Thanks for your help on scopes

txhunter58 · Dec 2, 2023

I have to admit, I have not been keeping up with the deer quantity issue like I should. Was focused on getting an elk tag. Now that I have done my elk hunt, I find that after almost 20 yrs of putting in for deer, I don’t really have any good choices.

JakeH · Dec 2, 2023

slamdunk said:
Technology is the ONLY reason those few trophy bucks are being killed and you know it.
And with technology comes illegal practices to find these animals and get them harvested.
Cameras, bait, infrared, drones, planes, copters, 25 paid spotters, etc, etc.....whatever it takes.

Just as I have preached numerous times...."as quality diminishes, technology will escalate".
That is a fact.

You just stated it well about the BC's.
The quality has disappeared, but those two best bucks WILL get found and killed.

The Henry's top end is skimmed every year because of money and technology, Oak Creek is seeing it now as well.
The ONLY reason the Paunsaugunt is still thriving it's it's flat terrain, those bucks just aren't as visible and they move constantly.

I am not against trophy hunting, but we have got to look at the bigger issues of recruitment and replenishment.

Saving Does is key, let's figure that sh!t out asap.

The ONLY reason???? Come on slam you really believe that? Nobody killed a big deer before technology?

And who is it that is putting the most pressure on those top end bucks and pulling the BS illegal practices to find them???

by and large its not your average or even above average guy doing it, at least not on a scale that is going to impact the overall.

Maybe the TC should look into the people that is actually having an impact rather than targeting the masses.

Who is doing the skimming Slam?

But like I have said all along, if we could address the big problem,(shrinking deer herds) all this other BS wouldn't matter. We have started down a very slippery road in my opinion and it's only going to drive us all farther then we want to go.

There is a new "group" that is just forming in the hunting community, and they are much like the "cut tags" group. The "cut tech" group is going to be just as loud and obnoxious I feel. Maybe more so because they actually feel like they got a win. And just like the tag cutters, they will never be satisfied as long as the resource is declining. (Yes slam I know this was never ment to save deer, but most dont see it that way the fact you have had to say that phrase so many times is an indication of that)
Hell we are already seeing it here on MM, they are looking and searching for their next target to go after.

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

The Very Few PISSCUTTER Sized Changes Ain't Even Close To Keeping Up With All The BS That's Happening So Quickly!

I Mentioned Cutting 10 Tags Once & Now I'm Considered an MM TAG-CUTTER!

When In FACT The DWR Has Cut 10's Of Thousands Of Tags & That Seems To Be OK With Niller & Hossy & The Crowd!

The List Of 50+ Is Getting Bigger Quicker Than Any Sensible Changes Are Being Made!

Everybody Wants Their Cake!

And They Want It Every Year!

Carry On!

It's Gonna Get Worse!

JakeH said:
The ONLY reason???? Come on slam you really believe that? Nobody killed a big deer before technology?

And who is it that is putting the most pressure on those top end bucks and pulling the BS illegal practices to find them??? by and large its not your average or even above average guy doing it, at least not on a scale that is going to impact the overall.

Maybe the TC should look into the people that is actually having an impact rather than targeting the masses.

Who is doing the skimming Slam?

But like I have said all along, if we could address the big problem,(shrinking deer herds) all this other BS wouldn't matter. We have started down a very slippery road in my opinion and it's only going to drive us all farther then we want to go.

There is a new "group" that is just forming in the hunting community, and they are much like the "cut tags" group. The "cut tech" group is going to be just as loud and obnoxious I feel. Maybe more so because they actually feel like they got a win. And just like the tag cutters, they will never be satisfied as long as the resource is declining. (Yes slam I know this was never ment to save deer, but most dont see it that way the fact you have had to say that phrase so many times is an indication of that)
Hell we are already seeing it here on MM, they are looking and searching for their next target to go after.

JakeH · Dec 2, 2023

elkassassin said:
The Very Few PISSCUTTER Sized Changes Ain't Even Close To Keeping Up With All The BS That's Happening So Quickly!

I Mentioned Cutting 10 Tags Once & Now I'm Considered an MM TAG-CUTTER!

When In FACT The DWR Has Cut 10's Of Thousands Of Tags & That Seems To Be OK With Niller & Hossy & The Crowd!

The List Of 50+ Is Getting Bigger Quicker Than Any Sensible Changes Are Being Made!

Everybody Wants Their Cake!

And They Want It Every Year!

Carry On!

It's Gonna Get Worse!

Lol, better watch out or your gonna take over Hoss's spot as the MM TECH-CUTTER.

and come on bess you know you've called for more than 10 tags to be cut.

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

Hossy Only Wants Certain TECH Cuts!

Just About Like Everybody-Else!

JakeH said:
Lol, better watch out or your gonna take over Hoss's spot as the MM TECH-CUTTER.

and come on bess you know you've called for more than 10 tags to be cut.

MrShane · Dec 2, 2023

slamdunk said:
In our opening meeting, we were told that the WB asked for a TC to be assembled as a group to strictly look at both current and emerging technologies.

Having said that, there was already like minded individuals knowing that crazy technology is hitting our markets.

Yes, we had and still have full reign of whatever we feel needs to be looked at.
No one specifically "told" us to look at muzzleloader scopes, all three weapons were on our docket to discuss and changes were implemented.

These items aren't necessary aimed at "fixing" deer herds, they are mostly aimed at lowering the human advantages over our game.

There are a lot of emerging tech items about to hit our hunting world, several are already being used in military applications but tend to wind up on sporting goods shelves.

Let me get this straight please:
The WB asked you guys to form the TC, with NO direction of which tech to cut?
The goal was not to ‘save’ Deer, the goal was to “lower the human advantage over our game”?
And you guys had and still have “full reign” over ALL three weapon types to limit tech to “lower the human advantage over our game”?

And removing magnified scopes on muzzleloaders is what came from this process!

I will say I am glad the TC is still there and will continue to look at ways to “lower the human advantage over our game”.

Two quick follow up questions if I may:

1.Does the TC have an official mission statement, and if so, could you post that for us please or tell us where to find it please?
2. Has the TC been directed when to make the next tech reduction recommendation if removing magnifying scopes from muzzleloaders was not enough of an action to satisfy the WB?

Thank you for your time Slam,
Shane

Vanilla · Dec 2, 2023

elkassassin said:
Hossy Only Wants Certain TECH Cuts!

Just About Like Everybody-Else!

Yep, just your Swaro ds. And even your Swaro Z8 on your second gun you carry so you don’t have to reload for your follow up after you missed.

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

I Think PUNK Said He Was The Only Member of The TC That Voted To Take Scopes Back To Where They Were Pre-2016?

Sounded Like The Rest of The Committee Voted To Remove Scopes Completely?

They turned In Their Vote Which Kinda Went Against PUNKS Personal Vote & Then The WB Does What They Wanna Do!

MY GIRL As Hossy Calls Her Made A Motion To Kinda Like What PUNK Recommended & They Voted On It From There!

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

GOOD GAWD Niller!

I Just SPEWED My DEW!

Vanilla said:
Yep, just your Swaro ds. And even your Swaro Z8 on your second gun you carry so you don’t have to reload for your follow up after you missed.

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

Hey Niller!

I've Told You Umpteen F'N Times My Weaponry Is Only Mid-Grade At Best!

But You're Having A Hard Time Comprehending It!

But Thanks For The Laugh!

slamdunk · Dec 2, 2023

elkassassin said:
I Think PUNK Said He Was The Only Member of The TC That Voted To Take Scopes Back To Where They Were Pre-2016?

Sounded Like The Rest of The Committee Voted To Remove Scopes Completely?

They turned In Their Vote Which Kinda Went Against PUNKS Personal Vote & Then The WB Does What They Wanna Do!

MY GIRL As Hossy Calls Her Made A Motion To Kinda Like What PUNK Recommended & They Voted On It From There!

My personal recommendation was either a 4x maximum or at least return us back to the 2015 rules of 1x.
The committee voted majority voted against my proposal and voted for a complete removal.

The Division came back a month later and said they would support either a low power maximum or a 1x if the WB approved it.

We ultimately landed on the 1x ruling and here we are.

slamdunk · Dec 2, 2023

MrShane said:
Let me get this straight please:
The WB asked you guys to form the TC, with NO direction of which tech to cut?
The goal was not to ‘save’ Deer, the goal was to “lower the human advantage over our game”?
And you guys had and still have “full reign” over ALL three weapon types to limit tech to “lower the human advantage over our game”?

And removing magnified scopes on muzzleloaders is what came from this process!

I will say I am glad the TC is still there and will continue to look at ways to “lower the human advantage over our game”.

Two quick follow up questions if I may:

1.Does the TC have an official mission statement, and if so, could you post that for us please or tell us where to find it please?
2. Has the TC been directed when to make the next tech reduction recommendation if removing magnifying scopes from muzzleloaders was not enough of an action to satisfy the WB?

Thank you for your time Slam,
Shane

We are finished until further notice, but will remain in "Active Duty" like all other committees.
There will be two people appointed to visit the annual Shot Show in Las Vegas to get a preview on upcoming emerging technologies trying to make their way into the hunting markets, at which point a discussion will take place.

Vanilla · Dec 2, 2023

elkassassin said:
Hey Niller!

I've Told You Umpteen F'N Times My Weaponry Is Only Mid-Grade At Best!

But You're Having A Hard Time Comprehending It!

But Thanks For The Laugh!

Your 5x25 night force is mid grade? Dang, baller!

slamdunk · Dec 2, 2023

JakeH said:
The ONLY reason???? Come on slam you really believe that? Nobody killed a big deer before technology?

And who is it that is putting the most pressure on those top end bucks and pulling the BS illegal practices to find them??? by and large its not your average or even above average guy doing it, at least not on a scale that is going to impact the overall.

Maybe the TC should look into the people that is actually having an impact rather than targeting the masses.

Who is doing the skimming Slam?

But like I have said all along, if we could address the big problem,(shrinking deer herds) all this other BS wouldn't matter. We have started down a very slippery road in my opinion and it's only going to drive us all farther then we want to go.

There is a new "group" that is just forming in the hunting community, and they are much like the "cut tags" group. The "cut tech" group is going to be just as loud and obnoxious I feel. Maybe more so because they actually feel like they got a win. And just like the tag cutters, they will never be satisfied as long as the resource is declining. (Yes slam I know this was never ment to save deer, but most dont see it that way the fact you have had to say that phrase so many times is an indication of that)
Hell we are already seeing it here on MM, they are looking and searching for their next target to go after.

I agree with you Jake, I do.

It's no secret who is doing the skimming and how they are getting it done but it's the "me and you's" who get punished the most.

It wasn't you or me abusing trail camera's, it was the commercial hunter publicly bragging about having "2000 camera's strung out from one end of the state to the other" that pushed that agenda.

We've got to grow some deer and nothing is making a bigger impact than the moisture on the ground, especially on the winter ranges.
Hopefully we are seeing a positive trend in that so that our Habitat can be healthy and twins and triplets can be born.

JakeH · Dec 2, 2023

slamdunk said:
I agree with you Jake, I do.

It's no secret who is doing the skimming and how they are getting it done but it's the "me and you's" who get punished the most.

It wasn't you or me abusing trail camera's, it was the commercial hunter publicly bragging about having "2000 camera's strung out from one end of the state to the other" that pushed that agenda.

We've got to grow some deer and nothing is making a bigger impact than the moisture on the ground, especially on the winter ranges.
Hopefully we are seeing a positive trend in that so that our Habitat can be healthy and twins and triplets can be born.

This we agree on, I'm not against outfitters, but.... if you want to have any effect on quality of individual hunt units there is really only one group to look at that is having a measurable impact in that regard. It is very rare you see one of the mega bucks get killed and there was not an outfitter involved in some way. And again this is just from a quality standpoint not a herd dynamic stand point. But that is what TX was talking about.

slamdunk · Dec 2, 2023

JakeH said:
This we agree on, I'm not against outfitters, but.... if you want to have any effect on quality of individual hunt units there is really only one group to look at that is having a measurable impact in that regard. It is very rare you see one of the mega bucks get killed and there was not an outfitter involved in some way. And again this is just from a quality standpoint not a herd dynamic stand point. But that is what TX was talking about.

Bingo!

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

Hey Niller!

You & hawky Are Doing Too Much Over-Thinking!

Like I've Offered You Several Times:

I'll Sell My Best SmokePole Scope To You For 1/2 The Price Of The NIGHTFORCE You Think I Have!

Deal?

Vanilla said:
Your 5x25 night force is mid grade? Dang, baller!

MrShane · Dec 2, 2023

slamdunk said:
We are finished until further notice, but will remain in "Active Duty" like all other committees.
There will be two people appointed to visit the annual Shot Show in Las Vegas to get a preview on upcoming emerging technologies trying to make their way into the hunting markets, at which point a discussion will take place.
View attachment 128196

Thank you.
I am bummed to read “Active Duty” and nothing set in stone.
I was hoping there would be measures taken at the next Nov WB meeting.
Our Deer need our help now.

slamdunk · Dec 2, 2023

MrShane said:
Thank you.
I am bummed to read “Active Duty” and nothing set in stone.
I was hoping there would be measures taken at the next Nov WB meeting.
Our Deer need our help now.

There very well could be, just nothing on the immediate plate for the TC.
Perhaps we are just waiting for the smoke to clear from this last battle.
I certainly know I need a break, it has consumed my life every single day since January.

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

What Other Committee's Are You Getting In On PUNK?

?

slamdunk said:
There very well could be, just nothing on the immediate plate for the TC.
Perhaps we are just waiting for the smoke to clear from this last battle.
I certainly know I need a break, it has consumed my life every single day since January.

slamdunk · Dec 2, 2023

elkassassin said:
What Other Committee's Are You Getting In On PUNK??

Is there a Brune committee?

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

I Wish There Was!

With Your PULL You Might Get Me On It!

slamdunk said:
Is there a Brune committee?

slamdunk · Dec 2, 2023

elkassassin said:
I Wish There Was!

With Your PULL You Might Get Me On It!

Done!!

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

Could We Make It Mandatory I Have To Have A HOT BRUNE Guide With Me At All Times While Hunting?

Vanilla · Dec 2, 2023

elkassassin said:
Hey Niller!

You & hawky Are Doing Too Much Over-Thinking!

Like I've Offered You Several Times:

I'll Sell My Best SmokePole Scope To You For 1/2 The Price Of The NIGHTFORCE You Think I Have!

Deal?

You might be okay violating game laws bobcat, but I’ve got no use for your couple thousand dollar “mid level” scope on my muzzy.

I’m debating open sights vs red dot/1x on my new muzzy I’m buying. I think I’ll just do a muzzy tag down south and walk around aimlessly during the archery hunt in a very non-serious manner. Thoughts?

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

JUDAS Niller!

Just Once In Your Life Take My Advice!

Quit F'N Around!

And Go TOP NOTCH!

I Don't Wanna Hear No BS Excuses Like You Don't Have The Money!

Get This Gun & This Sight Set-Up!

Buy Once!

And Cry Once!

Vanilla said:
You might be okay violating game laws bobcat, but I’ve got no use for your couple thousand dollar “mid level” scope on my muzzy.

I’m debating open sights vs red dot/1x on my new muzzy I’m buying. I think I’ll just do a muzzy tag down south and walk around aimlessly during the archery hunt in a very non-serious manner. Thoughts?

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

OK Violating Game Laws?

You Got A List Of Them?

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

Hey Niller!

I Found You A HELL OF A DEAL On A Used One For You!

You'll Get The NIGHTFORCE Scope That You Think I Have & You Can Clamp it Down On One Of Your Other Rifles!

You'll Still Have To Get The TURRET PEEP SIGHT Set-Up!

A WIN,WIN Deal For You!

You'll Be Top End & Set Up For The 2024 PISSCUTTER Hunt!

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/1009804057

slamdunk · Dec 2, 2023

elkassassin said:
Could We Make It Mandatory I Have To Have A HOT BRUNE Guide With Me At All Times While Hunting?

If we can get the WB to pass it, I'll propose it!

Vanilla · Dec 2, 2023

Yo Bobcat, what’s a grand for a peep sight when you drop 4 Gs on your scopes that are now illegal?

How many lions could I shoot with one of those setups?

elkassassin · Dec 2, 2023

REMEMBER:

They Are Behind Every Tree!

Fire Away As Much As you'd Like!

We Won't Tell Ms Niller What You're Spending On Your New Gun For Your Next PISSCUTTER!

Vanilla said:
Yo Bobcat, what’s a grand for a peep sight when you drop 4 Gs on your scopes that are now illegal?

How many lions could I shoot with one of those setups?

hossblur · Dec 2, 2023

elkassassin said:
So Hossy?

Your Son That Didn't Put A Scope On His SmokePole?

Did He Let You Know How Much Smarter He Was Than You & Your Other Son?

Got it for his b day last December. I talked to him about what was going on.

Yes, he didn't buy a scope.

Kid mows lawns, shovels snow, scraps sheetrock. Had $800 to buy a .223 and scope.

He just saw the writing on the wall

MrShane · Dec 2, 2023

slamdunk said:
There very well could be, just nothing on the immediate plate for the TC.
Perhaps we are just waiting for the smoke to clear from this last battle.
I certainly know I need a break, it has consumed my life every single day since January.

Thank you for your help,

hossblur · Dec 3, 2023

JakeH said:
Lol, better watch out or your gonna take over Hoss's spot as the MM TECH-CUTTER.

and come on bess you know you've called for more than 10 tags to be cut.

Hoss only wants to lead the "don't piss on my leg and say it's raining" committee.

As in don't tell me scopes don't do anything.

Don't tell me cams don't do anything.

Don't tell me bait don't do anything.

Don't tell me thermal don't do anything.

The committee will use a single question to ferret out bullshit.

"Why did you spend so much time and/or money on it if it doesn't work?"

elkassassin · Dec 3, 2023

Remember Hossy!

An UN-SCOPED LEVER 30-30 Use To Work!

hossblur said:
Hoss only wants to lead the "don't piss on my leg and say it's raining" committee.

As in don't tell me scopes don't do anything.

Don't tell me cams don't do anything.

Don't tell me bait don't do anything.

Don't tell me thermal don't do anything.

The committee will use a single question to ferret out bullshit.

"Why did you spend so much time and/or money on it if it doesn't work?"

hossblur · Dec 3, 2023

elkassassin said:
Remember Hossy!

An UN-SCOPED LEVER 30-30 Use To Work!

Works better with optics

Elkrunning-Scared · Dec 3, 2023

elkassassin said:
Remember Hossy!

An UN-SCOPED LEVER 30-30 Use To Work!

It still does.

Simpleton · Dec 3, 2023

hossblur said:
Hoss only wants to lead the "don't piss on my leg and say it's raining" committee.

As in don't tell me scopes don't do anything.

Don't tell me cams don't do anything.

Don't tell me bait don't do anything.

Don't tell me thermal don't do anything.

The committee will use a single question to ferret out bullshit.

"Why did you spend so much time and/or money on it if it doesn't work?"

With this logic, Hoss's new committee has a lot of work to do eliminating anything to which they could say, "Don't tell me _______ don't do anything."

Elimination of anything that people spend time and/or money on that they feel makes them a "better", more effective, or just find more enjoyment as a hunter:

4x4 vehicles, side by sides, any (bust especially high quality or expensive) optics, rangefinders, sights, limit the amount of practice you can complete with your chosen weapon, reloading, diet, fitness, modern medicine, modern hunting gear and clothing, a bank balance over some arbitrary limit, more than 5 vacation days, satellite imagery and mapping applications...

Where does it end...? If someone spends THEIR time or THEIR money on something, does it really affect you and your enjoyment while hunting?

It's not that I think any of the examples above will be removed, and obviously most are made in jest. It is the reality that they could be targeted based on the precedent set over the last 2-3 years. All it takes is for the wrong person to take a stance against anything and we are back in this same discussion regarding another something that Hoss can say, "Don't tell me (insert contentious item here) don't do anything."

The slippery slope is real.

hossblur · Dec 3, 2023

Simpleton said:
With this logic, Hoss's new committee has a lot of work to do eliminating anything to which they could say, "Don't tell me _______ don't do anything."

Elimination of anything that people spend time and/or money on that they feel makes them a "better", more effective, or just find more enjoyment as a hunter:

4x4 vehicles, side by sides, any (bust especially high quality or expensive) optics, rangefinders, sights, limit the amount of practice you can complete with your chosen weapon, reloading, diet, fitness, modern medicine, modern hunting gear and clothing, a bank balance over some arbitrary limit, more than 5 vacation days, satellite imagery and mapping applications...

Where does it end...? If someone spends THEIR time or THEIR money on something, does it really affect you and your enjoyment while hunting?

It's not that I think any of the examples above will be removed, and obviously most are made in jest. It is the reality that they could be targeted based on the precedent set over the last 2-3 years. All it takes is for the wrong person to take a stance against anything and we are back in this same discussion regarding another something that Hoss can say, "Don't tell me (insert contentious item here) don't do anything."

The slippery slope is real.

You forget, we used to hunt in November with side hammer muzzies. We lost that because the inlines were too effective.

Things taken in muzzies started long before 2023.

Betterluckythangood · Dec 4, 2023

Simpleton said:
With this logic, Hoss's new committee has a lot of work to do eliminating anything to which they could say, "Don't tell me _______ don't do anything."

Elimination of anything that people spend time and/or money on that they feel makes them a "better", more effective, or just find more enjoyment as a hunter:

4x4 vehicles, side by sides, any (bust especially high quality or expensive) optics, rangefinders, sights, limit the amount of practice you can complete with your chosen weapon, reloading, diet, fitness, modern medicine, modern hunting gear and clothing, a bank balance over some arbitrary limit, more than 5 vacation days, satellite imagery and mapping applications...

Where does it end...? If someone spends THEIR time or THEIR money on something, does it really affect you and your enjoyment while hunting?

It's not that I think any of the examples above will be removed, and obviously most are made in jest. It is the reality that they could be targeted based on the precedent set over the last 2-3 years. All it takes is for the wrong person to take a stance against anything and we are back in this same discussion regarding another something that Hoss can say, "Don't tell me (insert contentious item here) don't do anything."

The slippery slope is real.

Emerging/advancing technology is never ending, therefore the need to reasonably regulate it is never ending

elkassassin · Dec 4, 2023

I Haven't Forgot That!

I'd Like To Go Back To It!

If I Just Woulda Had The SmokePole I Have Now Back Then!

hossblur said:
You forget, we used to hunt in November with side hammer muzzies. We lost that because the inlines were too effective.

Things taken in muzzies started long before 2023.

just_a_hunter · Dec 4, 2023

I know its a small buck, but it was/is a monster to my 9 year old daughter. Even she could see the differences between my muzzy and others in camp. We had a long talk about tradition and technology. I explained to her that I was using 1970's technology but it brought a much older spirit to the hunt. It's okay for our youth to know its okay to do things the hard way sometimes. She told me if she ever muzzy hunts she wants to use the an old hawken. If kids don't muzzy hunt because they can't use scopes, there is nobody to blame but the parents...

Todd

hossblur · Dec 4, 2023

She is freaking adorable. Good on her for dragging the old man around

That "kids will quit line" was pretty sad, but, it did show just how stupid the arguments for scopes had become.

Mallardsx2 · Dec 4, 2023

hossblur said:
That "kids will quit line" was pretty sad, but, it did show just how stupid the arguments for scopes had become.

I agree.

People will use almost anything as an excuse to be able to lob bullets across canyons. lol

I hope the scope nazi's just quit hunting all together.

hossblur · Dec 4, 2023

It will be interesting to see the draw odds on muzzy hunts next year vs this year

elkassassin · Dec 4, 2023

That Gun Looks YUGE!

Nice Job!

elkassassin · Dec 4, 2023

Hey Hossy?

I Just Listed One Of Your Newly Approved Scopes In The MM Classifieds!

Check It Out If You'd Like!

MrShane · Dec 4, 2023

hossblur said:
It will be interesting to see the draw odds on muzzy hunts next year vs this year

With the WB not making the correct changes to ‘protect the spirit of the hunt’ you will not see the odds change much unfortunately.

middlefork · Dec 4, 2023

hossblur said:
It will be interesting to see the draw odds on muzzy hunts next year vs this year

There were roughly 14,000 applicants for roughly 7000 tags for general muzzle loader last year.

Now if you want to do the research how many applications were there on average between say 2010 and 2015 versus 2016 and 2021?

And how much did the ALW applications change in the same time periods?

Now throw in the tag reductions for the same time period and you can see the outlook is not good period.

hossblur · Dec 4, 2023

middlefork said:
There were roughly 14,000 applicants for roughly 7000 tags for general muzzle loader last year.

Now if you want to do the research how many applications were there on average between say 2010 and 2015 versus 2016 and 2021?

And how much did the ALW applications change in the same time periods?

Now throw in the tag reductions for the same time period and you can see the outlook is not good period.

You should realize, GS muzzy deer isn't the only muzzy hunt, nor is deer the only species.

And yeah, I'm betting fewer dudes burn points on muzzy le hunts

middlefork · Dec 4, 2023

hossblur said:
You should realize, GS muzzy deer isn't the only muzzy hunt, nor is deer the only species.

And yeah, I'm betting fewer dudes burn points on muzzy le hunts

Yes I know that. It was a general observation.
The question being how many dudes? I'm betting far less than you hope.

elkassassin · Dec 4, 2023

Hey Hossy?

How Many TOTAL DEDICATED HUNTER Permits Including RESIDENTS & NON-RESIDENTS Is There Issued Each Year?

I Thought They Had A CAP On The Total Number Of Permits?

hossblur · Dec 4, 2023

elkassassin said:
Hey Hossy?

How Many TOTAL DEDICATED HUNTER Permits Including RESIDENTS & NON-RESIDENTS Is There Issued Each Year?

I Thought They Had A CAP On The Total Number Of Permits?

R I think is 7800?

Don't know total off top of my head

elkassassin · Dec 4, 2023

Are These DH Tags Included In The total Number Of Tags Issued each Year?

hossblur said:
R I think is 7800?

Don't know total off top of my head

hossblur · Dec 4, 2023

JakeH · Dec 4, 2023

elkassassin said:
Are These DH Tags Included In The total Number Of Tags Issued each Year?

Yes, I think it's no more than 10% of total tags for a unit.

cannonball · Dec 5, 2023

I was one of the few first black powder hunters when that special primitive hunt was included in Utah. The intent was to make a place for those hunters who would have a handicap with a gun and powder. One that paralleled what those pioneers of old used.

It makes me sick what it has evolved too.

Even several states around us have seen the light.
What is wrong with Utah's Wildlife Board? I have never seen such a bunch. Study, study, more study until hell freezes over. The subject of saving deer on this topic shouldn't even come up. I don't know how many times I have heard about gun makers and those purchasing those types of guns, talk about the 400 or 500 yard shot kills on a deer. If you have that type of gun and scope, you should not have a time advantage and should join the regular rifle hunters.

Geez

ridgetops · Dec 5, 2023

JakeH said:
Yes, I think it's no more than 10% of total tags for a unit.

It's actually 15 percent.

tracker12 · Dec 5, 2023

If you were going to do it right scopes of all kind should have been illegal. All this did was eliminate a few guys from applying for the Muzzy tags. You shouldn’t pat yourself on the back for this.

MrShane · Dec 5, 2023

tracker12 said:
If you were going to do it right scopes of all kind should have been illegal. All this did was eliminate a few guys from applying for the Muzzy tags. You shouldn’t pat yourself on the back for this.

We ( Utah) 100% did not do this right….

Betterluckythangood · Dec 5, 2023

What did other states do or say about the guys with bad eyesight! Are they SOL?

txhunter58 · Dec 6, 2023

tracker12 said:
If you were going to do it right scopes of all kind should have been illegal. All this did was eliminate a few guys from applying for the Muzzy tags. You shouldn’t pat yourself on the back for this.

Have you actually hunted with a one power scope?. There is no magnification. Nada. In fact, with many of the one power scopes, the animal is actually smaller than with the naked eye.

Yes, it does give a slight advantage, mainly to us who have 60 year old plus eyes. I would suspect that it would increase my current maximum range from 100-120 yards to a max of 150 yards. That accomplishes what the committee set out to do. LIMIT technology. This wasn’t the “eliminate all technology” committee. What they did seemed very common sense and in line with their stated goals.

Tikka · Dec 7, 2023

Jezus, this post is still alive…. Get out and hunt once in awhile…

elkassassin · Dec 7, 2023

I Tried That today Tikka!

And 5 Minutes After I Left They Started Stabbin Me In The Back!

Tikka said:
Jezus, this post is still alive…. Get out and hunt once in awhile…

Tikka · Dec 7, 2023

elkassassin said:
I Tried That today Tikka!

And 5 Minutes After I Left They Started Stabbin Me In The Back!

Never mind what they have to say behind your back... Get out and have some fun...

tracker12 · Dec 7, 2023

txhunter58 said:
Have you actually hunted with a one power scope?. There is no magnification. Nada. In fact, with many of the one power scopes, the animal is actually smaller than with the naked eye.

Yes, it does give a slight advantage, mainly to us who have 60 year old plus eyes. I would suspect that it would increase my current maximum range from 100-120 yards to a max of 150 yards. That accomplishes what the committee set out to do. LIMIT technology. This wasn’t the “eliminate all technology” committee. What they did seemed very common sense and in line with their stated goals.

Yes I hunted with a 1 power. Did a UT muzzy elk hunt a few years ago. It’s is an advantage over open sights not sure what there goal was but to make a few guys happy

tracker12 · Dec 10, 2023

At the pace of point creep and loss of tags not sure many will get to hunt in the future anyhow.

Fireguy65 · Dec 12, 2023

I have a 1x Thompson scope posted in classifieds if interested.

ridgetops · Dec 12, 2023

Hey hoss, thank you. I'm mean thanks for nothing because this change will do absolutely nothing to increase buck/ doe ratios or reserve more post season mature bucks. I guess we all can feel a little better about ourselves now that the bucks have a better chance of living another 24 hours.

slamdunk · Dec 12, 2023

ridgetops said:
Hey hoss, thank you. I'm mean thanks for nothing because this change will do absolutely nothing to increase buck/ doe ratios or reserve more post season mature bucks. I guess we all can feel a little better about ourselves now that the bucks have a better chance of living another 24 hours.

It wasn't meant to save bucks...........

But this topic is over.....done.....behind us.

Let's move past this and figure out how to help grow some "Deer" so we have more bucks.

ridgetops · Dec 12, 2023

slamdunk said:
It wasn't meant to save bucks...........

But this topic is over.....done.....behind us.

Let's move past this and figure out how to help grow some "Deer" so we have more bucks.

That's right. Now thing are more " fair". I feel better now.

elkassassin · Dec 13, 2023

Hey ridge?

Was It A NIGHTFORCE?

That's what Niller & hawky Thought I Had On Mine!

ridgetops said:
That's right. Now thing are more " fair". I feel better now.

ridgetops · Dec 13, 2023

elkassassin said:
Hey ridge?

Was It A NIGHTFORCE?

That's what Niller & hawky Thought I Had On Mine!

I have a 35 year old 3x9 Leupold vx-1 on one and 4x12 diamondback on another and I have no plans on taking them off any time soon.

elkassassin · Dec 13, 2023

You gonna CAMO Them Up A Bit?

ridgetops said:
I have a 35 year old 3x9 Leupold vx-1 on one and 4x12 diamondback on another and I have no plans on taking them off any time soon.

ridgetops · Dec 13, 2023

elkassassin said:
You gonna CAMO Them Up A Bit?

I guess I can still use them during the alw hunts.

elkassassin · Dec 13, 2023

Well!

You Can Cash In On The ALW Hunt!

ridgetops said:
I guess I can still use them during the alw hunts.

Thanks for your help on scopes

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