Trail Cam ?

Bigwiffy said:
Haha the old fashioned way??? Cmon he didn't kill that buck this past year because he didn't have his rangefinder. I think Founder is a good hunter, works hard, gets away from guys, but far from the old fashioned way.
Click to expand...
And you know this how? ?‍♂️
 
Deerlove said:
We are all getting better and more efficient at killing things what are we willing to give up?
Click to expand...
Rather than whining and complaining any more on this board or other mediums, I just sent off a letter to all members of the wildlife board. I will paste it below in the hopes that it gets my overall feelings across on all of this and may spur some others to push for addressing the real issues with our decision makers:

Utah Wildlife Board Members,
I am sure you are all getting blasted with emails and other feedback following the Wildlife Board meeting on January 4th, so I am sorry to add to your pile, but I feel pretty strongly about sharing this with you and will try to make it short.

First off, I am not overly passionate about trail cameras. I only own 4 and don't use them too frequently, so this email is not about trail cams per se. When Troy Justensen, President of SFW, stood up and commented at the Wildlife Board meeting that we need to put the "hunt back into hunting", 4 of you Board Members felt that putting restrictions on trail cameras accomplishes that. I don't argue that there are issues with trail cameras, but how can the 4 who voted for the restrictions on cameras do so, while at the same time, not doing anything about issues such as rifle elk hunts in the middle of the rut? Hunting elk with a high powered/scoped rifle during the rut is like shooting fish in a barrel (I have hunted the Wasatch unit in 2009 with a rifle on an Expo tag, so I know firsthand how easy it is). Moving rifle hunts out of the rut and readjusting all of our State's hunts appropriately based on weapon type success would do more to put the "hunt into hunting" than any other action available to us (Consider Arizona's approach of higher # of elk tags for September archery hunts, very limited rifle and muzzleloader elk hunts in September/early October, and higher # of tags for late rifle and archery elk hunts in November)

Not to be overly political or dramatic, but addressing trail cams and ignoring issues like rifle rut hunts is akin to placing tremendous singular focus and resources on COVID-19 while our society is being gutted by much larger health issues such as obesity, diabetes, alcoholism, opioid addiction, and serious mental health problems. Trail cam restrictions may solve some social issues and MIGHT save a couple of the larger bucks and bulls, but you all know it won't move the needle much on putting the hunt back into hunting and increasing opportunity for sportsmen and women.

If you truly believe we need to put the "hunt back into hunting" then why don't we address the real issues that can move the needle on actually doing that, while at the same time increasing opportunity for sportsmen? Let's take a good hard look at hunter methods/technology and effectiveness as levers that can be adjusted to put the optimal # of hunters afield while also maintaining appropriate impact to the wildlife resource. Coupling this approach with getting more scientific and accurate on our herd counts for every species, and obtaining COMPREHENSIVE harvest statistics through mandatory harvest reporting for ALL tags would go a long way to truly allow us to put the "hunt back into hunting"!

I hope you will consider raising and addressing these points as you further look at technology and hunter effectiveness in the days, months and years to come. I would also welcome any feedback or thoughts you have on this topic.

Thank you for your service and time!
 
elkhunterUT said:
Rather than whining and complaining any more on this board or other mediums, I just sent off a letter to all members of the wildlife board. I will paste it below in the hopes that it gets my overall feelings across on all of this and may spur some others to push for addressing the real issues with our decision makers:

Utah Wildlife Board Members,
I am sure you are all getting blasted with emails and other feedback following the Wildlife Board meeting on January 4th, so I am sorry to add to your pile, but I feel pretty strongly about sharing this with you and will try to make it short.

First off, I am not overly passionate about trail cameras. I only own 4 and don't use them too frequently, so this email is not about trail cams per se. When Troy Justensen, President of SFW, stood up and commented at the Wildlife Board meeting that we need to put the "hunt back into hunting", 4 of you Board Members felt that putting restrictions on trail cameras accomplishes that. I don't argue that there are issues with trail cameras, but how can the 4 who voted for the restrictions on cameras do so, while at the same time, not doing anything about issues such as rifle elk hunts in the middle of the rut? Hunting elk with a high powered/scoped rifle during the rut is like shooting fish in a barrel (I have hunted the Wasatch unit in 2009 with a rifle on an Expo tag, so I know firsthand how easy it is). Moving rifle hunts out of the rut and readjusting all of our State's hunts appropriately based on weapon type success would do more to put the "hunt into hunting" than any other action available to us (Consider Arizona's approach of higher # of elk tags for September archery hunts, very limited rifle and muzzleloader elk hunts in September/early October, and higher # of tags for late rifle and archery elk hunts in November)

Not to be overly political or dramatic, but addressing trail cams and ignoring issues like rifle rut hunts is akin to placing tremendous singular focus and resources on COVID-19 while our society is being gutted by much larger health issues such as obesity, diabetes, alcoholism, opioid addiction, and serious mental health problems. Trail cam restrictions may solve some social issues and MIGHT save a couple of the larger bucks and bulls, but you all know it won't move the needle much on putting the hunt back into hunting and increasing opportunity for sportsmen and women.

If you truly believe we need to put the "hunt back into hunting" then why don't we address the real issues that can move the needle on actually doing that, while at the same time increasing opportunity for sportsmen? Let's take a good hard look at hunter methods/technology and effectiveness as levers that can be adjusted to put the optimal # of hunters afield while also maintaining appropriate impact to the wildlife resource. Coupling this approach with getting more scientific and accurate on our herd counts for every species, and obtaining COMPREHENSIVE harvest statistics through mandatory harvest reporting for ALL tags would go a long way to truly allow us to put the "hunt back into hunting"!

I hope you will consider raising and addressing these points as you further look at technology and hunter effectiveness in the days, months and years to come. I would also welcome any feedback or thoughts you have on this topic.

Thank you for your service and time!
Click to expand...

Excellent post.
I'll comment even though it was addressed to the board, of which I am not.

Many projects are currently being implemented to help the big game declines we are seeing throughout the state and also throughout the entire west.
Collaring studies are enormous sources of hands on information and we are seeing them every year now and on various units throughout.

Conservation projects galore going on like re-seeding burn scars, rebuilding damaged guzzlers and building new ones, high fences and game crossings in high traffic high mortality areas......it's all taking place and takes time, understanding and patience.
Oh......and rain and snow.....lots of it.
 
Just a couple questions. I’ve watched a lot of the wildlife board meetings, and just trying to understand some of these new regulations. Will people still be able to use trail cams all year long just to view wildlife? Lots of guys say they will “take care” of illegal cams. If this is the case how do you know if it’s illegal? Can coyote hunters still use thermal imaging devices to hunt coyotes? If I understand the last one correctly, in the case where archery hunters and youth rifle hunters overlap, the youth hunters carrying the rifles will be required to wear orange? The archery hunters will not be required to wear orange? Serious questions?
 
I just pulled a camera I have had up on a trail since the 15th of Oct. It had 1,184 pics. Only one pic of a shooter buck in all that time. I never hunted the spot. Instead I hunted other areas where shooters were present. To include the one pictured. It definitely helps me hunt areas with potential. Does it make a difference in the long run. I doubt it. Before I used cameras I would just hunt a spot and if I did not like what I was seeing I would move on.

2539CE0A-7C2C-4139-8D89-09193CBD08BF.jpeg
 
Vitalwave said:
I’d like them to actually admit that this is their goal. You know what else this approach supports… tag and law enforcement revenue… interesting how it comes down to money $$$. Another viable approach is to lower tag numbers because hunters are successful (which is a big reason people hunt in the first place is the chance to be successful). They won’t do that because they are used to the money and people would freak out if they raise tag cost to cover it. At a bare minimum they need to require mandatory harvest reporting so they even have the data to know what is going on.
Click to expand...


Awesome!!!


Every year I put this out

Post a video of the deer tag you get, then cut it up and throw it away. BEFORE THE SEASON.

Been doing this same challenge for 3 years. In 3 years, NOT ONE "cut tags" dude has responded.

Seems they want Other DUDES to sit home and "save the mule deer.

Let me know when you post that vid?
 
hossblur said:
Awesome!!!


Every year I put this out

Post a video of the deer tag you get, then cut it up and throw it away. BEFORE THE SEASON.

Been doing this same challenge for 3 years. In 3 years, NOT ONE "cut tags" dude has responded.

Seems they want Other DUDES to sit home and "save the mule deer.

Let me know when you post that vid?
Click to expand...
hossblur said:
Awesome!!!


Every year I put this out

Post a video of the deer tag you get, then cut it up and throw it away. BEFORE THE SEASON.

Been doing this same challenge for 3 years. In 3 years, NOT ONE "cut tags" dude has responded.

Seems they want Other DUDES to sit home and "save the mule deer.

Let me know when you post that vid?
Click to expand...
I don’t think that is what people mean in the spirit of cutting tags. It means they issue less tags and as a result go hunting deer in Utah a little less often so when they finally do the hunting is quality. What you need to see is fish and game film a video of them burning a stack of tags before they issue them.
 
elkhunterUT said:
Rather than whining and complaining any more on this board or other mediums, I just sent off a letter to all members of the wildlife board. I will paste it below in the hopes that it gets my overall feelings across on all of this and may spur some others to push for addressing the real issues with our decision makers:

Utah Wildlife Board Members,
I am sure you are all getting blasted with emails and other feedback following the Wildlife Board meeting on January 4th, so I am sorry to add to your pile, but I feel pretty strongly about sharing this with you and will try to make it short.

First off, I am not overly passionate about trail cameras. I only own 4 and don't use them too frequently, so this email is not about trail cams per se. When Troy Justensen, President of SFW, stood up and commented at the Wildlife Board meeting that we need to put the "hunt back into hunting", 4 of you Board Members felt that putting restrictions on trail cameras accomplishes that. I don't argue that there are issues with trail cameras, but how can the 4 who voted for the restrictions on cameras do so, while at the same time, not doing anything about issues such as rifle elk hunts in the middle of the rut? Hunting elk with a high powered/scoped rifle during the rut is like shooting fish in a barrel (I have hunted the Wasatch unit in 2009 with a rifle on an Expo tag, so I know firsthand how easy it is). Moving rifle hunts out of the rut and readjusting all of our State's hunts appropriately based on weapon type success would do more to put the "hunt into hunting" than any other action available to us (Consider Arizona's approach of higher # of elk tags for September archery hunts, very limited rifle and muzzleloader elk hunts in September/early October, and higher # of tags for late rifle and archery elk hunts in November)

Not to be overly political or dramatic, but addressing trail cams and ignoring issues like rifle rut hunts is akin to placing tremendous singular focus and resources on COVID-19 while our society is being gutted by much larger health issues such as obesity, diabetes, alcoholism, opioid addiction, and serious mental health problems. Trail cam restrictions may solve some social issues and MIGHT save a couple of the larger bucks and bulls, but you all know it won't move the needle much on putting the hunt back into hunting and increasing opportunity for sportsmen and women.

If you truly believe we need to put the "hunt back into hunting" then why don't we address the real issues that can move the needle on actually doing that, while at the same time increasing opportunity for sportsmen? Let's take a good hard look at hunter methods/technology and effectiveness as levers that can be adjusted to put the optimal # of hunters afield while also maintaining appropriate impact to the wildlife resource. Coupling this approach with getting more scientific and accurate on our herd counts for every species, and obtaining COMPREHENSIVE harvest statistics through mandatory harvest reporting for ALL tags would go a long way to truly allow us to put the "hunt back into hunting"!

I hope you will consider raising and addressing these points as you further look at technology and hunter effectiveness in the days, months and years to come. I would also welcome any feedback or thoughts you have on this topic.

Thank you for your service and time!
Click to expand...
Love it!
 
slamdunk said:
Thats a fair statement ?

Having said that, lack of government control has lead to this tech craze for hunting, right?

I mean, thank goodness for speed limits......
Click to expand...
I guess I’m my mind, if trail cameras give hunters too much of an edge, is ANY trail camera more of an edge than actual boots on the ground? It doesn’t make sense to me. You can scout all year long and it’s more impactful and legal. But cameras have a season and are less impactful. I guess the state is gonna let a few ruin it for everyone else.
I’m just not seeing the justification that they are using.
Now- I’m a guy who just started out a couple years ago running 2 cameras (internal storage) but 99% of intel is from boots on the ground. I’ve pulled my cameras before archery both years and I don’t archery hunt. The camera ban won’t effect my hunting. However, I still believe I can advocate for those who may not have the time to scout like I do.
To me, these changes are just gonna turn hunter against hunter. I hope I’m wrong
 
slamdunk said:
Excellent post.
I'll comment even though it was addressed to the board, of which I am not.

Many projects are currently being implemented to help the big game declines we are seeing throughout the state and also throughout the entire west.
Collaring studies are enormous sources of hands on information and we are seeing them every year now and on various units throughout.

Conservation projects galore going on like re-seeding burn scars, rebuilding damaged guzzlers and building new ones, high fences and game crossings in high traffic high mortality areas......it's all taking place and takes time, understanding and patience.
Oh......and rain and snow.....lots of it.
Click to expand...
So people are suppose to trust that our deer herds will rebound because of the projects? Utah has auctioned off more big game tags than every western state combined for nearly the past 3 decades! Who’s not being patient?
Yes I know there are other determining factors at play and we’ve herd the WB use every single one of them. I’m sure the LE units are getting the majority of the projects.
Please don’t think this is an attack on you. My point is this….it’s REALLY hard to have faith and trust right now.
 
Vitalwave said:
I don’t think that is what people mean in the spirit of cutting tags. It means they issue less tags and as a result go hunting deer in Utah a little less often so when they finally do the hunting is quality. What you need to see is fish and game film a video of them burning a stack of tags before they issue them.
Click to expand...


NO.

What it means is EXACTLY what I said. There is a group of guys who keep squealing about tag cuts. The DWR is funded by tag sales.

So, in order to not bankrupt the DWR, draw the tag so they get revenue.

THEN, because guys like yourself, believe fewer hunters is good, CUT UP YOUR tag, and stay home. Don't be a hypocrite, squeal about tag cuts, yet still hunt.


So, can we look forward to your video where you do the thing you call for?
 
Ultimag said:
Again wheres your proof? Or are you going on what your uncles best friends wifes sister in laws 5th cousin overheard while sitting in the bar?
2 describe a breeder animal?
Click to expand...

Outfitter websites.

Breeder animal: a buck or bull that normally does the most gene spreading due to their genetic superiority over the less dominate and aggressive traits of non-breeder bucks or bulls. See also "herd bull".

If you can't keep up, I'm done discussing this with you...
 
slamdunk said:
There are plenty of "breeder animals" for the amount of does we have, it's the lack thereof that's the problem.
Click to expand...

Any mature buck is capable of breeding. You kill too many with the best genes and eventually the weaker and less desirable ones takes over.

This just seems to be going right over the heads of some...
 
BillyBoB said:
I guess I’m my mind, if trail cameras give hunters too much of an edge, is ANY trail camera more of an edge than actual boots on the ground? It doesn’t make sense to me. You can scout all year long and it’s more impactful and legal. But cameras have a season and are less impactful. I guess the state is gonna let a few ruin it for everyone else.
I’m just not seeing the justification that they are using.
Now- I’m a guy who just started out a couple years ago running 2 cameras (internal storage) but 99% of intel is from boots on the ground. I’ve pulled my cameras before archery both years and I don’t archery hunt. The camera ban won’t effect my hunting. However, I still believe I can advocate for those who may not have the time to scout like I do.
To me, these changes are just gonna turn hunter against hunter. I hope I’m wrong
Click to expand...


So?

You scout, because you made it a priority. If others don't, that's on them.

And yes. 24/7 365 that cams give you is more efficient than any one of us, including guides, can scout.

No one spends money and the on tools that don't work.
 
roadrunner said:
Any mature buck is capable of breeding. You kill too many with the best genes and eventually the weaker and less desirable ones takes over.

This just seems to be going right over the heads of some...
Click to expand...

Define "best genes"

To growing the herd, it's the one that is the most disease resistant. Points and inches have nothing to do with that.

All those old 2 points, lived a long time.

But according to many, they aren't "quality"
 
Gonna SPLAIN It To You One More Time Hossy!

You're Right!

Well Kinda!

For The Um-Teenth F'N Time!

Yes!

A 2 Point that's Packing Good Genetics Ain't a Threat To The Heard doing some of the Breeding!

But Here's Where Life Gets Real!

Ain't Much Good Left Come Rut Time Anymore!

And These Little Bastards That Would Never be anything But JUNK even if they lived till age 8 that have came from 5+ Generations of Total JUNK Genetics that still have Milk on Their Lips Breeding Their Mothers Ain't doing This TARDville Deer Herd any Good!

Another Thing That Most TARDS either Don't Know or are Too GAWD-DAMNED Young to know is The Body Size on Most of the Herd are Little & A Smaller Animal is not near as Tough as a Big Strong Muley!

When People start Realizing & Accepting the Big Picture of 50+ Reasons Why Nothing is gonna Change!

Oh Wait a Minute!

Stick around!

It'll Get Worse!







hossblur said:
Define "best genes"

To growing the herd, it's the one that is the most disease resistant. Points and inches have nothing to do with that.

All those old 2 points, lived a long time.

But according to many, they aren't "quality"
Click to expand...
 
hossblur said:
NO.

What it means is EXACTLY what I said. There is a group of guys who keep squealing about tag cuts. The DWR is funded by tag sales.

So, in order to not bankrupt the DWR, draw the tag so they get revenue.

THEN, because guys like yourself, believe fewer hunters is good, CUT UP YOUR tag, and stay home. Don't be a hypocrite, squeal about tag cuts, yet still hunt.


So, can we look forward to your video where you do the thing you call for?
Click to expand...
Who said I am worried about the DNR running out of money? In fact, that is part of my point of why they are all for technology restrictions. Restricting tech benefits them the most. They can continue collecting tag/application revenue at a record pace if its harder to kill an animal and then also tack on some law enforcement revenue when people break all their NEW rules. I have nothing against the DNR per se but if the DNR grows so does their need for $$$ which a lot of comes from hunters. That puts them in a conflict of interest when maybe the right thing to do is limit tags. I'm not against challenging the DNR's use of revenue they already get.

Here is a proposition, Ill tear my tag up this year and film it but you have to make your own video. Your video is you cutting your rifle in half and leaving behind all the technology YOU USE at home (rifle, truck, optics, etc). Then go hunting in a loin clothe. Fashion yourself your weapon of choice whether it be a club or stick bow. I bet your video would be more popular.

I think both video ideas are dumb. I think we both know either extreme is not the answer. Hunters need to band together. I am not really that dissatisfied with how hunting is now. That is why I don't want things to change too much. The truth of all this is I just don't think we did our due diligence in deciding the cam laws. No data, no scientific method. They just pulled the trigger because they were afraid of the legislators doing it for them.
 
Vitalwave said:
Who said I am worried about the DNR running out of money? In fact, that is part of my point of why they are all for technology restrictions. Restricting tech benefits them the most. They can continue collecting tag/application revenue at a record pace if its harder to kill an animal and then also tack on some law enforcement revenue when people break all their NEW rules. I have nothing against the DNR per se but if the DNR grows so does their need for $$$ which a lot of comes from hunters. That puts them in a conflict of interest when maybe the right thing to do is limit tags. I'm not against challenging the DNR's use of revenue they already get.

Here is a proposition, Ill tear my tag up this year and film it but you have to make your own video. Your video is you cutting your rifle in half and leaving behind all the technology YOU USE at home (rifle, truck, optics, etc). Then go hunting in a loin clothe. Fashion yourself your weapon of choice whether it be a club or stick bow. I bet your video would be more popular.

I think both video ideas are dumb. I think we both know either extreme is not the answer. Hunters need to band together. I am not really that dissatisfied with how hunting is now. That is why I don't want things to change too much. The truth of all this is I just don't think we did our due diligence in deciding the cam laws. No data, no scientific method. They just pulled the trigger because they were afraid of the legislators doing it for them.
Click to expand...


Yet another dude who is pro cutting tags, JUST NOT HIS.


Posts like this are assinine.

It's better if the DWR sells tags but doesn't have deer killed?

Do they give out year end bonuses?

Don't call for tag cuts, if YOUR not going to lead by example.

You can have my trail cam, FLIR, and bait.

In fact, if you want my LR rifle, and long range muzzy they are yours too.

They will all fit in a ziplock baggie, and leave room for a sandwich
 

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