the perfect bullet

I've been hunting for pretty much the last two weeks so I'm late to this thread, but I will give my two cents.
For years I shot Nosler partitions because at the time they were the closest thing to perfect that I knew of. Then I switched to Barnes X because they seemed to have the recipe of the magic bullet. And while I had no bad experiences with them I had heard other hunters complain about them penciling.
In my quest for the perfect bullet I had a brief affair with Bergers because of their incredible BC but blowing up on the shoulder of an elk was my constant nightmare.
The closest thing to perfect I have found lately are Hammers like others have mentioned. They shoot lights out in all my rifles. They are instantly available and seem to perform great. The tips are designed to turn into shrapnel with the core penetrating, which is what has happened on all animals I have shot with them. I have not experienced any excessive meat damage from fragmentation, but it solves the penciling problems of the Barnes. Hammers are still not perfect because they don't have the BC that would make them perfect to me.
I know the owners are continuing to work on making them even better, but it is still a work in progress.
Marley. You have a trophy room that most of us can only dream about and I'm guessing if those animals could talk they would say the bullet that hit them was perfect enough.
By the way, I've never shot anything with a Core-Lokt!
 
littlebighorn said:
I've been hunting for pretty much the last two weeks so I'm late to this thread, but I will give my two cents.
For years I shot Nosler partitions because at the time they were the closest thing to perfect that I knew of. Then I switched to Barnes X because they seemed to have the recipe of the magic bullet. And while I had no bad experiences with them I had heard other hunters complain about them penciling.
In my quest for the perfect bullet I had a brief affair with Bergers because of their incredible BC but blowing up on the shoulder of an elk was my constant nightmare.
The closest thing to perfect I have found lately are Hammers like others have mentioned. They shoot lights out in all my rifles. They are instantly available and seem to perform great. The tips are designed to turn into shrapnel with the core penetrating, which is what has happened on all animals I have shot with them. I have not experienced any excessive meat damage from fragmentation, but it solves the penciling problems of the Barnes. Hammers are still not perfect because they don't have the BC that would make them perfect to me.
I know the owners are continuing to work on making them even better, but it is still a work in progress.
Marley. You have a trophy room that most of us can only dream about and I'm guessing if those animals could talk they would say the bullet that hit them was perfect enough.
By the way, I've never shot anything with a Core-Lokt!
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Hey LittleBig!

No Sense In Screwing Anything Up At This Point!:D
 
littlebighorn said:
I've been hunting for pretty much the last two weeks so I'm late to this thread, but I will give my two cents.
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Gteat response with 1st hand experience.
Well ya cost me a few BP points at the Dr office teplying late. But we're doing great!! JK. Hope you had a gr3at tike hunting. This the season... Guess I have yet to see the Barnes not created a terminal exit wound. The exit hole is normally 1.5x the size of the bullet diameter which leaves a huge exit hole with manageable able meat losses. Think I'll hang with Barnes for know.
 
tailchasers said:
Gteat response with 1st hand experience.
Well ya cost me a few BP points at the Dr office teplying late. But we're doing great!! JK. Hope you had a gr3at tike hunting. This the season... Guess I have yet to see the Barnes not created a terminal exit wound. The exit hole is normally 1.5x the size of the bullet diameter which leaves a huge exit hole with manageable able meat losses. Think I'll hang with Barnes for know.
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are you drinking??
 
I’m surprised it’s only been mentioned once up to this point but the closest bullet to Marlys demands is the terminal ascent. High bc , a heat resistant tip, lead behind the tip leading to a solid rear shank. Supposedly federal makes them in a component bullet but they are hard to find. It’s what I had my mind set on for my 26 nosler but just couldn’t find them.
Joseph von Benedikt highly recommends them after testing them extensively in Africa at both close and long range.
 
When I first started into hand loading and the pursuit of obtaining the ultimate level of accuracy in my rifles. One of the first people I had the chance to talk to was Walt Berger. First rifle I started with was 300rum built off a sako 75 action running 210 Berger vlds. Walt himself and others from Berger always took my questions and returned my emails about load development. As I grew as a handloader/shooter I got my hands on every single high BC/ long range bullet I could.. Hornady eldx/eldm, sierra match king, nosler LRAB and RDF, Barnes LRX, Lapua Scenars, and so on. I know a lot of people rant and rave about the eldx. I’ve ran it quite a bit and killed live animals with it. Did it work, sure. I always recommend it to factory ammo shooters. However over the years I’ve never found something as consistently accurate and consistently manufactured to the highest tolerances like a Berger bullet. Some hate them and I get it, but I’ve killed more animals with a Berger bullet than any other the last 12 years ranging form 22 to 33 caliber from ranges as close as 30 yards to further than I care to start an argument about…
Sure there’s been a bullet failure or two. Shoot any bullet long enough at enough animals and you’re going to see one fail sooner or later.
 
Hnttillmt said:
I’m surprised it’s only been mentioned once up to this point but the closest bullet to Marlys demands is the terminal ascent. High bc , a heat resistant tip, lead behind the tip leading to a solid rear shank. Supposedly federal makes them in a component bullet but they are hard to find. It’s what I had my mind set on for my 26 nosler but just couldn’t find them.
Joseph von Benedikt highly recommends them after testing them extensively in Africa at both close and long range.
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I would be curious if anyone else has used the terminal ascent. On paper, it does sound close to Marley’s described bullet.

I have tried them once in my 270 (136 gr) in federal premium ammo (not hand loads) and didn’t get the accuracy I wanted. Anyone else have experience with accuracy of the bullet in their gun. Hand loads or OTC ammo?
 
Also had another thought. The bullet we are describing may not be one bullet. It might be one for you and another for me.

Just like a rifle that is my go-to gun. I have one that is slightly more accurate off the bench, but I just generally reach for that one gun I know is “perfect” for me in the field. Has never failed to perform that I can remember. I have occasionally failed it though.

But someone else could pick
up that same gun and not feel confident in it. And that could mean failure in the field

Familiarity and confidence in your equipment, whatever that happens to be, means a lot in the search for perfect
 
The_Coloradoboy said:
When I first started into hand loading and the pursuit of obtaining the ultimate level of accuracy in my rifles. One of the first people I had the chance to talk to was Walt Berger. First rifle I started with was 300rum built off a sako 75 action running 210 Berger vlds. Walt himself and others from Berger always took my questions and returned my emails about load development. As I grew as a handloader/shooter I got my hands on every single high BC/ long range bullet I could.. Hornady eldx/eldm, sierra match king, nosler LRAB and RDF, Barnes LRX, Lapua Scenars, and so on. I know a lot of people rant and rave about the eldx. I’ve ran it quite a bit and killed live animals with it. Did it work, sure. I always recommend it to factory ammo shooters. However over the years I’ve never found something as consistently accurate and consistently manufactured to the highest tolerances like a Berger bullet. Some hate them and I get it, but I’ve killed more animals with a Berger bullet than any other the last 12 years ranging form 22 to 33 caliber from ranges as close as 30 yards to further than I care to start an argument about…
Sure there’s been a bullet failure or two. Shoot any bullet long enough at enough animals and you’re going to see one fail sooner or later.
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I’ve guided elk hunters in New Mexico for quite a few years. Seen a lot of different calibers and bullets used. I will say the 215 Berger is impressive, extremely accurate and deadly at some very long ranges. It’s listed as a target bullet but have a group of hunters that come every year and use that bullet and kill bulls with it.
 
Well good news cor lokt hunters , Remington updated them to the tipped with a additional 100+ BC in 30cal 180gr so the wheel just got polished up , they are probably equal to a hornday ELD-x in performance?
I would love to know about head to head personal experience between Remington and hornday ?

and at what FPS does a tipped cup and core and a bonded become unable to expand Terminal ?
 
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Colo22Hunt said:
I’ve guided elk hunters in New Mexico for quite a few years. Seen a lot of different calibers and bullets used. I will say the 215 Berger is impressive, extremely accurate and deadly at some very long ranges. It’s listed as a target bullet but have a group of hunters that come every year and use that bullet and kill bulls with it.
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I’ve filled a lot of freezers with a 215 out of a 300win. Pretty much all I shoot are Berger hybrids and EOLs.
 
Patriot Valley Arms "Cayuga" Anyone with experience shooting this bullet. Looks good. I have shot Barnes the last 15 years (Worked great, but looking for higher BC), switched to Bergers last year ((3 shots and 3 dead animals). I shot a bunch of Hammers this past month, but really want something with a higher BC. Thinking of trying the PVA, but may stick with Berger.
 
I really wanted to love the Bergers and my experience with them is limited to my 28 Nosler. The 195 EOLs shot great out of my rifle. My son shot a buck at 560 yards and hit him in the shoulder. The bullet splattered. Knocked the buck to the ground instantly but only penetrated 3 inches or so. We had to put a finishing shot in him. The next year I shot an antelope with the same bullet at 850 yards perfectly behind the shoulder. It pencil holed him. He didn’t even act hit. In fact we thought I missed. I shot again and hit him high shoulder. Again it penciled through. He went behind a rise and died. They were just too inconsistent for me for a two animal sample. There will be those that call bull crap I guess but I have the antelope on video.
 
I won't complain about the way my 175 grain berger elite hunters perform. Here are two bullets I recovered last year. One from 160 yards on a deer and the other on a cow elk at 310 yards. We shot an antelope at 856 and it was a complete pass through. We also killed an elk at 540 and a deer at 600 with them. They have proven to be extremely accurate one shot killers. I know people always say "where did all the rest of the lead end up?" but I honestly don't care. Until hunters start dying from lead poisoning from game animals I will believe that is a stupid argument. I want a bullet to hit where I aim and to kill effectively and these have proven to be great at both of those things.

berger 1.jpg


berger 2.jpg
 
When you hear my friends say “way over him” that was actually a perfect hit just behind the shoulder. The bullet zipped through him and skipped up the hill. The 2nd shot was high shoulder and still penciled through him and hit the dirt behind him. Both entrances and exits looked identical in size.


 
marley said:
When you hear my friends say “way over him” that was actually a perfect hit just behind the shoulder. The bullet zipped through him and skipped up the hill. The 2nd shot was high shoulder and still penciled through him and hit the dirt behind him. Both entrances and exits looked identical in size.


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I wonder why the 195's did that for you? I've never tried them because my magazine won't allow me to and my rifle isn't throated for super long bullets either. The 175's have been great for me, but you're not the first person i've heard have issues with the 195's. Berger's will usually tumble at extreme ranges but I wouldn't consider 850 extreme. I wouldn't use them either if i had that experience so I can't blame you.
 
money said:
I won't complain about the way my 175 grain berger elite hunters perform. Here are two bullets I recovered last year. One from 160 yards on a deer and the other on a cow elk at 310 yards. We shot an antelope at 856 and it was a complete pass through. We also killed an elk at 540 and a deer at 600 with them. They have proven to be extremely accurate one shot killers. I know people always say "where did all the rest of the lead end up?" but I honestly don't care. Until hunters start dying from lead poisoning from game animals I will believe that is a stupid argument. I want a bullet to hit where I aim and to kill effectively and these have proven to be great at both of those things.

View attachment 94333

View attachment 94334
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I have had excellent results with the .284 EOL in 175 on deer and elk and pretty good success with the .264 156 EOL on deer, I have had less than stellar results with the 156 on elk and am currently looking for a new bullet in the PRC. BC should be less of a concern for an elk bullet as most shots are lot going to be long range. I am looking pretty hard at the Hammers but just not sure yet.
 
A perfect bullet would have to shoot tight groups out of all accurate barrels. Some of my rifles seem to prefer one bullet over another, as far as accuracy goes so maybe accuracy is something that can't be perfected in one bullet for every rifle.
Then it would also have to perform like we want!

Unfortunately most of us have a pretty small sample size of killing experience with any one bullet to call it perfect for someone else and every situation.
I've also actually never experienced a bullet failing like you describe marley, but I know plenty of hunters, yourself included, who have. Having one blow up has always been a concern so I have errored on the side of penetration vs. expansion.

High BC is valuable, and I practice long range, but I don't feel real comfortable about shooting beyond 600 yds, so that part is less important for me.

Interesting discussion but for sure, at this point, no one makes a perfect bullet!
 
marley said:
When you hear my friends say “way over him” that was actually a perfect hit just behind the shoulder. The bullet zipped through him and skipped up the hill. The 2nd shot was high shoulder and still penciled through him and hit the dirt behind him. Both entrances and exits looked identical in size.


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Both those hits LOOK like they hit him too high.
The first shot looks like it kind of bounced off the buck's back, it was so high.
But, I wasn't there and it wasn't my antelope so I'm just saying what I see.

Zeke
 
Zeke said:
Both those hits LOOK like they hit him too high.
The first shot looks like it kind of bounced off the buck's back, it was so high.
But, I wasn't there and it wasn't my antelope so I'm just saying what I see.

Zeke
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The first shot hit right in the corner of the white belly square. The 2nd shot slid just under his spine. Either shot with a bullet that expanded like it should would’ve dropped him in his tracks.
 
Zeke said:
Both those hits LOOK like they hit him too high.
The first shot looks like it kind of bounced off the buck's back, it was so high.
But, I wasn't there and it wasn't my antelope so I'm just saying what I see.

Zeke
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The second one does look high to me as well but he said it was at 850 which would help I imagine because the bullet is coming in at a pretty steep angle. Still doesn't explain lack of bullet performance but I do think at that distance the placement would still be okay on that second shot.
 
The first shot hit 2" below the hair line and the second shot hit 2" above the white patch.. If not, it looks like I need to head in and get my eyes examined. LOL

Like I said, I wasn't there but that video will need to be examined forensically to change my mind, or show me the dead pronghorn denoting the bullet holes.

Maybe this is why I wouldn't make a good eye witness. LOL

Best,
Zeke
 
I totally agree that the second shot (just above the white patch) should have expanded.
I will say that I've pounded a ton of pronghorn and some of them still run off like they were not touched. Their nervous system must be different than other critters.

Zeke
 
Yessir, that's what I saw.... except for the order of shots., but again, only an opinion from someone who was NOT THERE.
Thanks for sharing!

Zeke
 
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marley said:
When you hear my friends say “way over him” that was actually a perfect hit just behind the shoulder. The bullet zipped through him and skipped up the hill. The 2nd shot was high shoulder and still penciled through him and hit the dirt behind him. Both entrances and exits looked identical in size.


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Weird… shot a bull last year with my 28 with a 195eol at 450 and he was dead before his dick hit the dirt
 
marley said:
When you hear my friends say “way over him” that was actually a perfect hit just behind the shoulder. The bullet zipped through him and skipped up the hill. The 2nd shot was high shoulder and still penciled through him and hit the dirt behind him. Both entrances and exits looked identical
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Funny you mentioned this. Hunting with me comes with a caveat. I am an awful post shot spotter. Buddy killed a decent antelope with 2 shots 1 inch apart. I called it a miss both times watching the dust kicked up behind. This has happened more than I care to admit. So I honestly let people know prior to shooting. It's made for some fun campfire ribbing...
 
The_Coloradoboy said:
Weird… shot a bull last year with my 28 with a 195eol at 450 and he was dead before his dick hit the dirt
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I just remembered that I killed a bull in AZ from a LONG ways away with the same set up. But that is the exact reason I’m not too fond of them. It’s the inconsistency that makes me shy away from them.
 
A lot of folks don’t know what the Berger was designed for. I have had great luck with Bergers so have my kids and wife but we always shoot for the vitals, they probably aren’t the best bullet if you shoot through bone.
81FBDD49-6F75-4099-AE3A-5C6AD2172928.png
 
marley said:
I just remembered that I killed a bull in AZ from a LONG ways away with the same set up. But that is the exact reason I’m not too fond of them. It’s the inconsistency that makes me shy away from them.
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I’ve actually found that the Bergers perform the best on elk that have thicker hides and heavier bone density. A antelope is like a piece of toilet paper to that 195 coming out of that 28. I’ve had the best results on deer and antelope shooting the hybrid/target bullets. Also you have to be cognizant of making sure the tips of the bullets aren’t being damaged when feeding from the magazine to the chamber… this can cause malfunctions. The hybrids are less set depth sensitive so you can run them .2 too .4 off the lands and get smoother feeding from the magazine. Just my .02
 
I shoot berger I shoot better
all basically one shot kills dead right there with a 180 grn vld 7mm
200 to 800 yards
to much over thinking, results are dead animals and tight groups
 
Used factory terminal ascent bullets this year. Passed through so no bullet to see. Seemed to work well and my gun likes them so I bought 8 more boxes.
 
Firedad said:
Used factory terminal ascent bullets this year. Passed through so no bullet to see. Seemed to work well and my gun likes them so I bought 8 more boxes.
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Expand on “worked well”. How big was the exit hole? Amount of tissue damage? Hit any bones? Aprox what was your group size at 100 yds?
 
txhunter58 said:
Expand on “worked well”. How big was the exit hole? Amount of tissue damage? Hit any bones? Aprox what was your group size at 100 yds?
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Died real fast, went through ribs only, not sure of exit cause I didn’t pay much attention. Shot him late, took some time to get down to him and was dark real quick. My son’s buck three days earlier was the first and mine the second time I’ve done the gutless method and it was dark so I was kind of focused on that. The other thing was the pack out was going to be tough so I was just trying to get em quartered.

I plan to do some more shooting this Sunday I’ll let you know group size at longer ranges. Right now I’m only zero’d at 100 and shoot up to around 200
 
txhunter58 said:
Expand on “worked well”. How big was the exit hole? Amount of tissue damage? Hit any bones? Aprox what was your group size at 100 yds?
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Probably wasn’t that impressive… if you’re doing the gutless method you should know really quick how good the bullet did the second you knock a front shoulder off.
 
But if it only went thru ribs and lungs, it wouldn’t cause a lot of collateral damage. If it just pencilled thru, he prob wouldn’t have died fast
 
txhunter58 said:
But if it only went thru ribs and lungs, it wouldn’t cause a lot of collateral damage. If it just pencilled thru, he prob wouldn’t have died fast
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This.
Plus I wasn’t really thinking about it either but he didn’t go 50 yards before he fell
 
So far I've killed deer and elk with 143gr. ELDX, 180gr. Berger VLD, 195gr EOL berger, 169gr. Hammer Hunter, 181gr. Hammer Hunter and the 230gr. Berger Hybrid Target. They all killed, and all had their flaws. Still looking for something "better" haha. But I know all those bullets kill. Testing the 199 Hammer Hunter, 225 ELDM and 230 A-tip for 2023.
 
Huntnful said:
So far I've killed deer and elk with 143gr. ELDX, 180gr. Berger VLD, 195gr EOL berger, 169gr. Hammer Hunter, 181gr. Hammer Hunter and the 230gr. Berger Hybrid Target. They all killed, and all had their flaws. Still looking for something "better" haha. But I know all those bullets kill. Testing the 199 Hammer Hunter, 225 ELDM and 230 A-tip for 2023.
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I’ve always preferred the ELDM over the ELDX but that’s just me. Tested the 108 ELDM out my 6mm creedmoor on a considerable amount of whitetails the last week and not a single one of them took a step after being hit with it.
 
Huntnful said:
So far I've killed deer and elk with 143gr. ELDX, 180gr. Berger VLD, 195gr EOL berger, 169gr. Hammer Hunter, 181gr. Hammer Hunter and the 230gr. Berger Hybrid Target. They all killed, and all had their flaws. Still looking for something "better" haha. But I know all those bullets kill. Testing the 199 Hammer Hunter, 225 ELDM and 230 A-tip for 2023.
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What are you shooting the 199 in? mtmuley
 
I would agree that the perfect bullet hasn't been designed yet. The Nosler partition is very close to perfect but is looked down on by many modern hunters because the BC isn't high enough for long range.

Currently I'm shooting Hammer Hunters and Barnes bullets more often on big game hunts because I think they help me loose less meat. I've lost a lot of meat with Bergers, Hornady or Nosler lead bullets.

The Hammer Hunters from my 300 Win mag don't drop deer and elk as fast as Bergers, Hornady or Nosler bullets but the blood trails I've seen from the Hammers are the most impressive I've ever seen.
 
BrianID said:
I would agree that the perfect bullet hasn't been designed yet. The Nosler partition is very close to perfect but is looked down on by many modern hunters because the BC isn't high enough for long range.

Currently I'm shooting Hammer Hunters and Barnes bullets more often on big game hunts because I think they help me loose less meat. I've lost a lot of meat with Bergers, Hornady or Nosler lead bullets.

The Hammer Hunters from my 300 Win mag don't drop deer and elk as fast as Bergers, Hornady or Nosler bullets but the blood trails I've seen from the Hammers are the most impressive I've ever seen.
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I’ve always been curious about the hammers… I’ve had good results with the Barnes LRX but I’ve always trended away from them as a long range application bullet because of their performance at lower impact velocity.
 
Hammer is working on a new profile that should satisfy the shooters looking for more BC. I've decided terminal performance is way more important. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of hunters don't take advantage of the really high BC bullets anyway. mtmuley
 
mtmuley said:
I'm willing to bet the vast majority of hunters don't take advantage of the really high BC bullets anyway. mtmuley
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I'm not going to sacrifice terminal performance for BC, but I absolutely want the highest BC possible. In my opinion it's biggest value is in the wind and we need all the help we can get shooting in the wind whether we admit it or not.
 
The_Coloradoboy said:
I’ve always been curious about the hammers… I’ve had good results with the Barnes LRX but I’ve always trended away from them as a long range application bullet because of their performance at lower impact velocity.
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Low impact velocity failure is why I switched from Barnes to Hammers. The Hammer is designed to open up, even at slower impact. I've had great results so far with them, but I have yet to have any personal experience with the low speed scenario. Others claim great results at low velocity.
I'm most impressed that the Hammer developers are continuing to chase perfection. For sure no one is there yet.
 
Weiserbucks said:
I'm not going to sacrifice terminal performance for BC, but I absolutely want the highest BC possible. In my opinion it's biggest value is in the wind and we need all the help we can get shooting in the wind whether we admit it or not.
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Good point. Reading wind is an inexact science. I have my personal limits regarding wind. I don't pick my bullets with shooting in the wind in mind. mtmuley
 
Marley, my son and I killed 3 deer with the eldx this year. 50-750 yards. They are super accurate. Also killed a ton with the Bergers. I would say you found your perfect bullet until you shoot a deer and it walks off.
 
mtmuley said:
What are you shooting the 199 in? mtmuley
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I'll be testing them in a 300 Norma Mag Improved with a 1-9 twist barrel.
mtmuley said:
Hammer is working on a new profile that should satisfy the shooters looking for more BC. I've decided terminal performance is way more important. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of hunters don't take advantage of the really high BC bullets anyway. mtmuley
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I killed a buck at 840 yards and 974 yards this year. Not my preference, but I have the ability. BC really does matter at those distances with even the slightest breeze.

I also killed two deer at 200 yards this year, so don't judge me lol.

I could honestly say, if I never wanted to shoot passed 600 yards, hammer bullets, pushed out of a large capacity cartridge for the given caliber, probably are THE bullet to shoot.
 
The_Coloradoboy said:
I’ve always preferred the ELDM over the ELDX but that’s just me. Tested the 108 ELDM out my 6mm creedmoor on a considerable amount of whitetails the last week and not a single one of them took a step after being hit with it.
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Yeah if I had to error on the side of fragmenting vs. weight retention, I'm going with fragmenting. And those big ol ELDm's should carry a little extra weight throughout the cavity as well.
 
Huntnful said:
I'll be testing them in a 300 Norma Mag Improved with a 1-9 twist barrel.

I killed a buck at 840 yards and 974 yards this year. Not my preference, but I have the ability. BC really does matter at those distances with even the slightest breeze.

I also killed two deer at 200 yards this year, so don't judge me lol.

I could honestly say, if I never wanted to shoot passed 600 yards, hammer bullets, pushed out of a large capacity cartridge for the given caliber, probably are THE bullet to shoot.
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I’m having a 300 Norma imp. Built right now. I’m going to try the 245 grain berger. I’m building it in a 22” barrel though. Still should be able to push that 245 around 2900 fps.
 
Huntnful said:
I'll be testing them in a 300 Norma Mag Improved with a 1-9 twist barrel.

I killed a buck at 840 yards and 974 yards this year. Not my preference, but I have the ability. BC really does matter at those distances with even the slightest breeze.

I also killed two deer at 200 yards this year, so don't judge me lol.

I could honestly say, if I never wanted to shoot passed 600 yards, hammer bullets, pushed out of a large capacity cartridge for the given caliber, probably are THE bullet to shoot.
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Having my RUM freshened up with a Lilja and some other stuff. Looking for 3400 fps from the 199. mtmuley
 
marley said:
I’m having a 300 Norma imp. Built right now. I’m going to try the 245 grain berger. I’m building it in a 22” barrel though. Still should be able to push that 245 around 2900 fps.
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I think you’ll be right in that ballpark! My current one has a 26” barrel and the new one for next season will be 24”. I was pushing 230’s pretty easily to 3030fps with 92gr. N570.

mtmuley said:
Having my RUM freshened up with a Lilja and some other stuff. Looking for 3400 fps from the 199. mtmuley
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That would be a killer load!! If I can get them to 3300 out of a 20” barrel I’ll probably kill some stuff with them also.
 
Huntnful said:
Yeah if I had to error on the side of fragmenting vs. weight retention, I'm going with fragmenting. And those big ol ELDm's should carry a little extra weight throughout the cavity as well.
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Just saw that you have Ty at Flatline Precision do your work. Ty built my 6.5 SST and is now building my 300 Norma Imp. Ty does amazing work. My 6.5 is a stacker! This is a five shot group at 100 yards.
E2D2C651-D2B7-425D-9EF7-310DEFD770D1.jpeg
 
marley said:
Just saw that you have Ty at Flatline Precision do your work. Ty built my 6.5 SST and is now building my 300 Norma Imp. Ty does amazing work. My 6.5 is a stacker! This is a five shot group at 100 yards.
View attachment 95655
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Holy smokes!! That's encouraging to see!! I recommended to Ty by Travis Stevens. He's been great to work with so far and I'm looking forward to getting that new build back!! Hopefully the Bartlein 1-9 stacks them tight!
 
SS! said:
Why shoot it in the shoulder and waste meat?
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marley said:
I am convinced that the perfect bullet still has not been made. I realize that everyone has a different opinion about what the perfect hunting bullet should do but here's mine for discussion sake.

The perfect bullet for me would be one that is bonded like an accubond, the stouter copper walls of the accubond, the rear compartmentalized lead like a nosler partition, but shaped like and fly like an ELDX. Somebody make it and I'll buy the crap out of em.

I get the theory that you want all the energy expended in the animal but that seems to come at the expense of splattering at the closer range shots. I still like the penetration I got from an accubond or partition for those heavily quartering to or from shots.

So there's my perfect bullet. Accuracy and forgiveness of an ELDX or Berger that stays together like an Accubond that retains its weight like a partition. I'm not picky.
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I’ve seen mixed results with just about every bullet. Eldx, Eldm, Berger, Accubond, Accubond LR, Sierra Game Changer tipped. Copper bullets expand great but usually Low B.C… very excited to try the Federal Terminal Ascent coming out. Also cutting edge bullets makes some high BC copper bullets that I’ve heard are lights out on big game. Just expensive.
 
I shoot the 195 EOL out my 7mm Rum at 3125 fps. It has been a bang flop rifle on numerous deer and pronghorn out to 634 yards. The only animal that ran was a pronghorn at 200 yards that my buddy shot in Wy with it. It was a perfect behind the shoulder lung shot with baseball size exit and it ran almost 250 yards, I was amazed at the toughness of the little animal. I have not shot an elk with the 195 Berger as all my elk hunting has been archery since I got that rifle in 2016. It shoots those missiles at around 1/2 inch at 100 also which is the icing on the cake. They buck the wind reallyyyyy well also with a BC of .755 ish. I guess the only thing to make them better would to bond it or thicken the jacket at the base, like the last 1/3 of an inch or so. They do almost "blow up" on solid hits sometimes, but as others said if they are DRT who cares.
 
CJhunter26 said:
I’ve seen mixed results with just about every bullet. Eldx, Eldm, Berger, Accubond, Accubond LR, Sierra Game Changer tipped. Copper bullets expand great but usually Low B.C… very excited to try the Federal Terminal Ascent coming out. Also cutting edge bullets makes some high BC copper bullets that I’ve heard are lights out on big game. Just expensive.
Click to expand...
TA is out, or are you waiting for it to come out in a new to TA caliber?
 
The_Coloradoboy said:
View attachment 95774View attachment 95775View attachment 95776
Here’s the results of a 108 eldm out of a 6mm creedmoor.
Click to expand...
That is the problem with lead core bullets. Personally I don't eat all that bloodshot meat, I either leave it on the mountain or put it in the trash. They do drop animals fast though. I feel bad for coyote hunters in California that can't legally use lead bullets.

I shot a pronghorn this year with a 115gr Berger from my 6mm Creedmoor. The exit shoulder looked similar. I would have had less meat loss with 199gr Hammers from my 300 win.
I'm really thinking about having a custom built ultralight 6mm Creedmoor for my primary deer rifle. There are only two downsides to the 6mm
#1 It will have less energy for longer shots.
#2 It will have less penetration/energy for shots at less than ideal angels.
I've never had to worry about having enough energy while deer hunting when I've been packing a 300 win or 338 Lapua.
 
Huntnful said:
I'll be testing them in a 300 Norma Mag Improved with a 1-9 twist barrel.

I killed a buck at 840 yards and 974 yards this year. Not my preference, but I have the ability. BC really does matter at those distances with even the slightest breeze.

I also killed two deer at 200 yards this year, so don't judge me lol.

I could honestly say, if I never wanted to shoot passed 600 yards, hammer bullets, pushed out of a large capacity cartridge for the given caliber, probably are THE bullet to shoot.
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Taking long shots at deer/elk requires a bigger gun like you have set up. I agree that wind is the biggest problem for those long shots. Big bullets, high BC and lots of practice are all mandatory for the truly long shots. You can get some reasonably high BC from the hammer bullets and barnes LRX.

Performance of the bullet still matters. I shot a buck with a 300 grain Berger at about 550 yards. The bullet pencilled through that buck without ever really expanding. I'm guessing the tip wasn't really open. I should have been paying better attention. It didn't really matter though because the bullet took out the top of the heart. The ability to place the bullet where it needs to go is still more important than anything else.

We have to make all kinds of compromises on what gun/bullet we decide to hunt with. We each just have to decide what balance works for us best.
 
Firedad said:
TA is out, or are you waiting for it to come out in a new to TA caliber?
Click to expand...
Where are you finding bullets available to purchase for reloading? Midways USA has them labeled as “coming soon” for months. If you’re talking about factory I don’t shoot factory ammo and haven’t in decades.
 
BrianID said:
That is the problem with lead core bullets. Personally I don't eat all that bloodshot meat, I either leave it on the mountain or put it in the trash. They do drop animals fast though. I feel bad for coyote hunters in California that can't legally use lead bullets.

I shot a pronghorn this year with a 115gr Berger from my 6mm Creedmoor. The exit shoulder looked similar. I would have had less meat loss with 199gr Hammers from my 300 win.
I'm really thinking about having a custom built ultralight 6mm Creedmoor for my primary deer rifle. There are only two downsides to the 6mm
#1 It will have less energy for longer shots.
#2 It will have less penetration/energy for shots at less than ideal angels.
I've never had to worry about having enough energy while deer hunting when I've been packing a 300 win or 338 Lapua.
Click to expand...
It’s primarily a coyote/whitetail/antelope fun plinking gun for me. Throw a can on it, and it’s the most fun gun you own. I wouldn’t hesitate for a minute to shoot a muley with it. 25-06 was my go to gun for years and I feel like this with a 108 to 115 out performs it. But I’m extremely partial to my 6.5x47 lapua when it comes to muleys.
 
CJhunter26 said:
Where are you finding bullets available to purchase for reloading? Midways USA has them labeled as “coming soon” for months. If you’re talking about factory I don’t shoot factory ammo and haven’t in decades.
Click to expand...
My bad. Yeah I was talking factory. I would love to get into reloading. I have two shotshell presses that I’ll sit and knock out 1000 in a few hours and I really enjoy it but I’m pretty sure my wife would kill me if I spent the money to get started reloading brass.
 
The perfect bullet hasn’t been made yet. This is what I think would get pretty close.

A nosler partition/swift scirocco rear half.

(The scirocco has a super thick jacket at the rear and tapers thinner at the front half -but not enough) (the rear section of a partition has never failed yet so it wouldn’t really be needed- the thicker jacket - but extra insurance)

A Berger hybrid/hornady hollow point match tip on the front half of the bullet. (Hornady hollow point match have bigger hollow points that work well at long range but might overexpand at closer ranges) (berger is really good but needs the hollow point tips opened just a tad bigger sometimes) the bullet tips jacket would taper to .020-.025 in thickness.

The BC of the bullet will need to stay close to .600. The reason for this is high bc bullets are generally longer and that raises sectional density. High sectional density bullets are better performers for penetration.

This proposed bullet would still create large (bigger than normal) wound channels at close distances but the rear half would plow through bones and keep a straight path. For long range shots -the front half would still open (hollow point tip with a .020 jacket) and fragment and create a decent wound channel -with the rear pushing through the animal or resting in the far side of the animal.

I’m more of a match hollow point hunter (bergers/Hornady/Sierra) but those bullets aren’t perfect either. High Bc high sectional density rounds are needed if you’re using them- and the tips need to be opened some. I’ve seen excessive damage and also pencil holes with them - so they aren’t the perfect bullet either. They have worked well enough - but could be improved a lot.

I hope someone comes up with the perfect bullet. I think the one I hypothetically described could come close. If it’s made - I will surely buy them and try them. I’ve enjoyed everyone’s responses on this topic.
 
I am hoping to go on an elk hunt this fall where 400-600 yards is the norm. Rare to have a close shot.

I am going to test 3 bullets in my 7 mm rem mag with factory ammo. I don’t reload yet and won’t be able to do so before next fall.

150 gr Barnes TTSX ( Barnes Vor-Tex)
162 gr ELD-X (can’t find ELD-M) (Hornady)
155 gr Terminal Ascent. ( Federal Premium)

The TAs actually carry quite a bit more energy down range. And, in theory, they seem to be the best bullet for shooting at any range. They are a lead front with a nose cone that allows for expansion at lower velocities. And a rear solid copper core to push through. From this discussion and others I rank them in this order for the best all around bullet:

TAs
TTSX
ELD-X

Hope they shoot well! If not the TTSX is shooting 0.5” at 100 ?. Have yet to shoot ELD-X
 
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As much as I personally dislike them the 162 eldx out of the 7mm performs. Had a guy shoot a bull with them at a range that is in that 400 to 600 yard range and you’ll be able to see by the pictures how far he went…
01EFCFED-97F4-48DE-A3BD-2F150EADDEE7.jpeg
444C12EB-BCA8-4108-9724-E674D3726EC7.jpeg
 
I very much appreciate the advancements in all fields of science, over the last 150 years, and the life quality improvements protectionists have made in my life. I’m equally grateful I’m not a protectionist…….. I’d go nuts dealing with the stress and the morons….. standing in the gate.
 
marley said:
I looked at the hammer bullets too but I don't like that they are designed to drop their petals 4 inches in and then the base continues on with pencil sized hole
Click to expand...
Before last hunting season I would have whole heartedly agreed with you. I guided 3 hunters who all took antelope and mature mule deer with Hammer bullets. All 6 animals died very quickly, 2 of the deer dropped like rocks. The bullets performed as advertised, I was very impressed.
 
the eldx seems to perform well past 300 yards. any tissue pictures from that distance.

all my eldx shots at my normal 100yard +- have resulted in to much tissue damage.

my 180 tsx performed perfectly at that distance.
 
I have killed 10 animals (that I can think of right now) with the ELDX. Ranges have been from 100 yards to 890 yards on antelope, deer, and elk with my 6.5 SST (143 grain) and my 28 Nosler (175 grain). All except one cow elk have been bang-flops. The cow was hit perfectly with my 6.5 at 431 yards and she managed to struggle for 130 yards. The ELDx has been the closest to the perfect bullet for me but I still think it needs to be bonded or have a rear compartment with lead core like the nosler partition. I don't like the jacket and lead separating.
 
I was surprised that the Terminal Ascent looks good ballistically long range up against the ELD-X

155 gr TA in Federal Premium factory ammo:

45F12FC6-92BB-40D6-BF11-93002ADAC4CB.png
BEAA350D-4019-4CB6-930D-AFF894C0F08C.png
 
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The trajectory might be the same in those two cases but the TA has the muzzle velocity 160 fps faster.
 
txhunter58 said:
I am hoping to go on an elk hunt this fall where 400-600 yards is the norm. Rare to have a close shot.

I am going to test 3 bullets in my 7 mm rem mag with factory ammo. I don’t reload yet and won’t be able to do so before next fall.

150 gr Barnes TTSX ( Barnes Vor-Tex)
162 gr ELD-X (can’t find ELD-M) (Hornady)
155 gr Terminal Ascent. ( Federal Premium)

The TAs actually carry quite a bit more energy down range. And, in theory, they seem to be the best bullet for shooting at any range. They are a lead front with a nose cone that allows for expansion at lower velocities. And a rear solid copper core to push through. From this discussion and others I rank them in this order for the best all around bullet:

TAs
TTSX
ELD-X

Hope they shoot well! If not the TTSX is shooting 0.5” at 100 ?. Have yet to shoot ELD-X
Click to expand...
Txhunter, give the old 160 gr Nosler partitions a try as well. The give 0.5-0.75” three shot groups out of my REM 700 in 7mm REM Mag. I have had great success using them on elk. Killed three bulls in the 400-450 yard range and several more under 350. If you don’t handload maybe a friend nearby can load some for you to try?
 
Phantom Hunter said:
Txhunter, give the old 160 gr Nosler partitions a try as well. The give 0.5-0.75” three shot groups out of my REM 700 in 7mm REM Mag. I have had great success using them on elk. Killed three bulls in the 400-450 yard range and several more under 350. If you don’t handload maybe a friend nearby can load some for you to try?
Click to expand...
I LOVE Nosler partitions. But they are about 1.75” at 100 with federal premiums. Since 150 TTSX is 0.5” I lean that way for long range. If this was a 2-300 yard hunt, would prob stick with partitions. They just flat out work.
 
marley said:
The trajectory might be the same in those two cases but the TA has the muzzle velocity 160 fps faster.
Click to expand...
Prob due to different factory ammo and because the TA is lighter (155 gr). As I said, I may reload in the future, but this year has to be factory.

This gun also shoots Nosler Accubonds well but haven’t been able to find them lately at anywhere close to a reasonable price. Another bullet I would trust.
 
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Ok, so went and shot some Federal Premium 155 gr Terminal Ascent anmmo out of my 7mm mag for the first time. First 2 shots were almost touching at 100 yards. In the yellow circle is a 4 shot group at 200. Didn’t get to shoot further than that but my gun really likes these bullets! Would sure like to know if anyone has used them at extended range on big animals! I am pretty pumped that they may be my new bullet for elk.
37E5BCB7-9DA4-4E28-9243-67FD39C59400.jpeg
 
Started the session by bore sighting my new Vortex 5x25x50 gen 2 PST scope. Shot at 25, then 100, then 200 and ran out of time. Will be excited to stretch that out a bit and see how they do
 
Not extended range but my mule deer was 225 and rolled down the hill further than it ran. Pass through shot, broadside
 
marley said:
I am convinced that the perfect bullet still has not been made. I realize that everyone has a different opinion about what the perfect hunting bullet should do but here's mine for discussion sake.

The perfect bullet for me would be one that is bonded like an accubond, the stouter copper walls of the accubond, the rear compartmentalized lead like a nosler partition, but shaped like and fly like an ELDX. Somebody make it and I'll buy the crap out of em.

I get the theory that you want all the energy expended in the animal but that seems to come at the expense of splattering at the closer range shots. I still like the penetration I got from an accubond or partition for those heavily quartering to or from shots.

So there's my perfect bullet. Accuracy and forgiveness of an ELDX or Berger that stays together like an Accubond that retains its weight like a partition. I'm not picky.
Click to expand...
I think the bullet needs to match the caliber. Best bullet for a 30-378 would not be best for 308 win. IMO
 

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