Which is the better goat?

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Danny_Ocean

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Goat 1

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1.JPG
 
Second one was laying next to a 2 year old, and he was alot, I mean alot bigger. His bases look weird with that white gap between growth rings.
 
Idk man....we would have to sit them side by side and make them take a test....I'd do written and oral just to be sure which us the best Billy.
 
Number one seems to have more age. Number 2 is really hard to judge. Did I count right 4 years on number 2. Can clearly see 3 rings plus his yearling year?
 
Number two I was in a hurry, lightening was coming down, pouring, ole boy just snoozing. His horns are weird, but again, next to the goat he was with, he seemed twice the body size.
 
Number one just because of age. Chance he’s smaller but not likely. Probably a bigger head and carries his mass better. I’m getting 7.5 him if I’m seeing it right. Guessing these are Utah billies by the bases so I’d almost guarantee any 7.5 yr old Utah billy will make book easily.
 
****, I've killed a couple goats, and thought number one was 4 5 max, number 2, I can't tell. Maybe 3? My goal is an old old goat followed by body size. I guess horn length is probablly third on the list. I'd like to get a big bodied billy.

Seems I don't have a clue what I'm looking at.
 
Danny_Ocean said:
****, I've killed a couple goats, and thought number one was 4 5 max, number 2, I can't tell. Maybe 3? My goal is an old old goat followed by body size. I guess horn length is probablly third on the list. I'd like to get a big bodied billy.

Seems I don't have a clue what I'm looking at.
Click to expand...
This is what I’m seeing on age. Based on your criteria I’d shoot this one for sure.
IMG_6763.jpeg
 
Yotebuster, the 4th line you drew is likely not a yearly growth ring. Similar to bighorn sheep the first 2 year's horn growth is much longer than the later growth rings. He's probably a 4 1/2 year old billy unless there is another hidden ring down below the hairline.

You can see how each additional year after billies are 4 1/2 years old hardly contribute much to horn length. From my experience with Colo goats, once a billy reaches 5 1/2 years old his body is about as big as he will get.

What's amazing with goats is that Colo billies can potentially grow 9" horns the first couple years of their lives. There also aren't many billies harvested in Colo that stretch a tape over 10".

You may already be aware that there are hardly any B&C listings for Colo goats. They just don't have the genetics for mass of BC and Alaska goats. Take a look at B&C goat pics and compare the mass to the thinner horns of Colo goats (especially the last 2 mass measurements).

A 4 1/2 year old + billy in Colorado is pretty tough to find compared to the glory goat years around 15-20 years ago. There used to be 4 to 6 year old billies harvested every year but not any more! The CPW started issuing way to many either sex tags that prevents billies from aging to maturity. Around 15+ years ago it was possible to see several groups of mature 4 1/2 to 6 1/2 year old billies running in bachelor groups in the summer in several units across Colo. Those days are long gone.

You are absolutely right that there is a gigantic difference between 2 1/2 and 4 1/2+ year old billy body sizes. You'll probably notice that mature billies this time of year have shed all of last year's winter coat. Nannies still have a lot of ugly "swag" hair that likely won't be totally gone until Sept. I'm sure nannies inherited that trait to aid in birth and survival of their kids through the spring months. That's one quick and easy way to tell nannies from billies this time of year.

You will likely notice that in late September and October mature billies are the first to get their long, winter coats in comparison to super short nanny hair at that same time. You may want to wait until close to your season to decide which billy you prefer. The score between the 2 billies you have in photos are likely pretty close but for me, a mature billy with super long, luxurious hair is just as big a part of the trophy.

Trophy hair and a billy not doing a death dive off cliffs after a shot would be a couple considerations. You would be amazed at the damage a billy can do to their horns and and facial hide tumbling off rocks and cliffs (if a nice mount is desired).

Here's a live photo of a Colo billy that made B&C years ago. He had amazing horn mass for a Colo billy.
billy.jpg
 
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Danny_Ocean said:
Here is the one I have to make a giant climb to see what he looks like. From afar, he's big, was all alone.

View attachment 116499
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Need some close ups of this guy! The first two just don’t strike me as that big of horns to make book(50”). I’m with SS look for one with a horse head 9”+ eye to nose some billies only have a 71/2” eye to nose. Most ears are approximately 41/2-51/2” long and the eye is roughly 17/8-2” across so you can use those to help judge the mass and length.
 
I'm no expert at judging goats as I only have one under my belt, but I would guess them to score about the same. If I had a choice I would shoot the first one. I like how his horns curve more than #2.
 
PRCnut said:
Need some close ups of this guy! The first two just don’t strike me as that big of horns to make book(50”). I’m with SS look for one with a horse head 9”+ eye to nose some billies only have a 71/2” eye to nose. Most ears are approximately 41/2-51/2” long and the eye is roughly 17/8-2” across so you can use those to help judge the mass and length.
Click to expand...
A lot of area to cover yet so we’ll see how it goes. I need to see that bigger one a time or two before i make that climb, but I will to get a better look without a doubt.

It’s an archery hunt, 50” would be fantastic but I’m hoping to find a solid P&Y Billy

Summer coats easy to judge sex as well. I
 
Billy #2 looks like the best. Billy #1 looks to be 5 years old. If I had the tag I would be punching it on #2. I killed a Billy in 2019 on the Uinta west unit and he was aged at 10 and hit the 50” mark. His body was just so much bigger than the other two Billy’s he was with. His horns didn’t look the longest out of the three but he had a giant pot belly and just looked old.
 
Killed this Colorado Billy in 2014. When I saw from a distance the three white spots I thought a nannie and two kids and then got out the spotting scope and went WOW that is a giant Billy and two smaller yet fully mature Billie's. In Colorado they have Minis and Maxi goats different bloodlines that haven't found middle ground. I know a guide who has many many goats under his belt and says it is always stressful looking at a lone goat...nothing to measure it against...looks big and mature has all the characteristics and you get up there and its a Mini. This is the story that was in Sporting Classics https://www.schnackfinearts.com/post/the-golden-goat-of-ogre-valley

Best Goat-1.jpg
 
This is my son's actual measured Booner Goat from BC a few years back.
Having never hunted Billies before, I told him he'd killed a baby when we first walked up to it. Obviously they are hard to judge.
My son's is 10 5/8" long. If you compare the horn length to it's face the horns are as long as his face.
From what I can tell neither of those pictured goats have very impressive length and neither will make the book...in my book.
But what do I know? I thought this one was a baby.
_DSC7499f.jpg
 
littlebighorn said:
This is my son's actual measured Booner Goat from BC a few years back.
Having never hunted Billies before, I told him he'd killed a baby when we first walked up to it. Obviously they are hard to judge.
My son's is 10 5/8" long. If you compare the horn length to it's face the horns are as long as his face.
From what I can tell neither of those pictured goats have very impressive length and neither will make the book...in my book.
But what do I know? I thought this one was a baby.
View attachment 116631
Click to expand...
Great looking goat
 
littlebighorn said:
This is my son's actual measured Booner Goat from BC a few years back.
Having never hunted Billies before, I told him he'd killed a baby when we first walked up to it. Obviously they are hard to judge.
My son's is 10 5/8" long. If you compare the horn length to it's face the horns are as long as his face.
From what I can tell neither of those pictured goats have very impressive length and neither will make the book...in my book.
But what do I know? I thought this one was a baby.
View attachment 116631
Click to expand...
Great great goat where was it killed?
 
BIG difference between a 48” and 50” goat. But visually VERY hard to tell the difference. My opinion they are the toughest to judge on the hood. Find one that looks great to you, with good hair, and be happy with your decision.
 
I've hunted them with friends and family several times and for myself once and my judging abilities are still suspect.

I'm with SS, they all start looking the same.

LBH's son's goat was obviously a stud and not a baby!!!! haha

Zeke
 
There are nine 50"+ Colorado goats listed in B&C. I'm sure you know how lofty that goal is. At any rate, you'll get to spend some time in goat country. Good luck.
 
Here is my only goat experience from Colorado back in 2011........

This is the goat I decided to shoot.
Early in the morning he was bedded in the open.
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As the sun got warmer he moved into the shade.
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Before I decided to shoot him I knew he had a broken right horn. I wasn't too concerned about that though as in my eyes the trophy of a mountain goat is the long hair.

After the shot he tumbled and got pretty beat up from the fall but stayed intact.
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This is the closest I ever got to putting a tape on him but it gives you a reference. Score didn't matter to me - it was about the experience and the trophy is in the hair.
goat.jpg


The taxidermist did a good job fixing the broken horn. The face was a little beat up after the tumble down the mountian, but I'm pretty happy and brings back some great memories every time I look at it.
goat 2.jpg



And here is the kicker that will upset a LOT of people. I drew that tag with only 2 points!!!!!!! Yes that is correct, I didn't even have the required min 3 points to be in the drawing! Back then nobody wanted to hunt that unit (Unit G17) because the numbers were low and the goats were small. I saw that the demand was very low and started putting in thinking I might have a chance after 5 or 6 years (I just wanted to experience a goat hunt). Well the third year there were only two NR's that put in for the second season hunt in that unit. I had two points and the other guy had one, so I got the tag.
 
i agree with most #2 has better...but just a bit Horns but #1 is a MASSIVE animal in body and the classic "horsehead " of a mature Billy I think he might get my nod because of that
 
littlebighorn said:
This is my son's actual measured Booner Goat from BC a few years back.
Having never hunted Billies before, I told him he'd killed a baby when we first walked up to it. Obviously they are hard to judge.
My son's is 10 5/8" long. If you compare the horn length to it's face the horns are as long as his face.
From what I can tell neither of those pictured goats have very impressive length and neither will make the book...in my book.
But what do I know? I thought this one was a baby.
View attachment 116631
Click to expand...
That’s one of the best field photos I’ve seen. Love it!
 
Age for me gives the first one the edge. Will likely have a bigger head which may hide horn size a bit more when comparing them side by side. Rarely will a young goat like the second one be as big and age sure helps them grow big heads I've found.

I shot this guy years ago and he's my oldest goat, though not my biggest. Sure a lot more proud of his age though than one I've killed larger that was 4. I think this one was 7 or 8.

10669030_723356897758909_5899969424374027920_o.jpg
 

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