bastards.
You're one of the clueless ones. Do some digging on Montana mule deer and you might realize why us residents feel like we do. mtmuley
antlerradar
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This is true, do the same drive through the ranch were five years ago you might see a thousand deer and now you will struggle to find fifty. I am not going to blame it all on the predators, as just about every where has seen a big hit in deer numbers. The tough winters and droughts of recent years have taken a toll. However you can not go from the aggressive predator management Dick engaged in to zero with no consequences.
antlerradar
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Here is the issue with APR. The key to growing big bucks in not don't shoot the small ones. The key to big deer is don't shoot the nice ones. Those nice 160 inch four points are likely one or may be two years from becoming a real quality buck. The smaller two and three year old three point have likely four more years of predators and bad weather to survive. Most will likely not make it and many of the ones that do will not have big antlers. APR focus hunting pressure on the buck that are most likely to become big before they have the age to be big. If your idea of a big deer is ones like the OP posted up, APR might work, but if it is something a bit more special they are a disaster.
No disrespect to the OP's bucks, if you are happy with them I am happy for you.
Harvdog
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Get it done Timmy!
It's coming. mtmuley
Harvdog
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I couldn’t care any less about all the laughing emojis and internet complainers. I’ll be back until they do something about it. Montana is awesome and an easy fun hunt for me and a group of buddies. I’m Sitting on 15 points in Colorado and I got a refund on my 14 WY points, I’ll hold out for a bign in areas that hold more mature bucks.. I’ll try for a NM tag again too and really need to start applying for Idaho. Utah? Chasing bulls has been fun but I’m really liking this Mule deer thing.
Make Montana great again boys
Some of us actually care about what is happening to mule deer in Montana. If wanting more and better deer with an older age class of bucks makes me an ungrateful bastard, so be it. But in the meantime, don't ***** about the residents of Montana complaining about our pathetic mule deer hunting. Merry Christmas. mtmuley
Harvdog
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You haven’t heard any bitching from me! Heck I’ve stated multiple times that I hope you guys can get it turned around. Wish you the best and Merry Christmas
I have 20 points for mule deer. I apply for one of the two most coveted tags in Montana. I also elk hunt the area. From what I've seen the last few years I don't think I want to draw the tag. Montana can't even manage the LE areas. Sad. mtmuley
I don’t appreciate our state being flooded by nonresidents in November. I don’t appreciate them shooting anything that moves. Jack up my resident tag prices you won’t hear a complaint from me about it.
Rie bread
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It’s several hours drive so iv never looked into the stats in those regions.
I did how ever start looking up stats closer to home . MFWP has data back to 2004 I chose unit 314 which has a big harvest of 500 odd mule deer in 2004 and since has settled in the 200’s most years since.
Wonder how they get those harvest numbers? Phone survey and a WAG? I don't remember ever being asked what unit I hunted. Sometimes they don't even ask if I hunted deer. They are usually all over the wolf thing though. mtmuley
BrianID
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That is the sad truth in MT. I spent some time looking at deer in a unit I was trying to draw while on a pronghorn hunt in MT in 2022. I saw a couple dozen bucks but never saw a buck over 3 years old. I talked to several MT residents that week. All were really great guys. Several were interested in information about hunting deer in Idaho because the felt the opportunity to hunt mature bucks in MT was so poor. There are more mature bucks in Idaho but hunting them in October is much more difficult.
Cutting nonresident tags in half would make a small difference but it is really that wide open November season that limits the number of mature bucks in MT. Modern rifles combine with quality optics and easy motorized access will kill off almost all of the older bucks unless you significantly reduce tag numbers or stop hunting them in November.
The decline in mule deer numbers is a separate issue than the lack of mature bucks.
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Most of the local resident hunters have either quit or hunt private. Western Montana and nonresidents put a pounding on our bucks. The population decline is a perfect storm but the populations never came back after the winters around 2011-2012. 11k doe tags were issued in region 7 long before the population recovered. That issue has been addressed. On to cutting nonresidents who expect to come hunt here every year or every other.
antlerradar
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There might be a reason it is hard to find data from back in the 90's and 80's.
BrianID
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Cutting nonresident opportunity is a reasonable thing to do. The state doesn’t want to give up the $$. If you cut the number of Nonresidents by 50% in region 6, I don’t think you are going to see significantly more mature bucks. If you eliminate all nonresidents hunters in region 6, then you could see some results.
The number of doe tags MT gives out doesn’t make sense to many of us.
[QUOTE="BrianID, post: 2237774, member:
The number of doe tags MT gives out doesn’t make sense to many of us.
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Thankfully that issue has been addressed. But when NR harvest in two of the biggest regions in the state is at 50% or above, it's time to take a look at tag allocations. mtmuley
The number of doe tags MT gives out doesn’t make sense to many of us.
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Thankfully that issue has been addressed. But when NR harvest in two of the biggest regions in the state is at 50% or above, it's time to take a look at tag allocations. mtmuley
BrianID
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Thankfully that issue has been addressed. But when NR harvest in two of the biggest regions in the state is at 50% or above, it's time to take a look at tag allocations. mtmuley
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MT could look at doing what Idaho did a couple years ago. Nonresident deer tags in Idaho are now unit specific.
lostinOregon
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I have hunted region 7 in MT since 1996. Last several years I hunted whitetails only. This year I didn’t apply because of how bad the mule deer numbers are. I know someone else will buy the tag but something has to be done around Broadus. I understand the residents who know what it should be like. Drought, predators and bad winters have decimated that herd. No doe tags and restrict buck tags for the near future and if that means less NR hunters like myself so be it.
nvpinstripe
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Stubaby
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Montana doesn’t give out a certain amount of tags per region. You can get a NR general tag and hunt in any of the regions. The only thing you can’t do is hunt an LE unit within a given region.
Here’s the thing. People can use their tag and shoot whatever they want but two things remain::
People who say that things should change but until they don’t—-I’m gonna go kill stuff—technically they are right and it might not be a huge contributing factor, but it will NEVER be part of the solution.
Also, people who say “it’s my tag and I can do what I want and I’m not a trophy hunter blah blah——-just realize and be grateful that others aren’t that way because if we all had that mentality and shot the first available buck we saw—-there really wouldn’t be anything left.
I ain’t going back to Montana unless it’s for elk and a whitetail. Unless it’s a kids first buck it’s time to leave those poor 18-30 month old deer alone.
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So what you are really asking us NR hunters to do is to go ahead and buy the tag but just not hunt to save the animals. That is what I’m getting out of a lot of these posts. No real way to interpret them any other way. Hmmmmm. Interesting.
This is simply a legislation issue. If it not working as it should, it has to be legislatively changed. To go after hunters that are both residents and or non-residents that are hunting legally, lawfully, and within the established rules that are currently set, is absolute nonsense. It sets the stage for thousands of individuals to make up the rules they feel should be in place and to then criticize anyone that doesn’t see it the way they do. Total chaos.
Stubaby
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I’m a NR. I lived in Montana from 2006-2017. I’m back home in Utah now. The mentally of “meat buck” and filling a tag just to fill a tag is lost on me——and the vast majority of others who hunt. Even of they don’t say it, most think it.
It’s an easy suggestion. If it’s a mature buck then shoot it. If it’s not then keep hunting. If your time runs out and you end up driving home without a buck, then so be it. This past year was the first year I’ve never killed a big game animal. I helped others with LE tags and it was super fun and fulfilling. Shooting a dink buck wouldn’t have added anything positive to my year.
Nobody wants to see a truck full of 1.5-2.5 year old deer.
Like with most things in life—-just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
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BrianID
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As I said in post #57, limiting nonresidents tags to a specific unit or region could be a solution.
I agree that you have no right to complain about quality if you are killing a buck at the end of the season, just so you don't have tag soup.
I do think hunters that just want opportunity to hunt have every right to shoot whatever animal is legal. Many hunters don't really care about shooting a mature buck, they just want to tag something.
Personally I think we should reward hunters that end up with tag soup and provide them better opportunities for tags than those that tag an animal. It could be an extra bonus point if you don't shoot a deer or having to sit out for a year or two if you kill a deer.
Maybe you should read what has been posted. But, with your attitude I doubt you can comprehend it. mtmuley
Yep. mtmuley
antlerradar
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Actually any proposal should come from FWP. I am not going to hold my breath in anticipation. Some times you have to go around FWP and go straight to the commission.
1989Cohunter
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lol only here a quick hunt recap could be turned into a session of congress.
1989Cohunter
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Congrats on the hunt!
dragonshed
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I think the hard reality in montana is that hunters will have to be okay with less oppurtunity to hunt mule deer. There is no other option other than reducing oppurtunity. It's hard to knock on the guys having a good time and shooting the first framed buck they see, but it is also hard to not be depressed that those bucks are now dead. Once Eastern MT was on the map for mule deer hunting it was all she wrote. It was just to easy and too fun for all sorts of folks to come and blast a "framed buck" Hunting has just really changed over the last 20 years, the amount of money and time people are willing to spend is insane, the middle class has more time and more money on their hands than at any other time in our history.
Harvdog
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I can guarantee you I didn’t shoot the first framed buck I saw. Killed this one on day 5 after passing framed bucks daily, and he was the “biggest” of them all. It’s not hard to see the quality has taken a nose dive, just take look at the outfitter pages that hunt public ground over the last 10 years and you’ll see the decline in the size of the average hero shots. On day 3 we all joked about just shooting does, but Montana just isn’t that place so we pounded some bone and had a blast.
SS!
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Who cares how others hunt? And you’re assuming the age on those bucks. Plenty of 150 class bucks that are mature. Not all bucks get big. If everyone targeted mature bucks only who knows the problems we would have?
Get off your high horse.
Harvdog
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We can blame NR in all of our states, but we can also blame technology like OnX and Inreach/Zoleo! That’s what’s given a large number of your NR the courage to step out of their comfort zone. Since those tools and the YouTube public land hunters came about my/our elk hunting spots have been trashed. I’d gladly go back to the a topo maps and a SPOT days.
SS!
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No doubt mule deer are in trouble in Montana but that doesn’t mean you get on and shame someone for a successful hunt. I don’t think Montana guys are paying attention. They keep supporting guys like Randy newberg who promotes Montana hunting. They haven’t got rid of rut hunts. They get on and belittle someone over their harvest? That’s just a dick move.
I’ll agree Montana wildlife management needs overhauled. It is time. But don’t shame a guy for posting his hunting pics. Today’s mule deer hunting may be chit for you but it’s likely the good old days for many new to hunting.
All just my opinion of course
Rie bread
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Spindly 130-150 is the new 180 ask me how I’d know lolNo doubt mule deer are in trouble in Montana but that doesn’t mean you get on and shame someone for a successful hunt. I don’t think Montana guys are paying attention. They keep supporting guys like Randy newberg who promotes Montana hunting. They haven’t got rid of rut hunts. They get on and belittle someone over their harvest? That’s just a dick move.
I’ll agree Montana wildlife management needs overhauled. It is time. But don’t shame a guy for posting his hunting pics. Today’s mule deer hunting may be chit for you but it’s likely the good old days for many new to hunting.
All just my opinion of course
Hunting406
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Randy newberg is a giant dousche bag and most people don’t like him! The ones that are likely transplants as well…No doubt mule deer are in trouble in Montana but that doesn’t mean you get on and shame someone for a successful hunt. I don’t think Montana guys are paying attention. They keep supporting guys like Randy newberg who promotes Montana hunting. They haven’t got rid of rut hunts. They get on and belittle someone over their harvest? That’s just a dick move.
I’ll agree Montana wildlife management needs overhauled. It is time. But don’t shame a guy for posting his hunting pics. Today’s mule deer hunting may be chit for you but it’s likely the good old days for many new to hunting.
All just my opinion of course
I didn't shame anyone. Have a nice day. mtmuleyNo doubt mule deer are in trouble in Montana but that doesn’t mean you get on and shame someone for a successful hunt. I don’t think Montana guys are paying attention. They keep supporting guys like Randy newberg who promotes Montana hunting. They haven’t got rid of rut hunts. They get on and belittle someone over their harvest? That’s just a dick move.
I’ll agree Montana wildlife management needs overhauled. It is time. But don’t shame a guy for posting his hunting pics. Today’s mule deer hunting may be chit for you but it’s likely the good old days for many new to hunting.
All just my opinion of course
Rie bread
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Is it like taxes and you only need the last 20’years of statements?
Region three had 10k mule deer killed in 2004 then dropped to 5k for a few year before settling in to 6-7 a year killed.
I’m sure the numbers were better
Stubaby
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Bro,
I never said anything about score. I’ve killed a handful of bucks in Montana that don’t score 160—- but I know that they are mature.
We all know what an immature buck looks like. You of all people shouldn’t be telling anyone to get off a “high horse” and not have an opinion.
If $7500 was spent on a Montana trip and they are happy, then so be it. Value must be different to all people. The state of Montana’s general mule deer hunt has gotten to where it’s not worth the money. That’s my opinion. Just don’t complain about the quality declining when you are still out there slinging lead until the bitter end.
Harvdog
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$1500 a man…I’d say we did pretty solid considering what a 5 day guided hunt on public land costs and what the success looks like compared to ours. You boys woulda got a real good laugh had we paid an outfitter
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Hunting406
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Never hunted out of state… never had a reason to but with the way the over crowded **** show is in Montana and the way our mule deer population is on a terrible downhill spiral I may just have to start looking other places! It’s a bummer Montana keeps on its same path my kids aren’t going to have much to hunt anymore! I’ve killed my fair share of big stuff I for one hope they will get to experience something a few times in their lives like I did just afraid Montana isn’t where that is anymore… the crappy thing is my 9 year old and gets to hunt next year and he has watched and hunted with me while shooting big deer and it’s all I target is a mature big mule deer… he won’t even think about shooting a buck like you guys shot and that’s partially my fault for teaching him to hunt and pursue big mature animals! My 4 year old is going to be the same exact way! Hopefully Montana changes things in the near future for the betterment of the deer as a whole! Have a merry Christmas and good luck In Your future endeavors
I don't. Never have. mtmuley
SS!
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You can tell those are not mature deer just looking at a pic of them holding skulls?
You want to get MT game management changed do something or at the very least start a new thread to *****. Don’t knock someone’s trophies/trip.If everyone that bitched online actually got involved I’m not sure how any game agency could ignore it. Well maybe Montana’s….
SS!
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Different strokes for different folks. Lot more people just want opportunity. What’s ruined to you could be the best hunt ever to someone else.
I would be hard pressed to spend 1500 on that size of buck, when you can kill bigger in KS, NE, OK, or WY. Most of those bucks are 1.5 to 2.5 years old. It’s not Harv fault and he is happy with what he got. And to him it’s a big buck. Yeah Montana management is in the shitter, and a 120 inch buck is the new 170”
I’m all for opportunity but once populations crash and we are effecting the herd health there needs to be a hard stop. Opportunity is going to dry up real quick if we continue on the same course. We may have been able to handle 21k plus nonresident tags in the past but we can’t anymore.
Hunting406
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I can tell you the amount of just bucks in region 6 is at an all time low… the amount of people was at an all time high
Hunting406
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I believe you haha I watch it happen year after year and nothing gets done about it!
Rie bread
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Region 6/7 it’s an interesting comparison to the more wolf impacted areas of the state.6/7 seems more effected by winter kill/ hunter kill. Which is certainly a management issue. Though a handful of wolves are killed out there every year.
I’m also starting to think the harvest rates is a poor example of over deer population.
Hunting406
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I guess the no doe hunting on public in region 6/7 is a start in the right direction! More is going to have to change though
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