Thoughts?

How many of you are ethical golfers who hit an errandt shot on someone's back lawn? No one is outside to ask permission. Your ball retriever won't reach it. Do you leave it for the property owner to pick up your garbage? Do you wait till your round is over and drive around to the front of the home to knock on the front door to ask permission? Do you ask for permission prior to your round of golf knowing it could go off the fairway? Do you play courses that run adjacent to private property? Is trespassing really trespassing? Inquiring minds would like to know.
 
SirHuntsalot said:
How many of you are ethical golfers who hit an errandt shot on someone's back lawn? No one is outside to ask permission. Your ball retriever won't reach it. Do you leave it for the property owner to pick up your garbage? Do you wait till your round is over and drive around to the front of the home to knock on the front door to ask permission? Do you ask for permission prior to your round of golf knowing it could go off the fairway? Do you play courses that run adjacent to private property? Is trespassing really trespassing? Inquiring minds would like to know.
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Dumbest analogy I can think of…..
 
Lots of opinions from everyone...some have been in a similar situation and some haven't...let UDWR figure it out....hopefully they'll find these guys did what they could....and made tbe best decision they could in the circumstances they created....either way a lesson will be learned...and maybe it'll help us all make better judgments too....xhit happens
 
slamdunk said:
Correct me if I missed something here, but the kid's article claimed the owners could not be reached, therefore he chose to trespass regardless.

There is no blame on landowner whatsoever here.
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Ow, maybe he tried then and, assumed the landowner would say, “sure, don’t want to waste that meat, thanks for asking”. Maybe the hunter made the right choice then, errored on the side of common sense……. maybe. Seeing as how we’re all making up maybes. Then again, maybe he didn’t, maybe he just stomped in there like a knothead and hauled it out……. You judge. I’ll keep up the maybes. Or we could just go ahead and draw and quarter him, on the spot.
 
Maybe….the last guy the land owner said “sure” to twisted his ankle and sued the LO….then claimed…well…don’t hold it against me, I’m really suing your insurance company…..
 
Homer said:
Maybe….the last guy the land owner said “sure” to twisted his ankle and sued the LO….then claimed…well…don’t hold it against me, I’m really suing your insurance company…..
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As good as anyone else’s maybes. Better than most…… good job homer……. I like those out the box…maybes.

Next?
 
Would it kind be the same as a deer getting hit by a car runs out into the farmer field dies.
So how could he be charged with wanton waste.
 
Gator said:
Would it kind be the same as a deer getting hit by a car runs out into the farmer field dies.
So how could he be charged with wanton waste.
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Except……… it didn’t, a guy shot it in the eye with an arrow……… it’s okay, we’ll slow down on that next turn.
 
2lumpy said:
Ow, maybe he tried then and, assumed the landowner would say, “sure, don’t want to waste that meat, thanks for asking”. Maybe the hunter made the right choice then, errored on the side of common sense……. maybe. Seeing as how we’re all making up maybes. Then again, maybe he didn’t, maybe he just stomped in there like a knothead and hauled it out……. You judge. I’ll keep up the maybes. Or we could just go ahead and draw and quarter him, on the spot.
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Ya, Jake posted the alibi off a social media page.

He openly claims he tried calling the number onX provided and couldn't get through to owner.

Also claimed both arrows were shot on public land, but buck died on private.

Not sure how that buck would still run away with an arrow in his brain, but apparently it did according to him.

If.....and a big if....he head shot that buck on private to finish it off, he's in deep chit, ethical or not.
 
SirHuntsalot said:
Is trespassing really trespassing? Inquiring minds would like to know.
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Are you mentally challenged? Or just stupid? Inquiring minds want to know.

Trespassing IS trespassing. It doesn’t matter the reason. In utah, if it’s posted, it’s illegal to be on that property without permission. End of story. It’s not that hard.
 
slamdunk said:
Ya, Jake posted the alibi off a social media page.

He openly claims he tried calling the number onX provided and couldn't get through to owner.

Also claimed both arrows were shot on public land, but buck died on private.

Not sure how that buck would still run away with an arrow in his brain, but apparently it did according to him.

If.....and a big if....he head shot that buck on private to finish it off, he's in deep chit, ethical or not.
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Well… if my aunt had balls……. she’d…….well hell, I don’t a know what she’s be now days…….. maybe she’d be. Oh never mind, the kid’s going down….. maybe…
 
I think you can be arrested for trespass regardless- but the DA won't go forward without the property owner's testimony. No judge or jury would convict without knowing the property owner's rights were violated.
 
I get being intimidated by an older dude when your 17, but I sure as Sh$T would have made such a racket at said location that NO deer were killed that morning on that hill...
 
Sounds like another memorable Utah Archery hunt of a life time for all involved. Fish cops with fair amount of drama, suspense, sprinkled in with an alibi, phone records, witness statements and of course chitty shot placement and spoiled meat, congrats to the lucky Self entitled trespassing hunter. Story like thats destined to be on the cover of Muley Crazy.
 
Whey don’t you guys just string them up now before you know what went down.. and also I’m glad none of you guys have made a shitty shot before. I know I have. besides that, It must not have been to bad a shot they got it!
 
ORIONTHEHUNTER said:
Why are you defending these guys so much, you related to them?
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Why are you jumping to conclusions, are you related to the other guy that went home without that buck?
Look, maybe the kids story is full of holes, maybe not but maybe let the investigators wrap up before tying the noose. I can see why so many good people left this place and why many others won’t post pictures. I know you’ll never see a picture of mine posted here.
 
Shadow said:
Why are you jumping to conclusions, are you related to the other guy that went home without that buck?
Look, maybe the kids story is full of holes, maybe not but maybe let the investigators wrap up before tying the noose. I can see why so many good people left this place and why many others won’t post pictures. I know you’ll never see a picture of mine posted here.
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Well said. Let the system do it’s job. Punish the guilty. Leave it at that.
 
Horsecorn said:
Whey don’t you guys just string them up now before you know what went down.. and also I’m glad none of you guys have made a shitty shot before. I know I have. besides that, It must not have been to bad a shot they got it!
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Well they are born and bred in Utah so you can guarantee some law was broke!
 
I took hunter safety with my youngest son in the early 2000's. The instructor had this exact situation as an example. He suggested if you couldn't get permission in time, you'd go take care of the animal and throw yourself at the mercy of the judge for trespassing.

It's definitely trespassing, but not prosecutable unless they have it perfectly posted. I'd have gone and taken care of the deer right away if I couldn't get ahold of anyone regardless.

As for the confrontation, I'd have had a gfy moment with anyone telling me what to do on the mountain.

Not condoning anything that may actually have happened, but I'm hoping the guys story is true and something they can be proud of, even in the midst of 'chit happens' sometimes.

Cheers, Pete
 
slamdunk said:
Ya, Jake posted the alibi off a social media page.

He openly claims he tried calling the number onX provided and couldn't get through to owner.

Also claimed both arrows were shot on public land, but buck died on private.

Not sure how that buck would still run away with an arrow in his brain, but apparently it did according to him.

If.....and a big if....he head shot that buck on private to finish it off, he's in deep chit, ethical or not.
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Slam, I went over this already, in the side view picture you can see that the arrow never went into the brain, it only oast through the eye socket. It went in the eye and out under the ear.

Screenshot_20220826-225722_Instagram.jpg
 
JakeH said:
Slam, I went over this already, in the side view picture you can see that the arrow never went into the brain, it only oast through the eye socket. It went in the eye and out under the ear.

View attachment 85842
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Jake after a closer look at the new pic you posted I agree with you it doesn’t look like it got into the brain.
I’m still curious what happened to the rest of the arrow?
I sincerely hope these guys are as innocent as they claim.
I just think they shouldn’t have been in such a hurry to post it out to the public under the circumstances.
And at least pull the arrowshaft out of the face,
cut out the tongue
and clean up as much blood as possible before the photos.
Those are just my personal preferences and of course everyone is free to do as they please with their own legal kills
 
What is it with Utah deer hunting stories all sounding the same? 17 people chasing one named buck who everyone in three towns has pictures of, steps off private for 10 seconds to get wacked and then there is an argument about who the buck belongs too blah blah blah. Do golf courses, libraries, school playgrounds, Wal Mart parking lots and cemeteries all get hunted in Utah?

Watched some Utah guys kill a pet buck last year in Colorado that wandered out of some old ladies property long enough to step onto public. Poor gal watched them butcher it from her porch. Sure it might have been legal, but what did they really accomplish in terms of how that lady and everyone who knows her will view hunters?

I always heard the term Utard and thought it was just statial profiling but maybe there is something to it afterall......
 
buckhorn said:
Jake after a closer look at the new pic you posted I agree with you it doesn’t look like it got into the brain.
I’m still curious what happened to the rest of the arrow?
I sincerely hope these guys are as innocent as they claim.
I just think they shouldn’t have been in such a hurry to post it out to the public under the circumstances.
And at least pull the arrowshaft out of the face,
cut out the tongue
and clean up as much blood as possible before the photos.
Those are just my personal preferences and of course everyone is free to do as they please with their own legal kills
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The arrow to the head was his kill shot according to the social media commentary.
 
marburg said:
Do golf courses, libraries, school playgrounds, Wal Mart parking lots and cemeteries all get hunted in Utah?
I always heard the term Utard and thought it was just statial profiling but maybe there is something to it afterall......
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Yes. These deer aren’t safe anywhere in this state.

Years ago, I know of a 200”+ buck that was shot in springville as he came in to get his nightly drink out of a bird bath in some old lady’s back yard. Some “hunters” knew his routine and would cruise the neighborhood in his wife’s minivan lookin for this deer. When he saw him, he’d open the sliding side doors and shoot from inside the van so no one would see him. Deer got shot and run up on the blm land boarding the property and died. The guy was (still is) a great hunter in the eyes of many. Not too many people know the true story on how this buck (and many of his other trophies) were actually killed.

Don’t underestimate a utards creativity when it comes to hunting methods. They’ll do anything to be able to cut their tag and post a pic for likes. This garbage happens more than anyone wants to think about.
 
The real point everyone is missing is why did the DNR take the buck. And why does he have a 6 second video clip on his phone portraying the he’s being bullied by the guy talking to him. Where’s the video of everything leading up to the 6 second clip. I suppose it’s edited out to keep the victim card in his favor. And he won’t say if the deer turned which it may have. Something seems fishy with this buck. But if not congrats.
 
Just a thought? Maybe someone already brought this up, But what if the other gentlemen was the land owner?

wstrntines. They lost the buck because they trespassed. That's why I suspect the older gentlemen was the landowner or knew the landowner.
 
Slam what would the consensus on an archery proficiency test prior to archery hunting be? Public land/private land ordeal aside it seems like a well placed initial shot would’ve saved lots of headache here.
 
Nockbuster98 said:
Slam what would the consensus on an archery proficiency test prior to archery hunting be? Public land/private land ordeal aside it seems like a well placed initial shot would’ve saved lots of headache here.
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No one....and I mean no one makes the perfect first shot every time....no one.
 
Homer said:
No one....and I mean no one makes the perfect first shot every time....no one.
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I definitely did not say that. I’ve been there. Most of us have. And I’m not shaming him either. Good on him for recovering his buck after a less than ideal shot. But as a general question I am asking how well you guys think a general archery proficiency test would go over?
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
Just a thought? Maybe someone already brought this up, But what if the other gentlemen was the land owner?

wstrntines. They lost the buck because they trespassed. That's why I suspect the older gentlemen was the landowner or knew the landowner.
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If the older guy was the landowner then he should have known the kid was on public land at that point and not harassed him.

Didn't they pass a law to make it illegal to interfere with a lawful hunt?

If the guy knowingly kicked the kid off public land, wouldn't he be illegally posting public property?
 
Nockbuster98 said:
I definitely did not say that. I’ve been there. Most of us have. And I’m not shaming him either. Good on him for recovering his buck after a less than ideal shot. But as a general question I am asking how well you guys think a general archery proficiency test would go over?
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I'm thinking like a lead balloon....
 
Nockbuster98 said:
Slam what would the consensus on an archery proficiency test prior to archery hunting be? Public land/private land ordeal aside it seems like a well placed initial shot would’ve saved lots of headache here.
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I would feel safe saying 95% of archers practice their hearts out several months prior to hunting and the majority shoot year round.

As mentioned by several people here, "chit happens" in real time and will with every weapon.
 
slamdunk said:
I would feel safe saying 95% of archers practice their hearts out several months prior to hunting and the majority shoot year round.

As mentioned by several people here, "chit happens" in real time and will with every weapon.
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Your experience, or lack there of, is made more clear with every post you make.
 
Homer said:
95%..?..lmmfao
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I guess I see it differently in my neck of the woods and archers I know.
Perhaps being involved with many outdoor groups and events like the Total Archery Challenge has placed me out of touch with reality?

I'm trying to advocate for the GP archery world even though I chose to hang it up years ago due to own personal line in the sand with losses of animals.

I'm not afraid to say i bet people practice with archery equipment more so than rifles or muzzleloader hunters, and I fall into the two latter groups.
But.....arrows are cheaper to shoot than bullets.
 
This past winter I did a volunteer search looking for a lost dog on a frigid morning that was potentially through ice of a river bordering private property. Time was of the essence. About halfway into one area, some screaming Karen came down the hill yelling about it being private property and I told her I don’t give a damn about that, I’m here looking for a dog thats life is in danger. I kept searching further into the private property, guess she never called the cops or if she did they said to pound sand.

Was I ethical? Was I a criminal? I’d do it 100x in a row given the same circumstances.

Uh oh, now some flat brimmer is gonna steal my dog search story as cover to access some private, just to go shoot a 220 in the eye, retrieve after dark and NOT post on IG. Creative bastards, more power too them.

(Who am I kidding, no WAY they could avoid the urge to implicate themselves on IG.)
 
ihunt4200 said:
"WTH are we posting deer with arrows through their eyes for? It couldn't have been pulled?"


Same reason you did not push this bucks bulging eyes back into socket or cover up the 5ft death crawl of blood #CSI~ Just "Thrill of the moment" Yo. Did you Post This pic on IG/FB???????????At least we know this kid is very young-n-dumb and still has a lot to learn. And you???
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Yo.

Can you read?

I already answered the IG/FB question.

And

Yo, bra

I also explained the point being shut happens, in support of the kid.

So yo, bra, read slower, think faster
 
grizzly said:
If the older guy was the landowner then he should have known the kid was on public land at that point and not harassed him.

Didn't they pass a law to make it illegal to interfere with a lawful hunt?

If the guy knowingly kicked the kid off public land, wouldn't he be illegally posting public property?
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I get it grizzly.

My point is the older gentlemen could very well be the land owner. He was the one that got a hold of the DWR without any problems.
When they got confronted was they on public or was they on private.
Nobody knows what went down here. A lot of thing could of happened here.
This is a shady deal it doesn't smell right at all.

But for the DWR to take the deer they had good reasons.
 
Elkslayer2015 said:
I get it grizzly.

My point is the older gentlemen could very well be the land owner. He was the one that got a hold of the DWR without any problems.
When they got confronted was they on public or was they on private.
Nobody knows what went down here. A lot of thing could of happened here.
This is a shady deal it doesn't smell right at all.

But for the DWR to take the deer they had good reasons.
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Well the fact that the guy stated several times that they was on public land when the old guy tried kicking them off the hill I would say they was probably on public land.

The fact that it's been established that there is video of them dragging the deer to the fence and across it paints a pretty clear picture.

I mean come on guys is it really that hard to follow?

The guy on the hill got pissed when the kid killed the buck he had been after for 4 years (according to the kids brother) and took a video of them dragging the deer off the private and turned them into the dwr. It's pretty easy to get a hold of the dwr and show them the video.

But all of that still does not discredit the kid or his brothers story. They admitted to retrieving the deer off of private, that is not being debated. At this point there is no reason to not believe the deer was shot on public and ran to private. They also claimed they showed 2 different dwr officers the shot location and proof of what all went down.

How bout we let it all play our, I'm sure they will lose the deer, if the landowner doesn't want to let them off then they most likely will lose the deer.
 
Homer said:
My only question is why was it so easy for the grumpy old man to contact DWR....and the kids couldn't.....
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Who said it was easy for him? They didn't show up right away and take the deer off the mountain from them. It's pretty easy to call the tip line leave a message and have them get back to you when they can. They had video of them dragging the deer off the private they didn't need to get ahold of them in real time like the kids did to get permission to access the land to retrieve the deer.
 
JakeH said:
Who said it was easy for him? They didn't show up right away and take the deer off the mountain from them. It's pretty easy to call the tip line leave a message and have them get back to you when they can. They had video of them dragging the deer off the private they didn't need to get ahold of them in real time like the kids did to get permission to access the land to retrieve the deer.
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ok....
 
Just to be clear again. I don't support them or know them at all, I've seen a couple posts on Instagram. And this thread here on MM that is all i know of this situation. I just want to play devils advocate and show both sides of the story. Some are way to eager to lump everything into the negative side of things, and hang them in the MM court of public opinion. ?

I still think the story they laid out is a believable one, and to me sounds like the only thing they did wrong was retrieve the deer without getting permission first, but after attemptingto get permission unsuccessfully.

To me that's not on the same level of wrong as shooting the deer on private.
 
JakeH said:
Just to be clear again. I don't support them or know them at all, I've seen a couple posts on Instagram. And this thread here on MM that is all i know of this situation. I just want to play devils advocate and show both sides of the story. Some are way to eager to lump everything into the negative side of things, and hang them in the MM court of public opinion. ?

I still think the story they laid out is a believable one, and to me sounds like the only thing they did wrong was retrieve the deer without getting permission first, but after attemptingto get permission unsuccessfully.

To me that's not on the same level of wrong as shooting the deer on private.
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Jake is there a video of Trae shooting the deer?

My post is purley speculation.
 
slamdunk said:
Certainly hasn't been "Eazy"...
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That’s life…… huh Slammy…….. your gonna long great, blue sky, Friday pay check, with 20 hours overtime on it, cute blonde riding shoot gun and some s.o.b slams on his brakes!

No pun intended…… truly!
 
2lumpy said:
That’s life…… huh Slammy…….. your gonna long great, blue sky, Friday pay check, with 20 hours overtime on it, cute blonde riding shoot gun and some s.o.b slams on his brakes!

No pun intended…… truly!
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That right there is the story of my life.....except I like brunette's ?
 
I just find it funny he claims he’s f’n victim. You trespassed you got caught. Take the accountability. The deer is seized and you’re never getting it back.
 
Can someone clarify if he posted that to Instagram before or after the deer was seized? If that was after I have to :rolleyes:
 
Squaw said:
Can someone clarify if he posted that to Instagram before or after the deer was seized? If that was after I have to :rolleyes:
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If your talking about the initial kill pictures it was definitely before it was seized.

Pictures were floating around the same day it was killed.
 
Well dang. If that story posted by Jake H is completely true that is a tough situation. They should not have tresspassed. However, if I was King for the day or the judge or the jury I'd give him a slap on the hand and let them keep the deer.
 
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