Big Buck Contest in the 60s & 70s

Iddogguy

Active Member
Messages
363
Back in the 60s & 70s in Southeast Idaho. Sunset Sporting Goods & Cal Ranch had Big Buck contests. People would bring in their deer and get them measured. I believe they measured height, width & the number of points. Then they'd take a polaroid picture and staple it to a sheet of plywood. There were usually a couple pieces of plywood. Anyone remember that? Wonder what they did with all those pictures. There were some giants!!!! Lots of unreal nontypical deer taken back then. Mark
 
Moved here to Idaho Falls in 1976. Several friends worked a CAL Ranch and another managed Sunset Sports then. I used to take a lot of people for late season deer in 66/69 and killed some big ones. They used to write your name and phone # on the back, and returned if you wanted them. Because they were Polaroids, they didn't keep well and staples thru them caused fading quickly. I think they just pitched them.
It took us about ten years to get them to split to typ and non-typ categories. We used 50" for the criteria for big bucks (30 +20) and points. A couple skinny ugly NT's won one year over great bucks, and they changed the rules.
 
Didn't a guy own a Inn up there (Rainbow or something like that) that had a huge collection of those racks.
 
Gator: You are thinking of Rainbow's End B&B. Owned by Aly Bruner, who was a rich eccentric collector, originally from California. We stopped in one time to see him and visit. He wanted an entrance fee to talk to him and see inside his place. He got in trouble with IDFG,several times, and there were a bunch of people in Challis who hated his guts!!

 
Gator: You are thinking of Rainbow's End B&B. Owned by Aly Bruner, who was a rich eccentric collector, originally from California. We stopped in one time to see him and visit. He wanted an entrance fee to talk to him and see inside his place. He got in trouble with IDFG,several times, and there were a bunch of people in Challis who hated his guts!!

Love it when dirtbags get busted!!!!!!
That big nontypical hanging in the Pocatello office was poached also, what a waste!
 
"He was sentenced to 360 days in jail with 310 days suspended and held at the court's discretion. He immediately began serving the first 10 of the remaining 50 days. Bruner will serve out the remaining 40 days during the first 10 days of the deer hunting season each of the next four years. He also lost his hunting, fishing and trapping privileges for the next six years. During this time he can't be in the field or any vehicle with a firearm, nor can he go hunting, fishing or trapping with others. He can't be on public land without permission from his probation officer, and he is subject to searches of his vehicles or home by a police or probation officer."

Wow, why can't that judge get every poaching case!
 
My wife and I were traviling around Idaho years ago and spent a night at Rainbows End. He had many impressive mounts and racks. I thought it would be fun to chat with him. NOT ! He and his wife did not make you feel very comfortable. Was glad to hear he finally got what he had coming.
 
Gator: You are thinking of Rainbow's End B&B. Owned by Aly Bruner, who was a rich eccentric collector, originally from California. We stopped in one time to see him and visit. He wanted an entrance fee to talk to him and see inside his place. He got in trouble with IDFG,several times, and there were a bunch of people in Challis who hated his guts!!

Remember when he used to post here and give away t shirts?
 
Utah's big buck contests were all widest buck back in the day. I recall Ziniks Sporting Goods used to give away a jeep for the widest buck. That's probably why they went out of business. There were always a few 40"ers.
I met Zeke working the gun counter in their Orem store! We were both wet behind the ears. He sold me my first rifle for $125. A Remington BDL.
 
I grew up in southeast Idaho (soda springs) and I remember the big buck contests at the local tire shops in the 80s and into 90-92 seen a lot of great bucks in those days. After the hard winter of 92 they just never seemed to have recovered since then.
 
How about a buck from the 50’s? This is a buck my dad shot when he was in his teens. Nice gun, thinking it’s a Savage 99. Dad passed away this week. My love for hunting and the outdoors comes from him.

A2744487-3C2F-45AC-A5CB-58ECE8DCCA1E.jpeg
 
Utah's big buck contests were all widest buck back in the day. I recall Ziniks Sporting Goods used to give away a jeep for the widest buck. That's probably why they went out of business. There were always a few 40"ers.
I met Zeke working the gun counter in their Orem store! We were both wet behind the ears. He sold me my first rifle for $125. A Remington BDL.
My ole man took second place in 63 for a buck that was 39" typical 4 point and the one that won was 41" but was smaller it had kickers that made it wider.
A dirt bag stole those horns from my Dad we never got them back he shot it in what we call the Henries now.
 
My first big buck took 2nd place I believe it was at the Sunset Sporting Goods store in Roy, Utah. That was in the 80's though, not 60's and 70's.

Those photos would sure be fun to see!


I loved that creeky old store.

No Bronco 2 for second place??
 
Sunset got bought out (I think?) by Gart Bros here in Rock Springs. They both had big buck contests every year, and many huge bucks were brought in. Box score is how they did it. Outside spread+ height+ number of scorable (1"+) points. After Gart Bros got bought out, a local car dealership carried on the contest. They scored the bucks according to B&C gross score. I entered some of my bucks in these contests and won with my buck in '91 or '92. It was always fun to see all the big bucks. Some real toads over the years!
 
Sunset got bought out (I think?) by Gart Bros here in Rock Springs. They both had big buck contests every year, and many huge bucks were brought in. Box score is how they did it. Outside spread+ height+ number of scorable (1"+) points. After Gart Bros got bought out, a local car dealership carried on the contest. They scored the bucks according to B&C gross score. I entered some of my bucks in these contests and won with my buck in '91 or '92. It was always fun to see all the big bucks. Some real toads over the years!
Miss those days, liked just seeing what was out there, definitely see a lot of bucks otherwise you wouldn’t hear about !!
 
Back in the fifty's and and sixty's the bar in the tiny SE Montana town near me had a big buck contest. Old timers say that it took a very big deer to win, and this buck is one of the best. The hunter won the contest and sold the antlers to an Nebraska hunter for a grand total of 75 dollars.
avon deer (2).jpg
 
Back in the fifty's and and sixty's the bar in the tiny SE Montana town near me had a big buck contest. Old timers say that it took a very big deer to win, and this buck is one of the best. The hunter won the contest and sold the antlers to an Nebraska hunter for a grand total of 75 dollars.View attachment 71727
That buck was obviously shot near a road, given it's in the back of the truck and not even gutted! Incredible good old days.
 
How about a buck from the 50’s? This is a buck my dad shot when he was in his teens. Nice gun, thinking it’s a Savage 99. Dad passed away this week. My love for hunting and the outdoors comes from him.

View attachment 71464
Lost my dad in 2017. I had to retire overnight and move back to take care of my ailing mother. Like you we hunted and fished all we could. What I would give for just one more camp fire….
 
I grew up in southeast Idaho (soda springs) and I remember the big buck contests at the local tire shops in the 80s and into 90-92 seen a lot of great bucks in those days. After the hard winter of 92 they just never seemed to have recovered since then.
There was a sporting goods store in Montpelier I cannot remember the name who had some great bucks
 
H
Gator: You are thinking of Rainbow's End B&B. Owned by Aly Bruner, who was a rich eccentric collector, originally from California. We stopped in one time to see him and visit. He wanted an entrance fee to talk to him and see inside his place. He got in trouble with IDFG,several times, and there were a bunch of people in Challis who hated his guts!!

He never got kicked off MM though......must have been a nice guy.
 
Remember when he used to post here and give away t shirts?
I remember it like it was yesterday. I think may still have the email he sent me threating to sue me for slander. I told him it would only hold up if it wasn't true. Didn't hear back form him.
 
This buck disappeared from a Cedar City store after a big buck contest……probably needed to…the Old Guy was a “full time” deer hunter and couldn’t exactly explain what side of the Az/Utah line he shot it on…..familiar story?
0765CDBB-21BC-4EF3-B33D-6DC10FBF57C1.png
 
I grew up in southeast Idaho (soda springs) and I remember the big buck contests at the local tire shops in the 80s and into 90-92 seen a lot of great bucks in those days. After the hard winter of 92 they just never seemed to have recovered since then.
Yup, I do. It was what has become called
“ a tipping point” event or place in time. We never recognize one when we cross it……… until years later. Takes a while for us common folk to notice. Some longer than others.
 
Yup, I do. It was what has become called
“ a tipping point” event or place in time. We never recognize one when we cross it……… until years later. Takes a while for us common folk to notice. Some longer than others.
I gotta wonder how that hard winter was different than other winters in the past...and, conversely, how it was similar.
 
I gotta wonder how that hard winter was different than other winters in the past...and, conversely, how it was similar.
Fed
The winter of 92’ we had over 7’ of snow on the ground in town. You couldn’t even see a car parked in the driveway. That was the first year that my family was brought feed pellets to feed the elk and deer that were wintering on our property and others around.
 
I gotta wonder how that hard winter was different than other winters in the past...and, conversely, how it was similar.
The mule deer in Utah, especially in South Central Utah, took a huge hit from what the meteorologists called a “once in a century” flood in the late spring of 1983. Cased by extremely heavy snow, that stayed on both the summer range as well as the winter range, until nearly the first week of June. By the last week of June, Salt Lake City’s State Street and Main Streets were literally sandbagged three feet high and ranging rivers. Sevier County was a 7’ deep lake that was 6 miles wide and 21 miles long, from the town of Monroe to Salina. It took a month to empty. Over the next six years the South Central Utah sportsmen were screaming, day and night, over the loss of our mule deer. It was bad enough that we pushed the Fish & Game into hunting only three point or better bucks, to improve buck to doe ratios which were as low as two buck per hundred doe, on some ranges. They granted the antler restrictions and told sportsmen “there is more than one way to change the buck/doe ratio and they started killing does, at a rate of 6,000/8,000 per year, in South Central Utah per, until 1994.

In 1992/1993 another harsh winter hit Utah. The depth of snow wasn’t as deep nor did the melt come as late in the year but that year there was decent snow pack on the winter range which warmed up early in January and then Utah encounter 3 months of consistent bitter cold weather, that crusted the snow on the winter range over 6 to 8” deep. It stayed hard crusted over until last April. (By comparison we usually start greening up in early March). All over Utah, hundred/thousands of mule deer were dying in peoples yards, trying to find something to eat. Most, but not all hunters immediately recognized the loss. However thousands of young hunters, who weren’t as familiar with traditional mule deer populations….. as some of older guys where didn’t have the back ground to notice the loss and put up a tremendous out cry whenever reducing hunting tags was even considered. Some still are but, as I’ve watch their behavior the last year or two it seems as some of the more vocal, younger hunter, from say 10/12 years ago seem to be starting to worry, like we were 40 years ago. Funny what a little time and experience does to a person I guess.

My belief, for what that’s worth, is this, the loss of the predator poison 1080 in the 1950/1960 caused the coyote, cougar, bear, and eagle populations to slowly but surely increase. While the predator population may not have reached their range’s carrying capacity for coyote, cougar, bear, and eagle by 1982/83 it was getting close. It certain is at it’s carrying capacity now. Combine the increasing loss to predators, the unnoticed loss of mule deer to loss to the unrecognized winter kill in the spring of 1983, and the 6,000/8,000 antlerless doe tags, every year between 1985 and 1993, WE put the Utah mule deer population at “a tipping point”.

The bitter cold snow crusted winter in 1992/93 was the push that tipped it over, and forced the mule deer population to fall below its ability out produce it’s mortality rates.

Prior to 1993, Fish and Game data reports show fawn survival rates were consistently above 75 per 100 doe, spring count, in most units. They are rarely over 50/60 per 100 now and they have been that low for nearly 30 years. (A 50/60% fawn survival rate will never, under current environment/social conditions to create a surplus population.). And they have and will continue to stay that way because of the 50 plus reason that elkassassin is constantly referring to. And it’s those 50 plus reasons that elkassassin claims have to be changed “simultaneously” or nothing will change for our mule deer populations. I have come to believe he is absolutely correct and I can not see any possible way it can or will ever happen simultaneously.

Once it tipped, there is no way it can tip back.

I hope I’m wrong……. If anyone thinks it can, I would be delighted to hear their rational for thinking it can or will.
 
does swim better than bucks??
Nope……. Hunters kill bucks. In 1982 we killed over 82,000 the next year, under 60,000 and it has dropped gradully every since, with a rare year or two flat spot. ?

eel, can you spare a couple gallons of kerosine…… I’m can see I need to take a trip to Bakersfield…….
 
...lol...just a logic quesion....after he big flood the B/D ratio was 2/100....
Good point, I figured that’s what you meant. The F&G Buck harvest data for 1982 that showed 82,000 bucks killed, were killed before the winter kill, in the spring of 1983.

The reason I know what the buck ratio was is because there was a huge blow up with our F&G in the summer of 1983. Over 600 sportsmen met with the F&G in the high school gym in Monroe, Utah. Filled it to capacity. It the time the concern was not the lack of mule deer or the decline of the mule deer, it as the buck doe ratios we were seeing during the rut and on the winter range, the years prior to the floor year and the biologists from our local US Forest Service and BLM biologists, who had come to the Sevier Wildlife Federation and told us……… they had started do winter range mule deer counts because they were extremely alarmed at the low buck doe ratios of our herds. And, they were also alarmed a the dangerously young age class ratio. They were predicting a pending disaster. A disaster that came but not for the reasons they initially alarmed over. We asked them in that meeting what they could do about the buck/doe ratio. They said, “Nothing, that’s why we came to give you this buck/doe data.” We ask why there was nothing they could do. They said, “We manage the habitat, the F&G manage the wildlife and they are already pissed off because they don’t think we should even be doing these mule deer counts. You guys are going to have to “make” your F&G do something because we can’t.”

So we knew buck/doe ratios were in the tank…….. that’s way we called for the meeting at the high school. That was, before the big snow, late spring melt and flood in the spring of 1983.

Now…….. if you wanna fact check me ya best hurry, of the 600 folks at that meeting there are likely less than 50 guys left alive today, that know the history. The Regional Manager from the group that came to us from the BLM is 95 years this year and the others are well into their 80. I’ll be 75 this year.
 
Well we know what happened to all the Big Bucks now! :LOL::LOL:
Ha, and these are the bucks that the hunters knew weren’t big enough to win a Jeep at Zinks or the Casino in Vegas….. there were contest just like these in every little town in Utah from the 1950-1980. Probable in every town in every Western State. Such a sad loss of a resource.
 
Ha, and these are the bucks that the hunters knew weren’t big enough to win a Jeep at Zinks or the Casino in Vegas….. there were contest just like these in every little town in Utah from the 1950-1980. Probable in every town in every Western State. Such a sad loss of a resource.
Sad but true. I’ve seen pictures of the Bucks in NM my grandfather and my dad took before I was born and can only dream of taking one like those. They were so common back then that guys didn’t mount the antlers, nobody in my family back then ever had the money to shoulder mount anything, it was all about the meat and many antlers were thrown away with the hide or lost over the years.
 
Sad but true. I’ve seen pictures of the Bucks in NM my grandfather and my dad took before I was born and can only dream of taking one like those. They were so common back then that guys didn’t mount the antlers, nobody in my family back then ever had the money to shoulder mount anything, it was all about the meat and many antlers were thrown away with the hide or lost over the years.
Yup, they figured there would always be another one next year and the year after. We all have a difficult time when it comes to predicting the future.
 
While I’ll agree there were more big bucks back then they still were not that common. 90% of mm’s members would be crying about lack of quality if they could of hunt during that era. If big bucks were so common back then you wouldn’t see all those old school bragging pics.
 
While I’ll agree there were more big bucks back then they still were not that common. 90% of mm’s members would be crying about lack of quality if they could of hunt during that era. If big bucks were so common back then you wouldn’t see all those old school bragging pics.
Can you show me pictures like that today?
 
There is no way those guys shot those deer - they're not wearing any GoreTex Windstopper merino synthetic pixelated desert camo and those rifles have wooden stocks without adjustable turret scopes. Farm deer at best but likely Photoshop pranks. ?
Plus I just learned those deer weren’t common back then. Definitely photoshop!
 
While I’ll agree there were more big bucks back then they still were not that common. 90% of mm’s members would be crying about lack of quality if they could of hunt during that era. If big bucks were so common back then you wouldn’t see all those old school bragging pics.
True giants weren’t common, but they killed monsters in most every small community. Upper 20 to lower 30 heavy horned deer were common. Guys passed on that type of deer looking for upper 30 inch giants. But most probably just shot one for meat & some just left the horns no matter the size.Times were different them. People hunted local, most didn’t have extra money to hunt far from home. A lot of the county roads weren’t plowed in the winter. Deer could winter in places unmolested. Where now they’re constantly being pushed around by traffic. In that era small trips were big deals because money was tight for most everyone. Look at the small country homes where large families lived makes you realize how tough times & people were.
 
The mule deer in Utah, especially in South Central Utah, took a huge hit from what the meteorologists called a “once in a century” flood in the late spring of 1983. Cased by extremely heavy snow, that stayed on both the summer range as well as the winter range, until nearly the first week of June. By the last week of June, Salt Lake City’s State Street and Main Streets were literally sandbagged three feet high and ranging rivers. Sevier County was a 7’ deep lake that was 6 miles wide and 21 miles long, from the town of Monroe to Salina. It took a month to empty. Over the next six years the South Central Utah sportsmen were screaming, day and night, over the loss of our mule deer. It was bad enough that we pushed the Fish & Game into hunting only three point or better bucks, to improve buck to doe ratios which were as low as two buck per hundred doe, on some ranges. They granted the antler restrictions and told sportsmen “there is more than one way to change the buck/doe ratio and they started killing does, at a rate of 6,000/8,000 per year, in South Central Utah per, until 1994.

In 1992/1993 another harsh winter hit Utah. The depth of snow wasn’t as deep nor did the melt come as late in the year but that year there was decent snow pack on the winter range which warmed up early in January and then Utah encounter 3 months of consistent bitter cold weather, that crusted the snow on the winter range over 6 to 8” deep. It stayed hard crusted over until last April. (By comparison we usually start greening up in early March). All over Utah, hundred/thousands of mule deer were dying in peoples yards, trying to find something to eat. Most, but not all hunters immediately recognized the loss. However thousands of young hunters, who weren’t as familiar with traditional mule deer populations….. as some of older guys where didn’t have the back ground to notice the loss and put up a tremendous out cry whenever reducing hunting tags was even considered. Some still are but, as I’ve watch their behavior the last year or two it seems as some of the more vocal, younger hunter, from say 10/12 years ago seem to be starting to worry, like we were 40 years ago. Funny what a little time and experience does to a person I guess.

My belief, for what that’s worth, is this, the loss of the predator poison 1080 in the 1950/1960 caused the coyote, cougar, bear, and eagle populations to slowly but surely increase. While the predator population may not have reached their range’s carrying capacity for coyote, cougar, bear, and eagle by 1982/83 it was getting close. It certain is at it’s carrying capacity now. Combine the increasing loss to predators, the unnoticed loss of mule deer to loss to the unrecognized winter kill in the spring of 1983, and the 6,000/8,000 antlerless doe tags, every year between 1985 and 1993, WE put the Utah mule deer population at “a tipping point”.

The bitter cold snow crusted winter in 1992/93 was the push that tipped it over, and forced the mule deer population to fall below its ability out produce it’s mortality rates.

Prior to 1993, Fish and Game data reports show fawn survival rates were consistently above 75 per 100 doe, spring count, in most units. They are rarely over 50/60 per 100 now and they have been that low for nearly 30 years. (A 50/60% fawn survival rate will never, under current environment/social conditions to create a surplus population.). And they have and will continue to stay that way because of the 50 plus reason that elkassassin is constantly referring to. And it’s those 50 plus reasons that elkassassin claims have to be changed “simultaneously” or nothing will change for our mule deer populations. I have come to believe he is absolutely correct and I can not see any possible way it can or will ever happen simultaneously.

Once it tipped, there is no way it can tip back.

I hope I’m wrong……. If anyone thinks it can, I would be delighted to hear their rational for thinking it can or will.
I too remember those harsh winters, DeLoss. I rummaged through my old records and found the deer regulations for 1989 forward. I wish I had kept them from earlier years as well! I thought I would attach a couple pics of the 1991 regulations. Apparently, WGFD could see the writing on the wall when comparing deer carrying capacity (especially winter range) to the numbers of deer. '92-'93 was the tipping point here in Wyoming as well. Deer numbers crashed after that winter, and have never fully recovered to what the herd numbers were before then. I remember attending a G&F meeting where they wanted to discuss( actually just tell us what they were going to do) the possibility of lowering the objective from 50k deer to 35k in the Wyoming Range herd many years later.

Additional doe/fawn tags numbered 8,000 for the Wyoming Range units 143, 144, and 135 (back then it was 135,136,137). That's not a misprint. 8,000 for those 3 units. Several thousand more doe/fawn tags were given out throughout the sw corner of the state as well. So...upwards of 13,000 or more D/F tags were given out in 1991 (although many of them may have never been bought). You can bet that most of those were sold for half price! Why would anyone pay full price when we all knew they were going on sale right before( and during) the hunt?I didn't check the 1990 regs, but there were plenty of D/F tags then as well as previous years. Sure would be nice if we had that many does around now!

If you include taking a whitetail deer, you could legally take up to 13 deer in Wyoming in 1991. 13.

G&F got a ton of flack from hunters after that season. Many deer died on the winter range due to lack of available forage and deep snow with cold temps. But mostly, there was just too many deer for the available habitat. Makes one wonder if the toll would have been higher if not for the liberal D/F tags. Who knows?

General season stayed open till Oct 31 in 1992. It had been closing Oct 25 in previous years, but G&F wanted more deer killed in '92. That last week got super cold. The migration started due to the sub-zero temps. The hunting was incredible! Deer were everywhere. My buddy and I both killed great bucks; mine taking 1st place in the local big buck contest.

That winter took a huge toll on the deer herds for sure. It's never been the same since...

IMG_0590.JPG


IMG_0588.JPG
 
I too remember those harsh winters, DeLoss. I rummaged through my old records and found the deer regulations for 1989 forward. I wish I had kept them from earlier years as well! I thought I would attach a couple pics of the 1991 regulations. Apparently, WGFD could see the writing on the wall when comparing deer carrying capacity (especially winter range) to the numbers of deer. '92-'93 was the tipping point here in Wyoming as well. Deer numbers crashed after that winter, and have never fully recovered to what the herd numbers were before then. I remember attending a G&F meeting where they wanted to discuss( actually just tell us what they were going to do) the possibility of lowering the objective from 50k deer to 35k in the Wyoming Range herd many years later.

Additional doe/fawn tags numbered 8,000 for the Wyoming Range units 143, 144, and 135 (back then it was 135,136,137). That's not a misprint. 8,000 for those 3 units. Several thousand more doe/fawn tags were given out throughout the sw corner of the state as well. So...upwards of 13,000 or more D/F tags were given out in 1991 (although many of them may have never been bought). You can bet that most of those were sold for half price! Why would anyone pay full price when we all knew they were going on sale right before( and during) the hunt?I didn't check the 1990 regs, but there were plenty of D/F tags then as well as previous years. Sure would be nice if we had that many does around now!

If you include taking a whitetail deer, you could legally take up to 13 deer in Wyoming in 1991. 13.

G&F got a ton of flack from hunters after that season. Many deer died on the winter range due to lack of available forage and deep snow with cold temps. But mostly, there was just too many deer for the available habitat. Makes one wonder if the toll would have been higher if not for the liberal D/F tags. Who knows?

General season stayed open till Oct 31 in 1992. It had been closing Oct 25 in previous years, but G&F wanted more deer killed in '92. That last week got super cold. The migration started due to the sub-zero temps. The hunting was incredible! Deer were everywhere. My buddy and I both killed great bucks; mine taking 1st place in the local big buck contest.

That winter took a huge toll on the deer herds for sure. It's never been the same since...

View attachment 72246

View attachment 72247
Love those old wildlife reports nontypical, they keep the history at least partially intact. I’ve got a friend that has volumes, that go back into the 1960. They are a priceless treasure.
 
We had big buck contest in the Phx area, too. I think Yellowfront stores ran one & a couple independent places did as well.

One year circa mid-'80s, I hunted whitetail in Nova Scotia. They don't do antlers there; they use weight.

So one night I drove into the little town of Truro with the lodge owner's daughter to buy a bunch of lobster tails for dinner that night. The fish place was next to a sporting goods store that had a contest going on. There was a large A-shaped sign board out front that had the current leaders listed. The top 5 were all over 400 pounds!

The next day, one of the hunters at the lodge killed his buck, & they had it loaded in the bed of a PU. The back was resting against one side, but the legs went over the top of the other side. It didn't hit 400, but it was over 375 on a legit hanging scale.
 
Last edited:
Actually there were way more of those monster bucks than you would believe.
The difference was most guys were not even thinking about rack sizes.
That’s why some of the old kill pics were “how many deer they killed,not the size”.
Kurt Darner started the whole MONSTER
MULEY thing!
At that point everyone started the big deer craze.
Darner brought the concept of get high glass,glass glass.And added how to start hunting out of your state.
Something only Californians really did.
His book “How to kill Giant bucks”is still 40 years later the best mule deer hunting book ever written.
Of course he left out the part that lots of guys were party hunting(which was legal) and the fact they were hunting out of season on the winter ranges.
Nobody back then even knew what a winter range was! LOL
Like him or not he was a huge reason guys started to lock up land and guide.
That’s when the money started….
Wouldn’t you love to have some of those old photo walls now?
 
Lol
A guy can read that book and still get goose bumps.
Plus learn a lot to.The concepts were revolutionary. The method left much to be desired?
 
I don't think this will ever be possible in any state again as the mule deer herds continue to decline. This is one of my favorite pics out of the past. (Elko County, NV in the 60's- 8 hunters, 8 days- somewhere out of Tuscarora, Nevada)

View attachment 72355
Yep, and some believe that bucks like that weren’t common back in those days.
 
While I’ll agree there were more big bucks back then they still were not that common. 90% of mm’s members would be crying about lack of quality if they could of hunt during that era. If big bucks were so common back then you wouldn’t see all those old school bragging pics.
If you didn’t live through it, you’re basing your “not that common” statement as an assumption, not on a fact.

Another statement of fact, based on an assumption is that 90% of MM members would have been crying about the lack of quality.

And again, another assumption statement that is not a fact is, if big bucks were common you wouldn’t see all those old school pictures.

All three are either assumptions or are SS! entertaining himself…….. Either are cool.

Supposing it is your assumption that big bucks were not that common back then, you must have thought about it and have some rational as to why you believe that, other than a lack of more pictures?

Question for SS! Or anyone else.

To keep the definition of a “big buck” the same, Let’s establish it at 180” B & C gross score. A “big buck” doesn’t require symmetry………. for this analysis.

So….. how many big mule deer bucks per thousand do you think are shot today, based on your assumptions. I’m saying assumptions because I don’t believe anybody knows for sure. Would it be 1, 2, 3, 10, 15, 20 per thousand.

My “assumption” is 12/1000.

Yours?
 
Buy Ryan Hatfield's Idaho's Greatest Mule Deer, great read and he breaks down the numbers on these things. Adams county, as an example from his book has 26 record book bucks pre 1985 and 2 from 85-03. If any other states have books like this I'd buy one. I don't know about those ratios but in Idaho the number of big bucks is way down.

I'm not old enough to remember the good ol days but I grew up across the street form a man who grew up on a Salmon River homestead. He had more 170/180 class bucks rotting on his woodpile than any of us could hope to kill. That wasn't good enough back then. Things really aren't as good.
 
If you didn’t live through it, you’re basing your “not that common” statement as an assumption, not on a fact.

Another statement of fact, based on an assumption is that 90% of MM members would have been crying about the lack of quality.

And again, another assumption statement that is not a fact is, if big bucks were common you wouldn’t see all those old school pictures.

All three are either assumptions or are SS! entertaining himself…….. Either are cool.

Supposing it is your assumption that big bucks were not that common back then, you must have thought about it and have some rational as to why you believe that, other than a lack of more pictures?

Question for SS! Or anyone else.

To keep the definition of a “big buck” the same, Let’s establish it at 180” B & C gross score. A “big buck” doesn’t require symmetry………. for this analysis.

So….. how many big mule deer bucks per thousand do you think are shot today, based on your assumptions. I’m saying assumptions because I don’t believe anybody knows for sure. Would it be 1, 2, 3, 10, 15, 20 per thousand.

My “assumption” is 12/1000.

Yours?
Ummmm. I didn’t say it was a fact. That’s cool you think you remember it as a time of big bucks everywhere. But sadly that wasn’t the case. Big bucks have always been special because there’s never been a ton of them. And of course there were more big bucks because there were more deer. The older age class is still the smallest % of any herd. Once they get to 5 years old the odds start stacking against them. Hunting is just one factor.

Look at how many bucks over 300” have been killed in the last 20 years than rest of history. Spoiler alert more now than then.

So yeah keep showing me pics of the good old days with dink bucks in it and I’ll keep not being impressed. Thanks!
 
Ummmm. I didn’t say it was a fact. That’s cool you think you remember it as a time of big bucks everywhere. But sadly that wasn’t the case. Big bucks have always been special because there’s never been a ton of them. And of course there were more big bucks because there were more deer. The older age class is still the smallest % of any herd. Once they get to 5 years old the odds start stacking against them. Hunting is just one factor.

Look at how many bucks over 300” have been killed in the last 20 years than rest of history. Spoiler alert more now than then.

So yeah keep showing me pics of the good old days with dink bucks in it and I’ll keep not being impressed. Thanks!
They weren't feeding corn in eastern Colorado to mule deer in the good ol days. These were public land buy a tag and go shoot one.
 
Ummmm. I didn’t say it was a fact. That’s cool you think you remember it as a time of big bucks everywhere. But sadly that wasn’t the case. Big bucks have always been special because there’s never been a ton of them. And of course there were more big bucks because there were more deer. The older age class is still the smallest % of any herd. Once they get to 5 years old the odds start stacking against them. Hunting is just one factor.

Look at how many bucks over 300” have been killed in the last 20 years than rest of history. Spoiler alert more now than then.

So yeah keep showing me pics of the good old days with dink bucks in it and I’ll keep not being impressed. Thanks!
ok, I’ll bite. Just exactly how many bucks over 300”have been killed in the last 20 years? And how many bucks have been killed over 300” in all the years before 20 years ago?
 
If you didn’t live through it, you’re basing your “not that common” statement as an assumption, not on a fact.

Another statement of fact, based on an assumption is that 90% of MM members would have been crying about the lack of quality.

And again, another assumption statement that is not a fact is, if big bucks were common you wouldn’t see all those old school pictures.

All three are either assumptions or are SS! entertaining himself…….. Either are cool.

Supposing it is your assumption that big bucks were not that common back then, you must have thought about it and have some rational as to why you believe that, other than a lack of more pictures?

Question for SS! Or anyone else.

To keep the definition of a “big buck” the same, Let’s establish it at 180” B & C gross score. A “big buck” doesn’t require symmetry………. for this analysis.

So….. how many big mule deer bucks per thousand do you think are shot today, based on your assumptions. I’m saying assumptions because I don’t believe anybody knows for sure. Would it be 1, 2, 3, 10, 15, 20 per thousand.

My “assumption” is 12/1000.

Yours?
Less than 12 I would say around 7.

Our school's FFA club ran a big buck contest for school age kids only ended around 1990 because of lack of big bucks. They judged it on width plus height plus points. You honestly needed a buck over 30" wide good height and extra points.
I believe the last really good year was either 1981 or 82, that year there was a buck that was 36" wide that took second. If I remember right that year there was 4 bucks over 30".
 
ok, I’ll bite. Just exactly how many bucks over 300”have been killed in the last 20 years? And how many bucks have been killed over 300” in all the years before 20 years ago?
Look it up. I’m not counting the ones before 2lumpy was born.
 
You’re the one that wants to know. I don’t really care.
If you didn’t care and didn’t want to educate me you would have never responded to my initial post. I don’t know everything and would like to learn from you. I’m just asking for those numbers you researched, shouldn’t be a heavy lift for you. Thanks in advance.
 
If you didn’t care and didn’t want to educate me you would have never responded to my initial post. I don’t know everything and would like to learn from you. I’m just asking for those numbers you researched, shouldn’t be a heavy lift for you. Thanks in advance.
You seem pretty capable of looking up the good old days of the 50’s vs now. It’s not that hard. You can go to Boone and Crockett to get the info. You want to learn go get it. Don’t expect everything to be handed to you.
 
You seem pretty capable of looking up the good old days of the 50’s vs now. It’s not that hard. You can go to Boone and Crockett to get the info. You want to learn go get it. Don’t expect everything to be handed to you.
Do you watch a lot of msnbc?
 
I too remember those harsh winters, DeLoss. I rummaged through my old records and found the deer regulations for 1989 forward. I wish I had kept them from earlier years as well! I thought I would attach a couple pics of the 1991 regulations. Apparently, WGFD could see the writing on the wall when comparing deer carrying capacity (especially winter range) to the numbers of deer. '92-'93 was the tipping point here in Wyoming as well. Deer numbers crashed after that winter, and have never fully recovered to what the herd numbers were before then. I remember attending a G&F meeting where they wanted to discuss( actually just tell us what they were going to do) the possibility of lowering the objective from 50k deer to 35k in the Wyoming Range herd many years later.

Additional doe/fawn tags numbered 8,000 for the Wyoming Range units 143, 144, and 135 (back then it was 135,136,137). That's not a misprint. 8,000 for those 3 units. Several thousand more doe/fawn tags were given out throughout the sw corner of the state as well. So...upwards of 13,000 or more D/F tags were given out in 1991 (although many of them may have never been bought). You can bet that most of those were sold for half price! Why would anyone pay full price when we all knew they were going on sale right before( and during) the hunt?I didn't check the 1990 regs, but there were plenty of D/F tags then as well as previous years. Sure would be nice if we had that many does around now!

If you include taking a whitetail deer, you could legally take up to 13 deer in Wyoming in 1991. 13.

G&F got a ton of flack from hunters after that season. Many deer died on the winter range due to lack of available forage and deep snow with cold temps. But mostly, there was just too many deer for the available habitat. Makes one wonder if the toll would have been higher if not for the liberal D/F tags. Who knows?

General season stayed open till Oct 31 in 1992. It had been closing Oct 25 in previous years, but G&F wanted more deer killed in '92. That last week got super cold. The migration started due to the sub-zero temps. The hunting was incredible! Deer were everywhere. My buddy and I both killed great bucks; mine taking 1st place in the local big buck contest.

That winter took a huge toll on the deer herds for sure. It's never been the same since...

View attachment 72246

View attachment 72247
I remember those years. It was crazy how many deer one would see in a day of hunting....
 
No i watch zero tv. I assume that is a channel. I'm guessing you watch a lot of the view?
You watch zero tv yet you know what the view is! Makes as much sense as your big buck claims over the past 20 years compared to all time before that. I know, you’re like a big buck cornered by a hungry mountain lion right now. You’re mind is spinning trying to figure out how to get out of this mess. Fight or flight. It’s ok, I do respect your opinions but you shouldn’t try to pass them off as facts sir.
 
You watch zero tv yet you know what the view is! Makes as much sense as your big buck claims over the past 20 years compared to all time before that. I know, you’re like a big buck cornered by a hungry mountain lion right now. You’re mind is spinning trying to figure out how to get out of this mess. Fight or flight. It’s ok, I do respect your opinions but you shouldn’t try to pass them off as facts sir.
Riiight. Of course I know what the view is! Fight or flight? Are you ok? This is an Internet forum. You really think anything gets accomplished here?
 
You watch zero tv yet you know what the view is! Makes as much sense as your big buck claims over the past 20 years compared to all time before that. I know, you’re like a big buck cornered by a hungry mountain lion right now. You’re mind is spinning trying to figure out how to get out of this mess. Fight or flight. It’s ok, I do respect your opinions but you shouldn’t try to pass them off as facts sir.
Your 150” buck in your avatar would be a contender in lumpys era of big bucks…
 
Your 150” buck in your avatar would be a contender in lumpys era of big bucks…
Well I looked it up like you suggested, and the stats prove you made a mistake. Before 20 years ago the recorded numbers were a little over 4 to 1 what they have been over the previous 20 years. Facts are a stubborn thing.
 
Well I looked it up like you suggested, and the stats prove you made a mistake. Before 20 years ago the recorded numbers were a little over 4 to 1 what they have been over the previous 20 years. Facts are a stubborn thing.
You’re counting all the ones since record keeping started? ????.
 
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:You’re counting all the ones since record keeping started?
:LOL::LOL::LOL::LOL: Nowhere does it say I counted anything. I looked up what you suggested and the numbers were right there, you probably just misread them.

Be careful, credibility is hard to get, easy to lose and extremely hard to get back.
 
Ummmm. I didn’t say it was a fact. That’s cool you think you remember it as a time of big bucks everywhere. But sadly that wasn’t the case. Big bucks have always been special because there’s never been a ton of them. And of course there were more big bucks because there were more deer. The older age class is still the smallest % of any herd. Once they get to 5 years old the odds start stacking against them. Hunting is just one factor.

Look at how many bucks over 300” have been killed in the last 20 years than rest of history. Spoiler alert more now than then.

So yeah keep showing me pics of the good old days with dink bucks in it and I’ll keep not being impressed. Thanks!
“And of course there were more big bucks because there were more deer.”

Exactly, which is precisely why I asked how many per thousand there are now……… if you’d answered my question, I would have asked you to estimate a number per thousand there were in the 1960/1980. If you hadn’t said, there were 3 to 5 times more than there are know, I would have said, “why so few big buck@. If there where 3 to 5 times more mule deer in the 1960/80, why wouldn’t there have been 3 to 5 times as many big bucks.

I believe there are as few as 20% of the mule deer today as there were in the 1970/80. You may think differently.

Regardless we both agree there are fewer over all mule deer today, and we both agree the big buck population is somewhat consistent with the ratio of big bucks to total population………. So that’s the only thing I’m saying. We have fewer today. I believe there were 5 times as many big bucks then. You don’t.


“”The older age class is still the smallest % of any herd. Once they get to 5 years old the odds start stacking against them. Hunting is just one factor.

Absolutely agree.

“Look at how many bucks over 300” have been killed in the last 20 years than rest of history. Spoiler alert more now than then.”

Anomalies are never part of any kind of analysis, then or know, other than to acknowledge they are in the population but not in sufficient numbers to move the needle either direction.

Maybe I could suggest a possible reason for “more now than then” of the 300 inchers. Could it be, hunters never hauled the antlers out, hunters let their yard dogs eat their antlers, hunters threw their antlers in the landfill. Many/most never had the slightest inclination to measure or show off these 300 inchers? All asumption, not facts.

I have a still few old friends, that haven’t died yet, that were 20 years old in 1960. They claim they, their fathers, uncles and brothers, cousins, etc. threw all their antlers way. They didn’t even take pictures of their deer heads until they started to realize they were seeing fewer and fewer big deer. I heard them say, many many timesabsolutely…….. “Man I wish I’d hung on to some of those anthers, from back then.”

However………regardless what I believe or you believe, we got what we got and we had what we had…….. it’s all just campfires and whiskey dreams now……… more whiskey than campfire too!!

Keep your powder dry SS!



“So yeah keep showing me pics of the good old days with dink bucks in it and I’ll keep not being impressed.”


Okay. ???
3F8F72DC-EEF3-4986-8586-47F6B17B5568.jpeg
 
Last edited:
Come on Lumpy, that one on the right with the 8” bases and 6” eye guards is just a dink!
Compared to those 300 inchers……it is. As I recall the other buck was 190” give or take an inch or two. I’ve got another picture of it sonewhere, I’ll try to dig out of the dungeon.
 
here’s two 300” bucks killed since 2000 and I know of at least 3 more:

2FB62741-9829-474D-BE73-97A64FA38D94.jpeg
25DF3B78-E3B6-4EDC-AEAF-20FF67D040F9.jpeg


Of course you add up all of time till now you’ll have more 300” bucks.

But lumpy if big bucks were everywhere back then let’s see your pile of big ones.

Looking forward to the pics!
 
:LOL: That’s not me. You see it’s not what you don’t know that gets you in trouble, it’s what you know for certain that’s just not true. It’s kind of like your made up big deer statistics! :ROFLMAO:
 

Click-a-Pic ... Details & Bigger Photos
Back
Top Bottom