Big Buck Contest in the 60s & 70s
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SS!
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woah calm down. It’s ok if you want to wear a teenage yuppie shirt. who am I to judge? I like to watch old people falling YouTube videos.
Have a great day old man. Nice buck btw!
Bigfoot 1
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Wow, you seem to get triggered like a modern snowflake. Just wait until you get out in the real world on your own little fellow. Life is going to be a lot harder on you than what You’ve experienced with mommy and daddy so far, people won’t coddle you like you’re used to. Anyways good luck.
SS!
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Thanks for the advice! Btw when you retire that Chevy hat you should get a Hurley hat.
Bigfoot 1
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Pleas explain Hurley to me. I know what Harley is, like in Harley Davidson, it’s a motorcycle. I bet you didn’t know that. You probably ride one of those Yuppie electric scooters. How should I address you from here on out, what pronoun do you use, he, she, him, her? I want to get it right so you don’t have another meltdown.
SS!
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Netflix and chill?
Bigfoot 1
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You’re right, I’ve had enough fun with him. I make it a point in life to treat everybody the way I want to be treated. Then eventually to treat them the way they treat me. I’m sure both of us have more in common than we will ever know and could probably tell some pretty good hunting stories over a beer or two. You have a good day unless you made other plans!
SS!
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So….Netflix and chill?
SS!
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Have you watched breaking bad since you’re in NM you’ll like it.
2lumpy
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May I have your permission to print that on my tailgate?
antlerradar
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Bigfoot 1
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Got that deer in a suit and tie, snuck right up on him, deer never knew what hit him, didn’t need any camouflage!
2lumpy
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Not sure about the tie…….. the rest, could well be the truth…..….
Camo clothes was still mostly military only until the late 1970s and early 1980s…….
That buck was killed in 1968 and never mounted until 2015 by his son in law, as a birthday gift.
Do you realize most guys didn’t even have cameras in the 50s,60s. And most of the 70s.
When Kodak came out with the disposable it was a game changer.All those instant pictures posted at every sporting good store was how you found out about how many huge deer were being taken.
In just a few years word was out about all the famous places.In fact you put your name and the closed town on the picture.LOL
That’s how guys figured out were the big buck areas were.
We had no social media,no internet and very little information on hunting other states.
Looking back every Deer wall in any store had hundreds of monster deer on them.
With the huge winter kill in 82-83 across the west,and the addition of a lie detector test to
Determine winners.
It has never been the same.
When Kodak came out with the disposable it was a game changer.All those instant pictures posted at every sporting good store was how you found out about how many huge deer were being taken.
In just a few years word was out about all the famous places.In fact you put your name and the closed town on the picture.LOL
That’s how guys figured out were the big buck areas were.
We had no social media,no internet and very little information on hunting other states.
Looking back every Deer wall in any store had hundreds of monster deer on them.
With the huge winter kill in 82-83 across the west,and the addition of a lie detector test to
Determine winners.
It has never been the same.
2lumpy
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Your right fullcry, 95% of people that did have a camera had one of these, 12 pictures per roll of film. Take it into the drug store, they sent it away to get it developed and it would come back in a few weeks. Pictures were more trouble than they were worth for most of us.
2lumpy
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25 years ago I had some like that too, maybe about 15 years since the pictures had been taken. I took about 4 rolls in to see if they could develop them. As I recall, I got about 10 of the 48 frames back and the quality, which never great to begin with, was not very good at all. But, what would it hurt to send one of then in and give it a try? Might be some family treasures on there…… or……… better than a family treasure, a 150” monster muley buck.
You could post it up for SS!.
2lumpy
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Ha, oh I’m not sure we were much different in our time fullcry. The real truth is the joke’s on them, they’ll be old faster than they realize……… and the next generation will do for them, what their doing for us.
I did a little google search on getting old film developed: this might be a place to start.
I did a little google search on getting old film developed: this might be a place to start.
OutdoorWriter
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Speaking of camo & cameras...
This photo was taken in the early '60s with the camera shown below it. I believe the film size was called "620" & the print size was about 2"x3" or so.
Bigfoot 1
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Is that you holding a Remington BDL?
OutdoorWriter
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It's me, but the rifle is my trusty M70 .264 mag seen below in its reincarnated version after too many miles in a saddle scabbard.
Bigfoot 1
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Thanks. Nice bucks by the way.
OutdoorWriter
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Thanks. The 1st was off the east side of the North Kaibab & the 2nd, circa 2007, was from Colorado, just northwest of Wellington.
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Bigfoot 1
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Interesting comment.
2lumpy
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If there’s ever a time when there’s a truck load or State wide truck loads of 170” bucks, you can bet your sweet little 6.5 Creedmoor and your 1,500 yard rangefinder there’s a bunch of backpacks full of 180” too. I’m not the least bit worried you need to worry about either.
TheOneRidgeRunner
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2Lumpy
You're spot on with all that happened in 83 and then in the early 90's. A few things engrained in my memory was the slaughter of does in 87-89, I can still hear my dad talking about how the deer would never recover. The years following the slaughters it was evident the destruction was done.. I remember seeing hundreds of dead deer along the highways in '94, hanging from partially buried fences, laying in melted out areas around trees. Definitely been a downward spiral since.
You're spot on with all that happened in 83 and then in the early 90's. A few things engrained in my memory was the slaughter of does in 87-89, I can still hear my dad talking about how the deer would never recover. The years following the slaughters it was evident the destruction was done.. I remember seeing hundreds of dead deer along the highways in '94, hanging from partially buried fences, laying in melted out areas around trees. Definitely been a downward spiral since.
2lumpy
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Your father was a rare sportsman OneRidge. Clearly a man with common sense and wisdom. A downward spiral every since is exactly what it’s been. And as Slamdunk just stated about recent changes:
“Managing buck harvest is the goal behind restrictions, it has nothing to do with "herds" in general.
Two completely separate issues and statagies.”
Clearly, after over thirty years, there’s still no successful prescription/strategy to regrow a declining mule deer population on public land. If it’s not too much snow, it’s too little snow……….
I know most of the MM folks believe Slamdunk and others, who spend time with us here, in virtual reality, regarding my assessments:
“I appreciate your thoughts on the subject but again and just like the previous post, these are speculative assumptions and just a plain and poor assessment of "how and why".
“I also think we look at the same units and datasets and see different things.”
“a useful idiot”
They aren’t the only ones who believe that. I spent nine months on a State of Utah DWR mule deer committee, 7 or 8 years ago, there were 15 of us, not including the Big Game biologist/administrators of the Dept. of Wildlife Resources. Many many strategies ( possible approaching a hundred different strategies , it’s a broad and deep process) on how the State will, for a five year period manage its mule deer. As I’ve shared here before, they allowed me all the time I wanted, to present and defend my assessments and propose my strategies. In fact, it added a month or two to the process, because the rest of them allowing me to “fully” speak my piece. On almost all of the votes, on all of the strategies, the votes were almost 10/14 to one against my assessments/proposals. I often challenged them by asked them, “do you want to do this now or wait until the Utah Wildlife Board or the Utah Legislature forces you to”. Remember now, these 14 were big game hunting sportsmen, and the DWR employees. DWR employees had no vote, they were there to answer questions and explain current data sets. The only strategy I proposed that, after 6 weeks of arguing, was to require cougar management objectives by part of mule deer management plan. I won that committee vote to include it in the plan by a reasonable margin. Then, after all that, the DWR, at their discretion, removed it, prior to presenting it to the Wildlife Board for approval.
That’s when I decided, after neatly 40 years of participation in Utah’s wildlife issue, I stopped. Haven’t been back to a single wildlife meeting or any kind, for any purpose since. Why?
If our State’s hunters don’t see or want to act upon the decline population of mule deer, I have nothing of value left to offer.
I will ask this question thought, to my friends here on MM and those committee members………. after all these years of declining populations, how had your assessment and your corresponding strategies worked for you. Regarding the one strategy that the committee agree with me on, the DWR remove, was I right, did the Legislature force you to manage cougars according to mule deer population objectives or not? Rather than removing more cougars did the DWR still propose that some mule deer unit objectives be lowered rather removing more cougars, as per the Legislative Law that was pass.
Why were trail cameras restricted by the Wildlife Board? Nobody remembers it was that forced the Wildlife Board to make that policy……… Oh ya, it was the 2021 Legislature. Oh, that’s right, it was the Legislature, not the DWR. Is it just a coincidence the Wlidlife Board dealt with, a slim second before the 2022 Session closed. Typical. Only when forced by a more powerful entity. Why do think they are looking at other technology issues again now? Oh ya……. Could it be another Legislator? How you betting?
If I gave a crap anymore, like some few like Slamdunk still do, you know what you need to do if you want the decline of mule deer to turn around……. it’s not pray or do a rain dance for moisture…… it’s go to a more powerful entity……… because the bureaucrats holding these assessment meetings, where they allow the public to watch but not participate, are not going to add a fawn to the deer herd. How many more meeting do you need to watch to understand that.
An interesting conversation came up in one of the meetings with the State Committee members, before we started the meeting. He caught me outside. He said,”I’ve been watching you for the last couple months, in these meetings, and you don’t give a damn what the rest of us think of you, do you.”
It kind of caught me off guard, so I had to think for a second. It had never occurred to me to think about what people thought of me personally. I finally said, “I guess I don’t, but I do care what is happening to our mule deer herds and I guess I really don’t give a chit what people think of me.” He was a decent guy but seemed quite confused by my nature. Probably haven’t changed a whole lot over the years since then.
“Managing buck harvest is the goal behind restrictions, it has nothing to do with "herds" in general.
Two completely separate issues and statagies.”
Clearly, after over thirty years, there’s still no successful prescription/strategy to regrow a declining mule deer population on public land. If it’s not too much snow, it’s too little snow……….
I know most of the MM folks believe Slamdunk and others, who spend time with us here, in virtual reality, regarding my assessments:
“I appreciate your thoughts on the subject but again and just like the previous post, these are speculative assumptions and just a plain and poor assessment of "how and why".
“I also think we look at the same units and datasets and see different things.”
“a useful idiot”
They aren’t the only ones who believe that. I spent nine months on a State of Utah DWR mule deer committee, 7 or 8 years ago, there were 15 of us, not including the Big Game biologist/administrators of the Dept. of Wildlife Resources. Many many strategies ( possible approaching a hundred different strategies , it’s a broad and deep process) on how the State will, for a five year period manage its mule deer. As I’ve shared here before, they allowed me all the time I wanted, to present and defend my assessments and propose my strategies. In fact, it added a month or two to the process, because the rest of them allowing me to “fully” speak my piece. On almost all of the votes, on all of the strategies, the votes were almost 10/14 to one against my assessments/proposals. I often challenged them by asked them, “do you want to do this now or wait until the Utah Wildlife Board or the Utah Legislature forces you to”. Remember now, these 14 were big game hunting sportsmen, and the DWR employees. DWR employees had no vote, they were there to answer questions and explain current data sets. The only strategy I proposed that, after 6 weeks of arguing, was to require cougar management objectives by part of mule deer management plan. I won that committee vote to include it in the plan by a reasonable margin. Then, after all that, the DWR, at their discretion, removed it, prior to presenting it to the Wildlife Board for approval.
That’s when I decided, after neatly 40 years of participation in Utah’s wildlife issue, I stopped. Haven’t been back to a single wildlife meeting or any kind, for any purpose since. Why?
If our State’s hunters don’t see or want to act upon the decline population of mule deer, I have nothing of value left to offer.
I will ask this question thought, to my friends here on MM and those committee members………. after all these years of declining populations, how had your assessment and your corresponding strategies worked for you. Regarding the one strategy that the committee agree with me on, the DWR remove, was I right, did the Legislature force you to manage cougars according to mule deer population objectives or not? Rather than removing more cougars did the DWR still propose that some mule deer unit objectives be lowered rather removing more cougars, as per the Legislative Law that was pass.
Why were trail cameras restricted by the Wildlife Board? Nobody remembers it was that forced the Wildlife Board to make that policy……… Oh ya, it was the 2021 Legislature. Oh, that’s right, it was the Legislature, not the DWR. Is it just a coincidence the Wlidlife Board dealt with, a slim second before the 2022 Session closed. Typical. Only when forced by a more powerful entity. Why do think they are looking at other technology issues again now? Oh ya……. Could it be another Legislator? How you betting?
If I gave a crap anymore, like some few like Slamdunk still do, you know what you need to do if you want the decline of mule deer to turn around……. it’s not pray or do a rain dance for moisture…… it’s go to a more powerful entity……… because the bureaucrats holding these assessment meetings, where they allow the public to watch but not participate, are not going to add a fawn to the deer herd. How many more meeting do you need to watch to understand that.
An interesting conversation came up in one of the meetings with the State Committee members, before we started the meeting. He caught me outside. He said,”I’ve been watching you for the last couple months, in these meetings, and you don’t give a damn what the rest of us think of you, do you.”
It kind of caught me off guard, so I had to think for a second. It had never occurred to me to think about what people thought of me personally. I finally said, “I guess I don’t, but I do care what is happening to our mule deer herds and I guess I really don’t give a chit what people think of me.” He was a decent guy but seemed quite confused by my nature. Probably haven’t changed a whole lot over the years since then.
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DeerMadness
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DoubleDropMuley
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Now that’s how school should be , damn my school didn’t do that, but 81-82 I wasn’t old enough to hunt yet, Now days your more worried about being Shot your self , Man what I would give to go back !! At least to mid 80’s to mid 90’s ?
2lumpy
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DoubleDropMuley
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Haha I’ll stick to the 1980’s-1990’s. Trucks with alpine stereos blasting Hair bands on the drag except during hunting season, then you were out looking for those high wide and heavy bucks only to blow the opportunity with buck fever the racing down to local sporting good stores when you got back to town to see the pics of the bucks that were killed that weekend in the big buck contest, dreading school for another week ?
2lumpy
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Well…..I hate to tell ya, it wasn’t all that great…… at the time…….. there was no Flatty Hattie’s nor 6.5 Creedmoors.
brutus54
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From what I remember reading years ago. The reason they did away with the big Buck contests and giving away a jeep was illegal activities. The final nail in the coffin from what I hear was a couple of guys hunting the deep creek mountains in western Utah. And they were driving off the mountain with two nice four points in their truck. When an absolute monster ran across the road in front of them. Well the temptation was too great one guy jumped out and shot this buck right off the road. Then they cut the head off of one of the smaller four points they had. Then hurried and ran over and cut the head off this monster and swapped out the heads. Well being right next to the road of course the magpies and crows gathered on the carcass. Somebody walked over to see what was dead. And seeing a great big deer body with a small head cut off laying there. They Called the Fish & Game and they kind of figured what happened. So they took evidence from the carcass mainly the vertebrae and figured the big buck head would probably show up at a big buck contest somewhere. So they waited until somebody turned one in that matched up with the vertebrae of the buck these guys illegally shot and busted them . I tried to archive the story from Salt Lake Tribune but I couldn’t find it but I did find some guy talking about it on a form years ago with a little different story.
#5 · Jul 25, 2008
Yes sir. big buck contests ended when a guy shot a huge buck out in the deep creek mountains. Only through some testing by a forensic team, they found out the buck was shot in late September. So the person had to cough up the winnings. Also when channel 4 hosted the contest. some of the antlers never made it back to their owners, . As for me I'am glad there gone..
#5 · Jul 25, 2008
Yes sir. big buck contests ended when a guy shot a huge buck out in the deep creek mountains. Only through some testing by a forensic team, they found out the buck was shot in late September. So the person had to cough up the winnings. Also when channel 4 hosted the contest. some of the antlers never made it back to their owners, . As for me I'am glad there gone..
Bigfoot 1
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You would think they would leave the little deer and throw the big deer in the truck. No need to cut heads off.
brutus54
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I think it was Sunday afternoon of the opening weekend. And on the main road out of the east side of the range. I’m sure there was a lot of people around and they panicked and did the quickest thing they thought they could do to get away with it.
Gadjet
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Almost looks like the Burris buck.
headbones
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In reality guys the perceived glory days of our past mule deer populations were not the reality of past populations before the European settlers came to these parts. There were less mule deer here than we think. The pioneers had a few big bucks to shoot at before they really killed off everything including grizzly and bighorn sheep, that were actually more common in the hills than we probably give credit. The perceived mule deer population high was a result of the years of livestock grazing and the resultant shift in favorable forage and browse created by this ecological event with the help of widespread predator control; lot more cows and sheep and trappers back in the day. Population will go down, it may come back.? Probably not in our lifetimes. I remember as a kid in early 80s all the deer heads rotting at the dump, no one cared about the average deer antlers, hunted for the meat! Big buck contests are now a social media event between likes and followers! Still some nice bucks growing out there.
Bigfoot 1
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Good post. Lots of factors involved, I believe the two most important ones involving the reduction of population is drought and predators. I’m no expert on either, it’s just things I’ve noticed since the glory days of the 80’s. I can’t control drought but I can help with the predator problem.
idahomuleyhunter
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Lot's of truth here. People also forget the massive fire cycle of the 1920s and 1930s that lead to large increases in forage. This coupled with the extermination of wolves led to a population boom.
OutdoorWriter
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Anyone familiar with the debacle that occurred on the North Kaibab in the 1920s knows what predator eradication does.
2lumpy
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That’s what the 270 was made for…….. so the public could make sure that never happened again.
It’s been a 100 years……….. It hasn’t.
We’re damn damn damn good at killing mule deer.
idahomuleyhunter
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I don't but I can imagine. I lived in TN long enough to see what unchecked deer can do, and that's not in a dessert environment.
OutdoorWriter
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I've written several articles about it, but they're all on a broke down computer.
You can read about it here, however.
Heffelfinger, J.R. 2014. Kaibab Plateau: The history of the country's most famous herd (Part 1). Mule Deer Magazine. May/June issue.
Heffelfinger, J.R. 2014. Kaibab Plateau: Transition from quantity to quality (Part 2). Mule Deer Magazine. July/August issue.
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idahomuleyhunter
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Good article. Thanks.
Bigfoot 1
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Read it all, very interesting. Just reaffirms my belief that hunting is a necessity for humans as well as animals.
OutdoorWriter
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In my effort to get rid of a lot of stuff before I enter the furnace, I recently sold this very rare book that had been published by AGFD in the 1960s. It had oodles of great information in it, including lots of historical photos. Several of them show the trees on the plateau after the disastrous years. They were girdled to the trunks for as high as a deer could reach on its hind legs.
idahomuleyhunter
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Also that desired outcomes and the method to get there can be counterintuitive.
OutdoorWriter
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Jim Heffelfinger is one of the most respected deer biologists in the country. There are several good reads on his site that delve into genetics, CWD, etc. This is a link to overall list.
