Pine Valley Mule Deer

desperatehills

desperatehills

Very Active Member
Messages
1,395
Ok I will admit it, I am bored at work and I want to talk about my up coming hunt. I know where I'm going (kind of). My friend archery hunted it last year and talked me into burning my 8 points on the early rifle tag. The hunt is only 5 days long so if we don't find much there we will just enjoy roaming the country. I have no expectations for this hunt except seeing new country with the chance of bringing home some deer meat. I wont shoot a forked horn and I wont hold out for the biggest buck on the mountain. So....what am I in for. A pumpkin patch circus or is this unit big enough everyone can spread out. The season starts on Wednesday and is only 5 days long so I expect most people will show up the weekend before and stay the whole season. Will the deer be in the same areas as the archery season? Im sure they will be harder to find once they are hard horned. Any tips would be appreciated.
 
Pine valley is a great unit, probably the best general unit in the state if you are after a 2 year old buck. Lots of 3?s and small 4?s running around, lots of them. You can drive the roads and shoot something better than a 2 point pretty easily. Early rifle the deer will be all over the mountain.
 
I have this same tag and hunted it last year as well. It was pretty much the only area I hunted until I moved from St. George in '06. I always prefer the muzzy hunt but hunt the early rifle now so I can concentrate on my kids hunts.
 
This sounds like it is going to be fun. I really enjoy going to new places. If there are deer around that will keep our hopes up and we can hold out for something a little better. Hopefully everyone is driving the roads and shooting forked horns. I'll be hiking and glassing. Not to the top of the highest mountain or to the bottom of the deepest canyon, but if I shoot a deer the muzzle blast isn't going to burn the hood of my pickup.
 
You will find hunters in the deeper canyons and the higher mountains. Deer are usually still in their summer patterns. There isn't many spots more than a mile or two from a road. There are a couple of non-motorized vehicle areas and I've hunted them in the past with good luck.

Fortunately there are a lot fewer tag numbers than the general rifle hunt. That being said there were still quite a few out there. It isn't too hard to find decent bucks.
 
I burned 5 points for the same tag this year. I archery hunted this unit a few years ago and essentially plan to go to the same place I did for the archery. I also may hike to the top and hunt up there since the one night I spent up there I was able to glass up a number of high quality bucks.

Should be fun! I just returned from my NV archery tag in 231 with a number of unsuccessful stalks but I plan to go back at least 1-2 more times before the season ends.
 
If you look in the record books it was a great arear for monster bucks, I'm sure you will find some good ones still in that area,

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
quite a few nice bucks come out of there every year and it's not too hard to find a 160"-170" buck if you are serious about the hunt.
 
Report from my friend bowhunting says there are a lot of small bucks around. No trouble finding 4 points but has only seen two worth stalking. Both bucks out smarted him
 
>John do you know who took
>that buck? I hope we
>can get photos of it.
>


It sounds like a few guides trucks where in the area. Maybe that's why it's on the down low. When I find out more I will let you know.
 
I have hunted it on muzzleloader hunt for several years. I'm dedicated and plan to hunt the early rifle this year if I don't tag out on muzzy hunt, just to see how it is and number of hunters.

Plan to put wife in for this hunt next year. Good five day hunt with lots of areas to wonder through looking for a good buck that she may get a chance at. Good time, low stress hunt with wife for 5-days and if she wishes she can even run into St. George to visit her parent's if that is her wishes.

Deer pattern should not change much. This hunt is only 6 days after muzzy hunt ends. I have heard that patterns do change some by regular rifle hunt.
 
>I have hunted it on muzzleloader
>hunt for several years. I'm
>dedicated and plan to hunt
>the early rifle this year
>if I don't tag out
>on muzzy hunt, just to
>see how it is and
>number of hunters.
>
>Plan to put wife in for
>this hunt next year. Good
>five day hunt with lots
>of areas to wonder through
>looking for a good buck
>that she may get a
>chance at. Good time, low
>stress hunt with wife for
>5-days and if she wishes
>she can even run into
>St. George to visit her
>parent's if that is her
>wishes.
>
>Deer pattern should not change much.
>This hunt is only 6
>days after muzzy hunt ends.
>I have heard that patterns
>do change some by regular
>rifle hunt.


Some of the deer do start moving off the top of Pine Valley during that week in mid Oct.
 
Sometimes they will move off with just a really cold rain, it doesn't need a snow for them to move.

"I have found if you go the extra mile it's Never crowded".
>[Font][Font color = "green"]Life member of
>the MM green signature club.[font/]
 
>>I have hunted it on muzzleloader
>>hunt for several years. I'm
>>dedicated and plan to hunt
>>the early rifle this year
>>if I don't tag out
>>on muzzy hunt, just to
>>see how it is and
>>number of hunters.
>>
>>Plan to put wife in for
>>this hunt next year. Good
>>five day hunt with lots
>>of areas to wonder through
>>looking for a good buck
>>that she may get a
>>chance at. Good time, low
>>stress hunt with wife for
>>5-days and if she wishes
>>she can even run into
>>St. George to visit her
>>parent's if that is her
>>wishes.
>>
>>Deer pattern should not change much.
>>This hunt is only 6
>>days after muzzy hunt ends.
>>I have heard that patterns
>>do change some by regular
>>rifle hunt.
>
>
>Some of the deer do start
>moving off the top of
>Pine Valley during that week
>in mid Oct.

The majority of the deer herd are never on the top of Pine Valley.
 
Well I am back from my hunt and I thought I would let everyone know how it went.

We had 3 tags to fill. I killed a decent 4 point opening morning and my two buddies ate tag soup. We found several bucks before the season. We had some strange weather and I believe the deer completely moved out of the area we were hunting. Scouting and during the season we never saw a buck from the road, only does. There were lots of camps and people out and about. I was worried about other hunters hunting the same deer we found. As it turned out we felt like we had the whole place to ourselves. I hiked up a draw and over a ridge. It took me a little over a hour to get where I wanted to be. This draw was over a mile long and 850 yards across and filled with perfect deer habitat. I shot my buck first thing and only heard a few distant rifle shots. I spent one day before the season and two during and never saw another hunter in this basin.

I know how the weather can be unpredictable in the mountains this time of year but what we experienced was nothing like the weather predictions we saw before we arrived. Scouting the highs were in the hi 60's and lows in the upper 30's, beautiful hunting weather. Opening morning had steady 20 mph winds that were strangely warm. It was 59 degrees at 4:30 in the morning. The temp slowly dropped all day. That night the winds felt like they were going to blow the trailer over. We took the morning off. That night glassing I thought I was going to freeze to death. We put our rain gear on the help cut the wind. On the third day we hiked up into the same valley I shot my buck in. I knew i was going to sweat so I took a fleece shirt to change into once I got on top. The shirt I took off froze stiff while glassing that morning. I picked it up to put in my pack and the sleeve stuck straight out! The next two mornings saw lows at 16 degrees but the winds died down and the afternoons were nice.

I would like to know how everyone else did. My buck is no monster but it was bigger than anything else we saw hanging. I am sure some bruisers were killed but we sure didn't see it. Was this weather very unusual and did it hurt the hunt? If you never left the road it seemed crowded. But a short hike up the mountain gave you all the real estate you could want. We spent the last two days hunting low and saw lots of deer but only a few small bucks.

29082pinevalleybuck.jpg
 
And no, I didn't gut shoot it. Well, I kinda did. It was quartering away hard. The bullet traveled through the lungs and stopped just in front of the opposite shoulder.
 
"""And no, I didn't gut shoot it. Well, I kinda did"""

LMAO!

Nice Job DH!








I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
>I would like to know how
>everyone else did. My buck
>is no monster but it
>was bigger than anything else
>we saw hanging. I am
>sure some bruisers were killed
>but we sure didn't see
>it. Was this weather very
>unusual and did it hurt
>the hunt? If you never
>left the road it seemed
>crowded. But a short hike
>up the mountain gave you
>all the real estate you
>could want. We spent the
>last two days hunting low
>and saw lots of deer
>but only a few small
>bucks.


I was near Pinto, camped in a tent, and the weather was crazy. I had scouted once in September and arrived on Monday. Saw a few nice bucks Tuesday morning but was unprepared for the pure ##### show that occurred Wednesday. I counted 19 hunters on the 4x4 road going by my camp on opening day. One group of 4 went by on a SXS an hour before dawn wednesday morning and parked right in the center of the prime deer habitat. I spent all day Wednesday afternoon and Thursday (in freezing cold wind) trying to determine where the bucks were being pushed to from the pressure. I figured it out thursday afternoon and went up early Friday and glassed the hillsides towards the draws I felt they were being pushed too. Saw a nice buck and took the 307 yard shot. Single .308 shot put him down and it took 2 hours to quarter and get him down to the flats and 3 hours to get him back to camp.

Not the biggest I saw but after 5 days and wild wind and freezing cold temps I was happy to have him. I was starting to think that the cold had pushed the deer out since I only saw two does after the few bucks Tuesday morning.

I was depressed to hear a few shots go off up in the canyon Tuesday night at dusk. I'm 99% sure based off where they came from that someone shot a deer the night before the hunt opened.

98344img20191011081817.jpg


57681img20191011081723.jpg
 
Ya!

I hear Them Kinda Shots as Well!

If they weren't Right before Dark You'd Say:Well it's just some JACK-ASS Plinking!

But You know what's going down!

F'N TARDS!

This State is Full of them!

Nice Job on the Buck!










I know so many people in so many places
They make allot of money but they got sad faces

It Ain't Easy being Me!:D:D:D
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-15-19 AT 10:19PM (MST)[p]I camped near Pinto with one of my triplets and my six year old boy. I think all the wind and the full moon had an effect on the deer. I saw fewer hunters and camps than last year. I never saw another hunter in the field the entire time. We hiked in quite far every day. I shot a decent 3x4 right before dark Friday night. I probably wouldn't have shot it where we were but my boys were excited and it was all about making memories. We were a little over 3 miles from the four wheelers and by the time we got back to the trailhead it was 4am. My boys Honda broke down and I had to tow it to camp. We got in at 6am. We went back the next afternoon to pack out the rest of the buck. We were having such a good time that we never started hiking out again until after dark.

Other nights we never got back to the wheelers until around 10pm. My six year old never blinked an eye or complained once. He matched us step for step the entire hunt and had a blast, he hunted with me last year but this was his first time that we shot one together. He was even determined to pack out some of the meat. This wasn't my biggest buck but it was definitely one of my best hunts.

It only takes a few days of hunting to determine which of your kids are keepers ;-)
 
Thanks for sharing success. We went high where we saw bucks during archery and found zero bucks. Hiked 15 miles that day. Next day we went low and found 50 does, but no bucks. Hopefully we will figure it out next year. I was surprised how many people we saw. Trailhead and 8 trucks and only heard 1 shot all day. All though we never saw another Hunter. Down low was a steady stream of SxS
 
Nice bucks Desparatehills & Nelsonccc congrats!

I had a NR tag and just showed up Tuesday morning before the hunt as I had tags in other states to try and fill and didn't have time to get over there to scout. Searched past forum posts and the recommended areas provided by the biologist on the Utah hunt planner for some locations to try.

Started at the Enterprise Reservoir and drove south. Only glassed up a few does all off Tuesday. Ended up camping off of Motoqua Road in a small tent about 4 miles from the NV state line. Hunted that area on the opener Wednesday and all of Thursday. Covering country in my truck to learn the roads/access points, etc. and stopping at vantage points to glass. Only saw a doe and a fawn all of Wednesday. Winds were insane as Desperatehills indicated which had me thinking that is why I wasn?t seeing deer. Talked to another couple of local hunters changing a flat by camp and the one hunter and his son had only seen one doe but the other hunter had seen 44 does and three small bucks. So I wasn?t the only one having problems finding deer. The hunter told me in December/January you would see 300 deer a day in this area and when he had his tag five years he was done in fifteen minutes, I was beginning to think the hunter who had seen the 44 does must have been in a different area.

I thought my tent poles were going to snap or my tent was going to be shredded but my $150 tent made it through Wednesday night unscathed. The fine red dust however got under my 3 season tent fly and through the fine mesh panels of my tent getting all over my tent floor, pad, and sleeping bag! It was quite a dusty mess. I couldn't handle the winds Thursday morning and just glassed from the truck. Thursday afternoon found me two hours from camp at the NV state line in an area that had burned in 2014. Figured with water, feed in the burn, and having seen only 3 people all day (one hunter having seen only one doe and another hunter with his wife having seen four does and three small bucks the night before that they were going back to look for) maybe I just had to get out and hike a little to find deer. Not many tracks in the burn whatsoever and only glassed up a single doe. I was beginning to think either this hunt (or most likely me) sucked but then I remembered from previous accounts this being one of the biggest deer herds in the state and arguably the best general deer hunt.

I decided to get up very early Friday morning and break camp and move farther north as maybe the deer hadn't migrated into my area yet. Although another cold windy morning I glassed up two different groups of does and finally a smalk buck over two miles away. It looked like the deer were all lining out to the southwest. I headed southwest in the afternoon and found another vantage point to glass from. Glassed up five does and drove over to that area for a closer look. Ended up finding over forty deer in that area bingo! Made a plan for Saturday morning and was into deer all morning including 3 small bucks but all over 500 yards away on a walk about. Sat in an area overlooking some springs the rest of the day but didn't see much and did a slow loop around them when the deer started popping up around five but only saw a small forked horn with milk still on his lips haha. Almost got cliffed out before dark but managed to fight my way out of the narrow cut after finding a way down into the canyon bottom.

Sunday morning I decided to hike out of camp and get high to glass. Glassed up two different bucks but both over 3/4 miles away. Marked their location as best I could and hiked back to camp, grabbed my truck and relocated closer to them. Hiked to the top of the mountain and sat in the shade of a large bush to get out of the sun. Not much happening until five again when a doe here and there started popping up. Sunset was 7:05 PM I believe and at about 6:45 my binos lock onto one of the bucks I had marked the location of earlier. Standing like a statue in the shadows of the burn behind a bush quartering away. If he took a few steps he would be gone. Couldn?t find him my scope. Frantic I finally got on him but rushed my shot. Went down and scoured the area until dark but no blood, hair, etc. a clean miss. Dejected, I hiked back to the truck.

In the end, I was very satisfied with the hunt. The country was beautiful and all the people I met were extremely friendly. The main roads were well maintained though some were narrow with few pullouts. I think a four-wheeler or UTV would definitely be useful just to get into more remote areas via the two tracks to narrow or rough to take a truck. There were a lot of camps but as Desperatehills mentioned, if you got out and hiked you saw very few hunters. The blaze orange hats and vests made hunters easy to spot. There were also a lot of people not hunting just out riding ATVs and UTVs in the area. It was funny to see the parade of vehicles heading east in the morning and then all the headlights coming off the mountains going back to camp once shooting time ended. Even though I was unsuccessful, I had a great time and hopefully some day I will be back!

Horniac
 
Congrats on a great deer. I'm headed there for my first time this weekend for the late rifle. Excited to see what I turn up
 
You know the orange didn't bother me one bit. I thought it would. I felt confident I had the whole canyon to myself. I could see a orange hat over a mile away. Nice to know where people are. Nothing worse than climbing a hill to find someone hiding there before you.
 
>Nice bucks Desparatehills & Nelsonccc congrats!
>
>
>I had a NR tag and
>just showed up Tuesday morning
>before the hunt as I
>had tags in other states
>to try and fill and
>didn't have time to get
>over there to scout. Searched
>past forum posts and
>the recommended areas provided by
>the biologist on the Utah
>hunt planner for some locations
>to try.
>
>Started at the Enterprise Reservoir and
>drove south. Only glassed up
>a few does all off
>Tuesday. Ended up camping off
>of Motoqua Road in a
>small tent about 4 miles
>from the NV state line.
>Hunted that area on the
>opener Wednesday and all of
>Thursday. Covering country in my
>truck to learn the roads/access
>points, etc. and stopping at
>vantage points to glass. Only
>saw a doe and a
>fawn all of Wednesday. Winds
>were insane as Desperatehills indicated
>which had me thinking that
>is why I wasn?t seeing
>deer. Talked to another couple
>of local hunters changing a
>flat by camp and the
>one hunter and his son
>had only seen one doe
>but the other hunter had
>seen 44 does and three
>small bucks. So I wasn?t
>the only one having problems
>finding deer. The hunter told
>me in December/January you would
>see 300 deer a day
>in this area and when
>he had his tag five
>years he was done in
>fifteen minutes, I
>was beginning to think the
>hunter who had seen the
>44 does must have been
>in a different area.
>
>I thought my tent poles
>were going to snap or
>my tent was going to
>be shredded but my $150
>tent made it through Wednesday
>night unscathed. The fine red
>dust however got under my
>3 season tent fly and
>through the fine mesh panels
>of my tent getting all
>over my tent floor, pad,
>and sleeping bag! It
>was quite a dusty mess.
> I couldn't handle the
>winds Thursday morning and just
>glassed from the truck. Thursday
>afternoon found me two hours
>from camp at the NV
>state line in an area
>that had burned in 2014.
>Figured with water, feed in
>the burn, and having seen
>only 3 people all day
>(one hunter having seen only
>one doe and another hunter
>with his wife having seen
>four does and three small
>bucks the night before that
>they were going back to
>look for) maybe I just
>had to get out and
>hike a little to find
>deer. Not many tracks in
>the burn whatsoever and only
>glassed up a single doe.
>I was beginning to think
>either this hunt (or most
>likely me) sucked but
>then I remembered from
>previous accounts this being one
>of the biggest deer herds
>in the state and arguably
>the best general deer hunt.
>
>
>I decided to get up very
>early Friday morning and break
>camp and move farther north
>as maybe the deer hadn't
>migrated into my area yet.
>Although another cold windy morning
>I glassed up two different
>groups of does and finally
>a smalk buck over two
>miles away. It looked like
>the deer were all lining
>out to the southwest. I
>headed southwest in the afternoon
>and found another vantage point
>to glass from. Glassed up
>five does and drove over
>to that area for a
>closer look. Ended up finding
>over forty deer in that
>area bingo! Made a
>plan for Saturday morning and
>was into deer all morning
>including 3 small bucks but
>all over 500 yards away
>on a walk about. Sat
>in an area overlooking some
>springs the rest of the
>day but didn't see much
>and did a slow loop
>around them when the deer
>started popping up around five
>but only saw a small
>forked horn with milk still
>on his lips haha. Almost
>got cliffed out before dark
>but managed to fight
>my way out of the
>narrow cut after finding a
>way down into the canyon
>bottom.
>
>Sunday morning I decided to hike
>out of camp and get
>high to glass. Glassed up
>two different bucks but
>both over 3/4 miles away.
>Marked their location as best
>I could and hiked back
>to camp, grabbed my truck
>and relocated closer to them.
>Hiked to the top of
>the mountain and sat in
>the shade of a large
>bush to get out of
>the sun. Not much happening
>until five again when
>a doe here and there
>started popping up. Sunset was
>7:05 PM I believe and
>at about 6:45 my binos
>lock onto one of the
>bucks I had marked the
>location of earlier. Standing like
>a statue in the shadows
>of the burn behind a
>bush quartering away. If he
>took a few steps he
>would be gone. Couldn?t
>find him my scope. Frantic
>I finally got on him
>but rushed my shot. Went
>down and scoured the area
>until dark but no blood,
>hair, etc. a clean miss.
>Dejected, I hiked back to
>the truck.
>
>In the end, I was very
>satisfied with the hunt. The
>country was beautiful and all
>the people I met were
>extremely friendly. The main roads
>were well maintained though some
>were narrow with few pullouts.
>I think a four-wheeler or
>UTV would definitely be useful
>just to get into more
>remote areas via the two
>tracks to narrow or rough
>to take a truck. There
>were a lot of camps
>but as Desperatehills mentioned, if
>you got out and hiked
>you saw very few hunters.
>The blaze orange
>hats and vests made hunters
>easy to spot. There were
>also a lot of people
>not hunting just out riding
>ATVs and UTVs in the
>area. It was funny to
>see the parade of vehicles
>heading east in the morning
>and then all the headlights
>coming off the mountains going
>back to camp once shooting
>time ended. Even though I
>was unsuccessful, I had a
>great time and hopefully some
>day I will be back!
>
>
>Horniac

I'm still sneezing and stuffed up from the dust. I lived in St. George for 23 years so I hunted that area a lot. Speaking of the Motoqua road, back in 1990 I bought my first new truck, a 1990 Ford Ranger. I picked it up in the morning and by 2pm a buddy and I were on the road to Alaska where we lived in a tent and worked all summer.

Fast forward to October and that deer season I was headed out hunting after work and I was in a hurry on the Motoqua road. I stopped and pulled my Winchester model 70 and Ruger Blackhawk out of their cases and put them on the seat. Less than five minutes later I had an oncoming truck and I moved over to give them room. My truck grabbed a soft shoulder and spun me head on into the ditch across the road where my truck pole vaulted end over end two complete times tearing the back of the cab off. I remember watching that rifle bounce down the road. I still have that gun and rebarreled it last year to 30-06 Ackley and killed a buck with it last Friday near Pinto. That rifle is the most sentimental to me as it was my first. Screw the truck, farmers Insurance paid well. :)

Eighteen year old kids do some stupid things ;-)
 
675120191015224641.jpg


2562020190928111405.jpg


This year was tough. Son's muzzy buck. Not largest, but best we could drum up this year. At least a larger mature buck. Great time with my 3 boys and friends for 9 days. Best of luck to the rifle hunters this weekend.
 
2nd rifle is pretty tough so far. Only seeing like 5-7 deer a day. Looks like they got beat up pretty good by the first rifle hunt.
 
>2nd rifle is pretty tough so
>far. Only seeing like 5-7
>deer a day. Looks like
>they got beat up pretty
>good by the first rifle
>hunt.

with 20% of the tags going to the early rifle, I don't think they got overhunted but good try on getting less people to hunt the 2nd rifle next year.
 
And ridge you came up with that assessment from.....? The unit and first hand knowledge....or? Personal knowledge of the posters intentions...or? Personal concern that someone might push to cut tags and you wouldn't get one every year...or?
 
>And ridge you came up with
>that assessment from.....? The
>unit and first hand knowledge....or?
> Personal knowledge of the
>posters intentions...or? Personal concern
>that someone might push to
>cut tags and you wouldn't
>get one every year...or?


73 always a dikhead!
 
LMAO! Just asking a couple questions, based off an assumption. Are we starting to get thin skinner around here now???
 
And just like that another unit will get over hyped and shot out... Its a traveling circus, a unit gets good buck numbers people start talking and bam 4 short years later it sucks and then they move onto the next one...

And I have never stepped foot onto Pine Valley so I'm not pissed about this post, just stating the obvious...

Go ahead and roast me now...
 
Tikka, I did take your theories into consideration when I started this post. The last thing I want to do is draw to much attention to someone's favorite deer unit. The issue will not be that the bucks get "shot out". It will be point creep. They are only giving out so many tags, maybe too many. This hunt is not a cake walk. I worked hard for the buck I shot and my buddies worked hard and came home empty handed.
 
>Tikka, I did take your theories
>into consideration when I started
>this post. The last thing
>I want to do is
>draw to much attention to
>someone's favorite deer unit. The
>issue will not be that
>the bucks get "shot out".
>It will be point creep.
>They are only giving out
>so many tags, maybe too
>many. This hunt is not
>a cake walk. I worked
>hard for the buck I
>shot and my buddies worked
>hard and came home empty
>handed.

Yeah, I would agree. If anything I think it's the opposite. We have what, like four people posting pictures that were successful. I was there for 7 days and busted ass. I saw countless people on atvs driving around but very very few shots. I was successful but I believe it was because I was able to hike and hunt away from the roads and use the atv pressure to my advantage. Judging from what I saw there were a lot of people around and if I had to guess I'd say there were just a handful of successful people in that area.
 
Did you guys take into consideration that attention and mature bucks attract top end hunters that take top end bucks?

Just throwing that out there...
 
>Did you guys take into consideration
>that attention and mature bucks
>attract top end hunters that
>take top end bucks?
>
>Just throwing that out there...


I am sure there is some truth to that. I think the top end hunters have things figured out and this thread might tilt a few towards Pine Valley but I don't think it will ruin the unit.

It hurts the local guy the most. The guy that use to pull out his driveway every year a put a little meat in his freezer will have to wait a few years between tags.

What was pine valley like before the general tags were divided into the 29 units? Is there more or less pressure now that tags for the area are restricted?

This is still a general hunt. It is crowded if you don't get away from the roads. I only saw one mature buck during the season and my two buddies saw Zero. Not the kind of review that makes hunters want to line up and wait years to go there.
 
I think sometimes I come off as being a pr!ck just so you know that's not my intent... I just have seen this happen on my favorite unit and its not fun seeing it go down hill in a hurry...

What once just 4 short years ago was almost void of other hunters in now a pumpkin patch void of mature deer...
 
What I have noticed tikka is right about over publicizing but it is generally about an area on a unit maybe a canyon or something like that, for several years you have this perticul canyon no one else hunts and it has good # of bucks and then the word gets out and it is a #$%^ show the next year. Units are controlled by tag # and most units in Utah you are doing good to receive a permit 2 out of 3 years with the exception of a few units in north western part of the state and
I do not see people posting how good the Box Elder unit is.
 
>I think sometimes I come off
>as being a pr!ck

I wasn't thinking that way at all. I thought your points were valid and relevant to the discussion.
 
Desperatehills,

Thanks for starting the thread and reporting back with the story of your hunt. Nothing that was said in this thread hasn't been said many times over the years, and it certainly isn't a secret. It is a big unit with a lot of rugged, nasty country. It gets hunted very hard by a lot of hunters every year, and for the most part, is similar to many general season units in Utah in terms of quality and quantity.
 
If someone is what is being labeled here a ?top end hunter,? then I'm assuming they already know about the potential and also reality of the Pine Valley unit.

Hot spotting does occur. I doubt this thread will matter much.

Congrats on your success! Hunting season came and went way too fast this year.
 
LAST EDITED ON Oct-29-19 AT 07:23AM (MST)[p]>I think sometimes I come off
>as being a pr!ck just
>so you know that's not
>my intent... I just have
>seen this happen on my
>favorite unit and its not
>fun seeing it go down
>hill in a hurry...
>
>What once just 4 short years
>ago was almost void of
>other hunters in now a
>pumpkin patch void of mature
>deer...


This is legit true. I've had the same experience! .
 
In 7 days I saw many small to medium sizes bucks. This is the biggest buck seen in 7 days. Left it on the hill. Im sure there are bigger ones out there. I feel it was a fun family type hunt with all the access for camping/trailering. Like anything getting a mature buck with all this traffic and pressure is scouting, hardwork, and luck.

75662pinevalley.jpg
 
When I say that "I left him on the hill" it usually means I missed.... :) nice pic of a good next year buck
 
desperatehills said:
Ok I will admit it, I am bored at work and I want to talk about my up coming hunt. I know where I'm going (kind of). My friend archery hunted it last year and talked me into burning my 8 points on the early rifle tag. The hunt is only 5 days long so if we don't find much there we will just enjoy roaming the country. I have no expectations for this hunt except seeing new country with the chance of bringing home some deer meat. I wont shoot a forked horn and I wont hold out for the biggest buck on the mountain. So....what am I in for. A pumpkin patch circus or is this unit big enough everyone can spread out. The season starts on Wednesday and is only 5 days long so I expect most people will show up the weekend before and stay the whole season. Will the deer be in the same areas as the archery season? Im sure they will be harder to find once they are hard horned. Any tips would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Sent you a PM Desperate Hills
 
fullthrottle said:
Pine valley is a great unit, probably the best general unit in the state if you are after a 2 year old buck. Lots of 3?s and small 4?s running around, lots of them. You can drive the roads and shoot something better than a 2 point pretty easily. Early rifle the deer will be all over the mountain.
Click to expand...
 
I know this thread is a couple years old. Things change, but after doing all I can think of last year and this year with no success, I'm doing more internet searching to try and find some other information that might help. I'm in my second year of dedicated hunter in the pine valley unit. I hunted a lot last year, a lot this year so far and haven't seen anything more than a barely forked buck. I hike as far as I can find at times but usually just end up at another road, or go over a ridge to find more hunters. I'm not sure what to do but am open to suggestions.
 
bsevans5 said:
I know this thread is a couple years old. Things change, but after doing all I can think of last year and this year with no success, I'm doing more internet searching to try and find some other information that might help. I'm in my second year of dedicated hunter in the pine valley unit. I hunted a lot last year, a lot this year so far and haven't seen anything more than a barely forked buck. I hike as far as I can find at times but usually just end up at another road, or go over a ridge to find more hunters. I'm not sure what to do but am open to suggestions.
Click to expand...
Stop worrying about getting as far from the road as possible or what other hunters are in the area and focus on what the deer like. I don't know anything about the pine valley unit, I've never set foot there, but if your not finding deer you must be in the wrong areas. Try doing something different then you usually do.
 
JakeH said:
Stop worrying about getting as far from the road as possible or what other hunters are in the area and focus on what the deer like. I don't know anything about the pine valley unit, I've never set foot there, but if your not finding deer you must be in the wrong areas. Try doing something different then you usually do.
Click to expand...
thanks for the response. I'm trying to learn what they like. I started hunting about 4-5 years ago so I'm trying to absorb as much learning as I can. I'm clearly doing something wrong at this point
 
I missed opening day of the muzzy. Went into an old honey hole Thursday. There was a little sign but not nearly as much as usual. Didn't see a deer on Thursday. Saw 15 on Friday only two of which were bucks. Saturday we counted 41 head and only three were bucks, little ones at that.
The weather is supposed to get rainy and colder tomorrow. I will be back out Wednesday and Thursday. Things should pick up a bit. Usually the deer have started their migration by now but I have seen zero sign of it this year which is surprising with the late start of the hunt. I assume this is due to poor feed and water. As we have adjusted accordingly we are seeing more deer but from what I've experienced this unit has definitely been in an obvious decline the last three years. Every hunter I've spoken to has confirmed the same. Much like the Beaver unit started going downhill about 5-6 years ago
.
 
I agree with deadibob, the unit has been and is on the decline. Spent a number of days from the middle til the end of the muzzy hunt towards the enterprise area, seen less bucks than normal and the ones we did find were all young deer. I’d say we seen an average of 6-8 two points/spikes and maybe 1-2 small three or four point bucks most days. Pretty sad seeing how it is right now. Most of the guys I know that hunted the muzzleloader shared similar results as well.
 
I've been saying it all year, the deer are doing much better from Fillmore north. Southern Utah is ugly as far as the deer herd goes.
 
Snakins10 said:
I agree with deadibob, the unit has been and is on the decline. Spent a number of days from the middle til the end of the muzzy hunt towards the enterprise area, seen less bucks than normal and the ones we did find were all young deer. I’d say we seen an average of 6-8 two points/spikes and maybe 1-2 small three or four point bucks most days. Pretty sad seeing how it is right now. Most of the guys I know that hunted the muzzleloader shared similar results as well.
Click to expand...
thanks for sharing your experience. I guess the good I can take away is maybe I'm not doing as terrible as I think at learning how to hunt. The bad is, it doesn't sound like I can do much differently to change my outcome.
 
Last year we saw lots of small bucks and a ton of does. We hunted about 7 miles south of the reservoir as the crow flies. Tons of road hunters and it helped to get off the roads a bit. We'd start seeing deer just as the road was not in sight. We both shot young deer and they were tasty. I put a post about our hunt last year in the Utah forum if you wanna check it out. Good luck!
 
well, just a follow up...i've been lots more places I've never hunted before just to try and cover more ground and following suggestions of people I've spoken to. Seen more does, an occasional forked young guy, but nothing more than a small two point with twigs for antlers. I let them go hoping they'll grow, but I know someone out there will shoot 'em just to fill a tag. As this year wraps up with just a few days of hunting once general rifle starts, I have to say I don't think I'll ever put in for dedicated hunter again. I don't know how much money I've wasted in gas, days and days away from the family in the last two years hunting every season only to end with an empty freezer and not even the glimpse of a decent buck. Maybe the tide will turn saturday morning, but I'm not feeling hopeful based on everything I've been through thus far. I sure hope others have had better luck.
 
Not good news. Was planning to take my daughter and son in law mule deer hunting in Pine Valley the next few years. Guess I will start researching somewhere else.
 
LIK2HNT said:
Not good news. Was planning to take my daughter and son in law mule deer hunting in Pine Valley the next few years. Guess I will start researching somewhere else.
Click to expand...
I wish I had better news. I'm not saying there aren't decent bucks out there. I heard a few people said they saw a small 4 or medium 3 point from a long distance in the Pine Valley Wilderness area. I've had others tell me there are small 3 and 4 point bucks near new castle, at certain times near the fields in new harmony and up on bumblebee. I've also heard rumored bucks in the northwest corner of the unit, but its real rocky, tough country and you have to spend a week out there and hope you might see one. I gave bumblebee a try and had I been able to get up there more, maybe I would have found something. Overall though, the numbers are not like they were in years past. I'm frequently told of what I consider "fairy tales" of the bucks you used to be able to find 5-6+ years ago. Lots of people tell me in the last 4-5 years things have gone down hill. Way too many tags. Mismanaged deer numbers. Maybe it will turn around at some point. I've thought about putting in for a unit further up the state, but don't know any other unit and I live in St. George, so its nice to be where I hunt. Makes it easier to get out, but I guess if there isn't much there, it doesn't matter how many times I get out. Hasn't helped as of yet. Last year I was out close to 30 days. This year I'm on track to match that but have covered even more area than before.
 
I hunted Pine Valley last year with my Dad. Shot a young buck and it's probably some of the best tasting venison I have had in 30 years. I'll leave some big guys for the antler hunters. You are welcome. :) All joking aside, I was also disappointed with the numbers of small bucks we saw. Lots of spike forks and nothing over 16 inches or so. That unit supposedly holds some good bucks....just like any other unit, you have to have a bit of luck to find them if it is not the right time of year.
 
bsevans5 said:
I wish I had better news. I'm not saying there aren't decent bucks out there. I heard a few people said they saw a small 4 or medium 3 point from a long distance in the Pine Valley Wilderness area. I've had others tell me there are small 3 and 4 point bucks near new castle, at certain times near the fields in new harmony and up on bumblebee. I've also heard rumored bucks in the northwest corner of the unit, but its real rocky, tough country and you have to spend a week out there and hope you might see one. I gave bumblebee a try and had I been able to get up there more, maybe I would have found something. Overall though, the numbers are not like they were in years past. I'm frequently told of what I consider "fairy tales" of the bucks you used to be able to find 5-6+ years ago. Lots of people tell me in the last 4-5 years things have gone down hill. Way too many tags. Mismanaged deer numbers. Maybe it will turn around at some point. I've thought about putting in for a unit further up the state, but don't know any other unit and I live in St. George, so its nice to be where I hunt. Makes it easier to get out, but I guess if there isn't much there, it doesn't matter how many times I get out. Hasn't helped as of yet. Last year I was out close to 30 days. This year I'm on track to match that but have covered even more area than before.
Click to expand...
You are spot on with this. Drew a tag in 2015 and saw a few small 4 points about 20 inches wide. Myself and 2 boy have drawn 3 times since and it has really turned ugly. My boy drew this year and we hunted every day on the early rifle. We covered every know area that holds deer on this unit only to see 1 small 3 point and 2 points total. I believe they give out 800 on the early rifle and 2400 on the regular rifle. In my opinion, they should not give out more than 50 tags on this unit. That does not even take into account archery, muzzle-loader and late muzzleloader tags.
 
Ponderosa said:
You are spot on with this. Drew a tag in 2015 and saw a few small 4 points about 20 inches wide. Myself and 2 boy have drawn 3 times since and it has really turned ugly. My boy drew this year and we hunted every day on the early rifle. We covered every know area that holds deer on this unit only to see 1 small 3 point and 2 points total. I believe they give out 800 on the early rifle and 2400 on the regular rifle. In my opinion, they should not give out more than 50 tags on this unit. That does not even take into account archery, muzzle-loader and late muzzleloader tags.
Click to expand...
I've talked to quite a few guys who said they quit hunting 4-5 years ago because number of deer dropped real bad and the hunters were everywhere. They talked about spending lots of time hauling salt blocks, building blinds far from roads just to have some yahoo come bombing up the mountain on a 4-wheeler blazing his own trail and ruining months of work. I started hunting about 4-5 years ago and seems like I came on the scene at the wrong time. At this point I can share the sentiment...if I had hunted my whole life, I might stop general season hunting too. I just started, so I'm out there working hard, but seems like its for nothing. I will start researching nearby units for future years and just put in for single seasons. No more dedicated for me.
 
The Pine Valley unit is definitely going down fast. I’ve hunted it for a long time and I thought last year was the worst I’ve seen but it is even worse this year. I know the drought hasn’t helped anything but I personally think the limited entry late muzzleloader has contributed to the decline. If a decent buck showed up on the winter range it was killed the next year on the late muzzy hunt and now a 180” buck is hard to find on the winter range. With the top 10-20 older age class bucks killed each year for the last 5 years on this hunt it’s no wonder there’s nothing left.
 
Hunted Pine Valley unit for a dozen years and the last couple have been real tough. Agree that the extra rifle and late muzzy hunts are hurting it. Only seen a dozen and a half bucks in 7- days of hunting. Son tagged a 4x4, which was best buck we seen
Usally see several this size and a couple better. Hope things turn around!!!

20211002_134007.jpg
 
Vanilla said:
The early rifle is not an “extra” rifle, right? Didn’t all those tags come from the group real rifle and just split the dates to spread hunters out a little bit? It didn’t add extra tags, right?
Click to expand...
You are correct with tag numbers. It is splitting the tags from original rifle season between the two seasons, but hunting the deer alot more continously. One hunt right after another. Good for the hunter with less numbers, but bad for the deer. I do believe the extra 19 late muzzy tags hurt the mature buck numbers big time and the late archery season hurts the deer numbers probably more then the early rifle season does.
 
It’s tough because the DWR hears constant gripes about over-crowding on particular units, so they do something to address it, and now it’s a problem for the deer. It’s s can’t win situation for so many.

All of those things can be true, though. It’s finding the sweet spot somewhere in there that is really difficult. I honestly do not believe a short 5-day season after the archery and muzzleloader hunts and before the main rifle hunt does anything measurable to harm the deer herd as far as pressure goes. That’s just my opinion, and I have data or evidence to back it up.

I can certainly see how late season LE tags and extended archery tags added on top of what we’re doing are hurting the top end crop from surviving, however.

We hunted the early rifle Pine Valley season. We saw A LOT of deer. A decent number of small bucks. I saw one that looked like a very nice deer, but only had eyes on him for 2-3 seconds, he disappeared and we never could find him again. My nephew got his first buck ever, a small 3 point. It was fun to learn a new area.
 
rmanwill said:
Hunted Pine Valley unit for a dozen years and the last couple have been real tough. Agree that the extra rifle and late muzzy hunts are hurting it. Only seen a dozen and a half bucks in 7- days of hunting. Son tagged a 4x4, which was best buck we seen
Usally see several this size and a couple better. Hope things turn around!!!

View attachment 55853
Click to expand...
You lucked out. that is bigger than anything I've seen all season and bigger than what most people I've talked to have seen. I've come across hundreds and hundreds of does. a few small 2 points and thats it.
 
coltaut said:
The Pine Valley unit is definitely going down fast. I’ve hunted it for a long time and I thought last year was the worst I’ve seen but it is even worse this year. I know the drought hasn’t helped anything but I personally think the limited entry late muzzleloader has contributed to the decline. If a decent buck showed up on the winter range it was killed the next year on the late muzzy hunt and now a 180” buck is hard to find on the winter range. With the top 10-20 older age class bucks killed each year for the last 5 years on this hunt it’s no wonder there’s nothing left.
Click to expand...
Even into the mid '90s the muzzleloader hunt was in November and there were unlimited tags then. I used to hunt that every year down on Utah hill when the deer were rutting hard. The only thing that sucked about that hunt was the very short amount of daylight. In short there were probably 5-10 times the amount of late season hunters back then, granted there were more restrictions (1x scopes) back then but there were still many more large late season deer killed in those days.

A few late muzzy tags is not the cause for the huge decrease on Pine Valley, there are several bigger issues causing the decline than those muzzleloader hunters are. The DWR claims the three year average post hunt buck/doe ratio from 2016-2018 was over 24 bucks per hundred does. I personally think that wasn't very far off from reality. I personally have seen a big drop off of bucks in 2019, 2020 and this year 2021 and I have only heard the same thing from everyone I know who spends time on that unit every year.

I counted every deer I saw this year and have talked to lots of other hunters about the deer numbers they were seeing and I believe that before the muzzy and rifle hunts this year the buck doe ratio was closer to 15 bucks per does. That is a huge decrease in a short period of time and mirrors exactly what we saw on the Beaver unit only a couple years previously.

The only good thing that I saw this year is that there seemed to be a decent amount of yearling bucks so maybe there will be some that make it a couple years. On the down side the unit has a very small amount of any older age class bucks left.

This state has seen many highs and lows of deer numbers in the last 100 years and at one time it was bad enough to completely close hunting for mule deer. Let's just hope it can get turned around soon but realistically the good old days are gone forever.
 
I've only hunted it one year but I have a theory. I think through 2016 to 2018 from everything I heard there were quite a few bucks on the unit. I think because of that they increased the amount of tags. The increase in tags along with drought conditions, predators, etc hit the bucks harder than anyone expected. I think they'll get it turned around but it will take more tag cuts than expected and some help from mother nature. I have talked to the biologist personally a number of times. I know that he is doing what he thinks is best and has tons of boots on the ground experience, I personally trust him. When he does his deer counts this year, if he finds that the buck to doe ratio has suffered and dropped below obj. I know he will make the right decision to do what's best for the herd. I would expect more tag cuts for a handful of years until the buck to doe ratio gets up where it was again and then start slightly increasing.
 
deadibob said:
Even into the mid '90s the muzzleloader hunt was in November and there were unlimited tags then. I used to hunt that every year down on Utah hill when the deer were rutting hard. The only thing that sucked about that hunt was the very short amount of daylight. In short there were probably 5-10 times the amount of late season hunters back then, granted there were more restrictions (1x scopes) back then but there were still many more large late season deer killed in those days.

A few late muzzy tags is not the cause for the huge decrease on Pine Valley, there are several bigger issues causing the decline than those muzzleloader hunters are. The DWR claims the three year average post hunt buck/doe ratio from 2016-2018 was over 24 bucks per hundred does. I personally think that wasn't very far off from reality. I personally have seen a big drop off of bucks in 2019, 2020 and this year 2021 and I have only heard the same thing from everyone I know who spends time on that unit every year.

I counted every deer I saw this year and have talked to lots of other hunters about the deer numbers they were seeing and I believe that before the muzzy and rifle hunts this year the buck doe ratio was closer to 15 bucks per does. That is a huge decrease in a short period of time and mirrors exactly what we saw on the Beaver unit only a couple years previously.

The only good thing that I saw this year is that there seemed to be a decent amount of yearling bucks so maybe there will be some that make it a couple years. On the down side the unit has a very small amount of any older age class bucks left.

This state has seen many highs and lows of deer numbers in the last 100 years and at one time it was bad enough to completely close hunting for mule deer. Let's just hope it can get turned around soon but realistically the good old days
Click to expand...
When I said the decline was due partly to the late muzzleloader hunt I was thinking about the age class of deer. Like you mentioned, the older age class bucks are really in decline. The few that make it through the main hunts are usually taken during the late muzzleloader hunt. I wish it was only a few taken each year but last year alone there were 19 tags issued. I do agree it’s not the only reason for the decline but it’s one we have seen in the areas where we keep tabs on the winter range. Like you, I’m hopeful the young bucks will survive and make it a few years. I fear that more and more young ones will be killed every year since people feel like they won’t see anything else and don’t want to go home empty handed.
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
I've only hunted it one year but I have a theory. I think through 2016 to 2018 from everything I heard there were quite a few bucks on the unit. I think because of that they increased the amount of tags. The increase in tags along with drought conditions, predators, etc hit the bucks harder than anyone expected. I think they'll get it turned around but it will take more tag cuts than expected and some help from mother nature. I have talked to the biologist personally a number of times. I know that he is doing what he thinks is best and has tons of boots on the ground experience, I personally trust him. When he does his deer counts this year, if he finds that the buck to doe ratio has suffered and dropped below obj. I know he will make the right decision to do what's best for the herd. I would expect more tag cuts for a handful of years until the buck to doe ratio gets up where it was again and then start slightly increasing.
Click to expand...
Classic utard. Blame predators ??
 
Cooper said:
Yea all predators just eat mice and rabbits, everyone knows that ?‍♂️
Click to expand...
Hey Cooper, just best to ignore SS when he's behaving like this. You have to understand, at times he has nothing better to do and so just tries to get under people's skin. He's really not such a bad guy. He's pretty clever and I actually like him. I'm sure he'll post something in response to this and then watch, I'll just ignore him, unless his response is a mature one ?.
 
schoolhousegrizz said:
Hey Cooper, just best to ignore SS when he's behaving like this. You have to understand, at times he has nothing better to do and so just tries to get under people's skin. He's really not such a bad guy. He's pretty clever and I actually like him. I'm sure he'll post something in response to this and then watch, I'll just ignore him, unless his response is a mature one ?.
Click to expand...
I like to give him a little crap, he’s not so bad, he’s full of shot but he finds some cool moose sheds in the cache unit or was it somewhere else, maybe it was Monte Cristo
 
coltaut said:
When I said the decline was due partly to the late muzzleloader hunt I was thinking about the age class of deer. Like you mentioned, the older age class bucks are really in decline. The few that make it through the main hunts are usually taken during the late muzzleloader hunt. I wish it was only a few taken each year but last year alone there were 19 tags issued. I do agree it’s not the only reason for the decline but it’s one we have seen in the areas where we keep tabs on the winter range. Like you, I’m hopeful the young bucks will survive and make it a few years. I fear that more and more young ones will be killed every year since people feel like they won’t see anything else and don’t want to go home empty handed.
Click to expand...
I've passed on a lot of tiny 2 points in hopes they'll get a chance to grow. I hate tag soup, but care about the future. I don't know how many I've let go just to hear shots not too far after. Its sad.
 
bsevans5 said:
I've passed on a lot of tiny 2 points in hopes they'll get a chance to grow. I hate tag soup, but care about the future. I don't know how many I've let go just to hear shots not too far after. Its sad.
Click to expand...
Lots of guys out there in 60k trucks or 30k sxs that are starving and they need the 15 lbs of meat that a yearling or two year old deer could provide them. Poor guys are just trying to put meat on the table
 
I also pass up on 2 points now and then, but man, that first 2 point. Buck fever. Good memories.

Any one that has a tag and wants to shoot a legal buck, congratulations. I am glad you are out hunting and providing your own food. Trophy is the experience, the meat, and the memories. Size of the rack - meh.
 

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