Bighorn Sheep draw
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"NEW FOR 2021 • Nonresident Moose and Bighorn Sheep Applicants – When submitting applications nonresident applicants will have to elect to be awarded a preference point if unsuccessful in the draw." Think I read this incorrectly before. Must elect to have the point awarded during the draw if unsuccessful. What is your take. Thanks
nripepi
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Wow, does this mean you can apply and not be charged the $150? That is great news for non-residents and non-res youth without many points if it is saying what I think it is. I write comments to WY G&F every year and I have recommended this as I felt it was unfair to those hoping for a random tag. Sure it will decrease the odds, but those building points already have an advantage of time on their side.
nripepi
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Previously they forced you to buy the preference point to apply, so if it is new, I am guessing it is going back to how it used to be where you could choose or not to get the preference point.
Horniac
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Correct on not having to buy a NR preference point to apply. I'm not sure what WYG&F was thinking but why would any NR with less than like 15 or so points opt to buy a worthless point for $153 if you can enter the random draw without having to buy it? Seems like a no brainer to me...
Horniac
Horniac
Horniac
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No hunting license purchase required to apply in WY though you have to front the $2,335 tag fee plus a 2.5% non-refundable credit card fee of $58.38. The $2,335 also includes a non-refundable $15 application fee...
Horniac
nripepi
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Maybe someone figured out that it might be illegal or at the very least not "the right thing to do" to require someone to buy a preference point in order to apply. Colorado made that change recently as well. Does any other state or species require you to buy a preference point to apply? Sure others make you buy a license and Wyoming can jump on that bandwagon if they want to. I recommended this for the youth out there so they could be in the game without paying for worthless very expensive points.
BradA
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Thank you for this information, may consider it depending on funds and hope for the random tag draw to come my way highly unlikely but you gotta play to win.
highfastflyer
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It all depends upon your own situation. A 30 year old sitting on 15 points and keeps applying regularly may be the hunter who uses those points in 30 years from now. If they can find a pneumonia vaccine and get the lamb recruitment back to historical levels we may again see a boom in sheep populations. You can’t play if you don’t pay. It all just depends upon each person’s perspective. Keep pursuing an opportunity while you can.
LivingTheDream
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@highfastflyer this is a great point. I know they (I think it is the State of SD) are actively studying a possible vaccine to pneumonia. I think we are gaining a much better understanding of how it impacts herds and how to transplant/recover populations. I think there is a lot of hope in this area.
highfastflyer
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If you really want to go sheep hunting try Alaska or Canada.
Horniac
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Yes very true on an applicant‘s personal situation.
Using your example of a 30 year old sitting on 15 points under the current NR tag allocation of approximately 45 sheep tags per year it will take roughly 46 years to clear out those NR’s above him with 16 or more points and another 6 years possibly to draw once they get down to the 15 point level. The 30 year old will be 76 to 82 years of age when he draws the tag all things being equal.
If the NR quota was cut to 10% say 20 NR tags per year the 30 year old would now draw out at when he was between the age of 105 and 118.
My point being that WY providing the new opt out for the expensive $153 preference point makes a lot of sense for lower point applicants to utilize in conjunction with applying for a random tag if they ever want to sheep hunt in WY. Obviously if you are one of those NR applicants sitting near the top of the preference point pyramid you would continue to buy points until you drew out...
Horniac
BuzzH
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I think you're being optimistic, but hope I'm wrong. With all the problems with sheep, is it realistic to believe that sheep tags will do anything but decline in number over the next 20-30 years?
Split the tags between a random pool and a preference pool 50-50 half going to the high preference holders, the other "random" part of the draw taking points into account on a bonus point type draw. In that case, point holders still have better odds, top point holders still get half of the tags, and it makes points worth buying as well as giving a first time applicant a chance.
The current problem is that by the time a person draws, they're so old the hunt isn't even fun. Bunch of old blue-hairs hiring outfitters to shoot rams across canyons with the outfitters long range rifles is not "sheep hunting"...
Split the tags between a random pool and a preference pool 50-50 half going to the high preference holders, the other "random" part of the draw taking points into account on a bonus point type draw. In that case, point holders still have better odds, top point holders still get half of the tags, and it makes points worth buying as well as giving a first time applicant a chance.
The current problem is that by the time a person draws, they're so old the hunt isn't even fun. Bunch of old blue-hairs hiring outfitters to shoot rams across canyons with the outfitters long range rifles is not "sheep hunting"...
SS!
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What yardage does it no longer become sheep hunting? Is it limited to only shooting? What about the guys shooting rams from pickups at 200 yards? Or the guy who walks in by hoback junction and kills one within sight of the road?
BuzzH
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All are up to you to answer...
There's killing rams and hunting rams, and the experiences are mutually exclusive.
SS!
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Agreed, and I agree with you about the long range shooting part of it.
hell I flew one time, walked 8 or 9 miles from the strip across a couple glaciers and shot a ram. It felt like cheating compared to most my sheep hunts.
highfastflyer
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You must be a pessimistic glass is always half empty person. At least under your scenario the old codger gets to go bag a sheep from his wheelchair LOL. The ongoing research paints a more optimistic future. There is ongoing research on how to vaccinate or use salt licks laced with immune system cultures which could protect wild sheep herds from pneumonia outbreaks. Restocking vaccinated sheep and proving they are NOT potential carriers of pneumonia causing bacteria or viruses is also being researched. If Wyoming could get a trustworthy vaccination or restocking program in place it might be able to return to the heyday of 400-500 sheep. Then like my grandfather did in the 1960s he drew 3 sheep Tags in the 1960s during a one decade stretch.
A Multivalent Mannheimia-Bibersteinia Vaccine Protects Bighorn Sheep against Mannheimia haemolytica Challenge | Clinical and Vaccine Immunology
Bighorn sheep (BHS) are more susceptible than domestic sheep (DS) to Mannheimia haemolytica pneumonia. Although both species carry M. haemolytica as a commensal bacterium in the nasopharynx, DS carry mostly leukotoxin (Lkt)-positive strains while ...
cvi.asm.org
Im a non-resident, im 53 and have 21 points. My preference is DIY. There are several units i have a decent draw chance at but those have wilderness. My question is would the WM (wildlife manager) for each unit be my best resource to discuss sheep #'s outside the wilderness? Any other resources you might know of? Thanks.
highfastflyer
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The regional Biologist along with the Game wardens will give you that information. I can tell you as a resident I took a sheep in a large wilderness dominated area but the sheep just happened to be just outside of the wilderness area the day I found a band of 5 rams and took the largest of the group after a long climb and stalk. Have OnX with you and if you get serious about any particular area go every year and scout it with a fishing pole or go grouse hunting up there and you can legally enter and fish/hunt in the Wilderness areas for upland small game. Joining your local chapter of the Sheep foundation can give you contacts and enormous amounts of wealth of information about some of those units. Good luck.
hornkiller
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I will come walk 8 or 9 miles and kill a ram just say when ss! im still trying for my 1st sheep tag.
SS!
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Sadly like the wilderness law everyone complains about we have a law up here that states if you are foolish enough to live in the lower 49 states you must go guided for sheep. If you do have family up here you can go unguided. I got 5 sisters, 4 of them are single and I bet 3 out of the 4 are crazy enough to get married so If you really want to go sheep hunting let me know. @DoubleDropMuley you think Judi and @hornkiller could make it work? Hell hornkiller Judi has a few horses that you could use for hunting down there. The question is how BADLY do you want a sheep? ???
hornkiller
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Lmmfao how long do you have to be married? do you have any pics?
DoubleDropMuley
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@Slightlysober Im thinking a Match Made in Heavin ? And with horses know that’s a steal ??????
nfh
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Hey guys don't forget me. I am happily married but I am willing to be a polygamist and get a 2nd wife.. What do you say SS?
And doubledrop I suggest you stay away from the horses. I heard what happens in your county
And SS so if Alaska requires you be with a outfitter how do these DIY guys do it?? IF a outfitter flies them in and leaves them is that considered using a outfitter??
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SS!
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I’m not sure if there’s a requirement for length of marriage. Reach out to ADFG and I’m sure my sister and you could work something out. Not sure how the taxes would work but that’s none of my business.
I can’t post pics because I don’t want to get banned again...
SS!
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They are either residents or have family up here. I believe there is an exception for military if you were stationed up here.
If you use an outfitter to fly you in he either has to have a guide with you or you have family with you.
I could turn this into a business. Sheep hunts are over 20K. You guys could marry a women up here, kick her some $$$ and go get a sheep. I’d just take a finders fee. ????
nfh
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I know 2 guys that come up every other year and get some Dall sheep. Not sure if they have family or what
hornkiller
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I will take the least crazy youngest best looking one ss preferably the richest one am I asking too much? You can pm pictures!
SS!
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It says file size too large. She’s a big one no doubt. She’s not rich monetary wise but if you need to figure out a way to take advantage of a govt or state program she’s priceless!
nfh
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I will check their facebook and see what year they get them.
I looked closer 2018 and 2019 they hunted Alaska. 2018 he got a ram and 2019 he was with someone but also posed with the sheep which threw me off. I had to go through a billion pictures to come up with that summary.
Hopefully in 10 years I can also experience that hunt
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MaineFlatlander
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MaineFlatlander
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NR at 57. Did my hunt DIY outside of wilderness. It can be done if you are comfortable in the mountains. Feel free to drop me a message
littlebighorn
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Whoa there Horny!
You told me you have a wife and kiddos!
I think you'd best stick with drawing a resident Rocky! Alimony and child support would cost you way more than a sheep tag!
nfh
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Doubledrop said he would cover expenses.
SS!
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How dare you @hornkiller solicit my sisters hand in marriage when you already have a wife and a couple democrats*!!!! She’s better than that! She’s going to go back to illegals! I think she’s on Jose IV, wait no he was deported, so for sure Jose V.Whoa there Horny!
You told me you have a wife and kiddos!
I think you'd best stick with drawing a resident Rocky! Alimony and child support would cost you way more than a sheep tag!
*democrats are what I call kids because they contribute nothing to the household as they don’t have jobs but want everything nice in life ?
hornkiller
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I told the wife I may be leaving for 6 months but its for a good cause!
highfastflyer
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Watch out, soon these MM SJWs will want to change Alaska to OIL (Once in a Lifetime) like they are feebly attempting in Wyoming. At one time we had 2000+ moose permits per year and only 12,000 moose hunters so every 6 to 7 years you could draw. Now these SJWs want to restrict everyone for their benefit, not the long term historically sound management we have employed. Moose numbers are definitely trending upwards again as wolves are being hunted. We could easily soon see a 1000 moose tags per year and return to a moose every 10-15 years but watch out in Alaska as these people don’t stop and politics is rapidly changing in Alaska. Sad.
jm77
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You better Google a link for that comment, because that's the first I've heard it.
highfastflyer
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Tags were increased in many areas in 2020 with increasing moose populations as the wolves become hunted regularly and their Pack growth diminishes. I don’t think we will get back to 2000 licenses per year but 1000 a year is potential if we can keep the predators highly hunted.
Moose
Moose herds within the Cody region are doing better than in past years.“The Bighorn Mountain moose herd has seen record-high trend counts the past two years,” said Corey Class, Cody Region wildlife management coordinator.
The Absaroka moose herd has observed higher-than-average calf production through trail camera data this spring/summer in Hunt Area 11, and managers are observing a slight increase in overall moose numbers in Hunt Area 9, particularly within the Sunlight Basin area, Class said.
Moose hunters should expect excellent hunting conditions and excellent success in the 2020 season. https://www.powelltribune.com/stories/hunting-forecast-for-the-cody-region,27062
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highfastflyer
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highfastflyer
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What’s quite astonishing is how some people don’t even trust the Wyoming Game and Fish Biologist. Hmmmmmm???????? Of course what do they know, it couldn’t be the fact they spend so much time afield. LMAO.
”The Bighorn Mountain moose herd has seen record-high trend counts the past two years,” said Corey Class, Cody Region wildlife management coordinator.”
SS!
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Do you understand trend counts and what that record high trend count is being compared to?
wait wait wait I just remembered you’re the same guy that thinks you can’t spotlight in Wyoming. Never mind nothing to discuss! You don’t understand trend counts.
wytex
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Perhaps you're reading while drinking.
I would believe the biologist over an armchair poster on here.
SS!
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Can you show me where I’m disagreeing with the biologist? Yeah that’s what I thought....
highfastflyer
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I’m certain you can teach that Biologist what they are. LMAO. While you’re at it try spotlighting for them next hunting season. LMFAO.
SS!
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No one said they are declining in all populations. But as a whole they are historically declining.
And yes we know you’re an expert cuz you got a sheep. No denying that. And yes they can be shot from the truck where you hunted so no need for wilderness.
-Armchair poster ?
Horniac
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From Eastmans;
”Over the past three decades Wyoming has been forced to reduce the overall moose hunting quota by nearly 2/3, and close eight moose areas altogether in a desperate effort to find a new balance as the moose herd continues to spiral down. What once was nearly 1,200 moose tags available in the draw has now become an anemic offering of only 280 bull tags”
“Significant declines in quality moose habitat along with a disease outbreak have both been partially to blame for the decline in Wyoming’s moose herds. But any resident will tell you, this one included, that super-predators – wolves and grizzly bears, have been the most significant factor in the moose management disaster that has become our reality over the last 25 years. With a string of normal, deep snow winters and wet cool summers, the moose habitat has begun to rebound. The massive record-breaking back to back snow years we experienced in 2016 and 2017 have added to that equation. And now with our wolf season back in place with a double wolf quota, I think the moose in Wyoming are finally headed toward a brighter future. At this point it’s all about solid calf recruitment.”
Horniac
highfastflyer
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highfastflyer
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Looks like 340 licenses for 2020, probably more for 2021 as the herd trends upwards according to the biologists. https://wgfd.wyo.gov/Regulations/Regulation-PDFs/REGULATIONS_CH8.pdf
jm77
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If the "upward trend" continues from last year it will only take 22 years or so to get to 1,000 tags, which most know will likely never happen.
highfastflyer
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As recent as 2001 the moose objective was 14,000 moose. With strategic long term wolf management in place there is no reason to think we can’t get back if we conservatively manage the herd and severely control the wolf population. At one time we had 2000 moose licenses. A 1000 per year goal is attainable with proper conservative management. You need to look at the past century of data to understand the situaion.
http://flash.lakeheadu.ca/~arodgers/Alces/Vol40/Alces40_133.pdf
SS!
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Dang @highfastflyer you seem to think wolves are the main reason. Why was the population and tag numbers going down before reintroduction? Shooting the wolves isn’t going to bring the moose back.
good luck in the draws this year.
good luck in the draws this year.
highfastflyer
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Wolves aren’t the only reason but they are a very substantial problem and studies document that well. The Bighorns and the Snowy Range have thriving moose populations and few wolves. Hmmmmm....??????? https://www.nrahlf.org/articles/2018/3/2/study-shows-wolves-directly-impact-minnesota-moose-numbers/
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SS!
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Answer the question. Why was the population going down and tags reduced for years before wolves were reintroduced?
Of course wolves are a factor. But you think the fix all is killing wolves. You keep mentioning it in all your posts. If only it was that simple. I can’t tell if you’re just optimistic or so naive when it comes to moose populations.
good luck in the draw!
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highfastflyer
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Obviously reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit. Nutrition, parasitic worms and wolves are listed in almost every study on moose declining populations. Wolves being the main culprit. You still didn’t answer why moose are thriving in areas with few wolves like the Bighorns and Snowy Mt Range moose herds. Hmmmmm.........?????
SS!
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Still didn’t answer the question. But I’ll answer yours. I don’t know why they are thriving there and you do not either. I’d say it’s a lot of factors but I’m not going to just blame one like you do.
All I know is there’s a 100% chance I’ll be hunting moose AND sheep this fall. After all this thread is about sheep.
Carry on.
highfastflyer
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Study after study has documented how wolves slaughter both moose and elk. They aren’t vegetarians after all. Go ask the Montana ranchers how their cattle and sheep herds have fared with grizzly and wolf populations. The bighorns and Snowy Mtn. Range have no wolves or very few. Hmmmmmmm..........??????? I did answer your question, again......Reading comprehension isn’t your strong point.
“Nutrition, parasitic worms” are responsible before wolf introductions. Now we will wait and see what happens in Colorado.
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jm77
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Mountain goat and bull bison are OIL as should be bighorns and bull moose. IMO. There is no evidence that sheep or moose will rebound to the point Wyoming could issue even twice the number of tags currently issued. Current sheep success stories in central Wyo are one domestic sheep away from the demise experienced there in the past. Same with the sheep herd being threatened in area 5. With the millions thrown at bighorn sheep studies, there is still no answer for the Whiskey Mountain herds inability to produce even a 10% lamb crop.
In the near future the famous Snowy Range moose herd could see problems as Colorado establishes their own wolf population. The Bighorns moose herd experiences roller coaster populations with no apparent reason.
The only premier big game animal we have that is expanding it's range on it's own, the mountain goat, we slaughter on the premise we could save a dying herd of bighorns that will never be hunted or expand their range out of Teton Park.
I guess that's the cue for a know-it-all reply...
In the near future the famous Snowy Range moose herd could see problems as Colorado establishes their own wolf population. The Bighorns moose herd experiences roller coaster populations with no apparent reason.
The only premier big game animal we have that is expanding it's range on it's own, the mountain goat, we slaughter on the premise we could save a dying herd of bighorns that will never be hunted or expand their range out of Teton Park.
I guess that's the cue for a know-it-all reply...
wytex
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WTF
I did not hunt sheep from a truck, even though yes they can be spotted from a truck. My stalk was on foot and over a mile.
Never claimed to be an expert either.
Jealous much , do your homework and you may get one too.
I did my homework before applying, hunted for weeks before finding a ram that I could legally harvest.
Got real lucky on it's B&C score.
Good luck with your sheep and moose draw, we'll see how that goes for you if you post about the hunt.
SS!
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Woah calm down. I didn’t say you shot yours from the truck. I said they can be shot from the truck. That comment was in reference to your wilderness comment. I hope that clears it up for you.
No homework needed on this end, I know where you killed your ram. It’s no secret and I don’t really care about it. It’s not my type of sheep hunt. I like the steep and nasty stuff. I know I’m crazy.
No draw for me, I hunt OTC. Maybe I’ll post a sheep story this winter sometime.
Good luck if you’re putting in for the snowies moose!
nfh
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Do you wear sweatpants while sheep hunting like you do hunting for moose paddles??
wytex
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Curious how many have been shot from a truck where I hunted, I bet 0, kind of illegal but guess you wouldn't know that.
Everyone knows where I killed my ram, shared that info when asked.
Plenty of steep and nasty in that area too, just no wilderness.
My 2 bull moose preclude me from drawing a Snowies tag any time soon but I know where to find some if I do. Not a problem at all to find nice bulls, could that change you bet it could.
Everyone knows where I killed my ram, shared that info when asked.
Plenty of steep and nasty in that area too, just no wilderness.
My 2 bull moose preclude me from drawing a Snowies tag any time soon but I know where to find some if I do. Not a problem at all to find nice bulls, could that change you bet it could.
highfastflyer
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Way too premature and early to be throwing in the towel on our moose and sheep herds. I am confident with proper Wolf management we can get back to a 1000 licensee per year. Just the past few years of steady hunting on the wolves has thinned them down considerably and the moose herds have correspondingly rebounded. The new vaccines being developed for sheep pneumonia will get those lamb numbers back to historical averages. If not we wait a decade then decide later. If we change it now to OIL and then the herd rebounds we will never get that lost opportunity back. We would have 12,000 resident Moose hunters whom in 12 years at a 1000 licenses per year have all participated in the OUL That would sure be a hunting motivator, giving all those tags to non-residents or the leftover pool. Hell, with your logic as the mule deer numbers plummet and CWD takes hold then we should just go OIL on mule deer. Leave the system alone for another decade to see what changes our management plans are having. A fair chance we can still return to historical levels. If not then we change the system later as the Prefrence point draw basically takes care of the restriction anyways.
nfh
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Fancy term for expensive sweatpants
SS!
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????????
HIGHfastflyer Shoot me a PM and I’ll bring some of the good Alaska stuff down for ya when I’m there in May.
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