Utah Frustration

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cannonball

Very Active Member
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Have a friend who is archery deer hunting. He has seen a couple of cougars and a bear at his blind. He is baiting and has two blind set by deer trails and is getting almost as many predators as bucks on cameras The biggest buck has been a very small three-point. A few spikes and two points and very few of those. Past years have been much better.
Those of you who think the deer hunt is on the downside, don't be quiet, contact someone on the Wildlife Board and complain. Most units are experiencing the same problem. Time to act.
 
Agree that we are experiencing higher predator numbers recently.
I've seen two cougars "on the paw" this summer.
But do you think they would be in such high numbers by his blind if he wasn't baiting in prey species?
 
Been F'D Up since 1972!

People Just Now Noticing it?

In the Near Future You'll be able to Buy/Possess 2 Lion Tags!

You Can Help Thin Coyotes When You Please!

Bears Like To Eat!

BUT UNTIL EVERYBODY REALIZES TARDS ARE THE WORST PREDATOR'S!

NOTHING Will Change!

But It Will Get Worse!
 
mtnrunner260 said:
Agree that we are experiencing higher predator numbers recently.
I've seen two cougars "on the paw" this summer.
But do you think they would be in such high numbers by his blind if he wasn't baiting in prey species?
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Probably not, unless your cameras are by waterholes, then you're liable to see a lot more predators than you are expecting. Heard it time again. Only the O'timers know what it was and could be. Don't like cameras, don't like baiting, but just maybe with these, we will find out how many predators are out there rather than go by underestimated studies by the DWR. Just remember if you see one cat for fifty-two deer you shouldn't be hunting or there won't be any deer left for the herd to exist...
 
Seeing more predators doesn't necessarily mean there are more of them out there! More likely, it just means that they are now more tolerant of people. Unlike deer, predators need to get all their water from an open source and with a now 7 year drought, many of those open sources are man-made, while fewer of them are natural. That just means they are around people more than they used to be. Additionally, bears and coyotes seldom can bring down a healthy adult deer. They're omnivorous and can find food that's a whole lot easier to obtain. And as mentioned, a $30 spot and stalk permit could solve the problem.
 
Description: Lions are nocturnal, preferring to hunt at night. They stake out territories that range from 12 to 22 square miles. ... Mountain lions do not have a definite breeding season. Mating can take place any time.
By the way most of the game cameras pickup lions and bear at night. Now why do you suppose that is?

I doubt drought has much to do with it and the spot and stalk permit would probably work if you could hunt them at night, as is, it is very ineffective. Guess it would work a little on the rifle hunt if there were enough hunters to push them around. Mountain Lions are not like geese and mate for life and the Hounders only want a large male so their appearance doesn't help much. The deer herds are a lot worse than people realize and to blame it on to the drought or a bad winter or something else is just of an excuse for poor management.
 
I learned from a young age to kill predators, lets see some pictures of dead cats and bears. Cougars are at a all time high in the west, a feline disease will be coming just like the mange that was killing the canines over the last eight years. If I could bait Deer in Idaho, I would be killing a lot of predators not Deer.
 
cannonball said:
Have a friend who is archery deer hunting. He has seen a couple of cougars and a bear at his blind. He is baiting and has two blind set by deer trails and is getting almost as many predators as bucks on cameras The biggest buck has been a very small three-point. A few spikes and two points and very few of those. Past years have been much better.
Those of you who think the deer hunt is on the downside, don't be quiet, contact someone on the Wildlife Board and complain. Most units are experiencing the same problem. Time to act.
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Great post Cannonball.
This is a very controversial topic.
It's like politics right now, far left and far right, very little middle ground.
Studies have been done by the Division with the help of conservation groups, changes have been made and are currently in place to help.
Time will tell.

And for the record, predator issues are only a fraction of the lower deer numbers.
 
The population is healthy if we can just walk up to a pair in mid day and snap a picture with a cell phone ?
70252.jpeg

70253.jpeg
 
slamdunk said:
The population is healthy if we can just walk up to a pair in mid day and snap a picture with a cell phone ?View attachment 12318
View attachment 12319
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The level of logic some folks are willing to go to in order make their pre-determined point amazes me! Those photos simply prove that two sleeping lions were caught off-guard during daylight hours by a human photographer. Nothing more!
 
elkfromabove said:
The level of logic some folks are willing to go to in order make their pre-determined point amazes me! Those photos simply prove that two sleeping lions were caught off-guard during daylight hours by a human photographer. Nothing more!
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Although my comment was intended with a little humor, it has nothing to do with a pre determination of predator numbers.
We've already seen and debated facts based off biological studies and there is absolutely no denying people are seeing both physically and electronically more lions today than previous years, which has prompted the increase in additional tags.
 
This just can't be true. You guys have SFW putting all those dollars on the ground to save the deer. You sell all of those conservation tags and give them away like candy at the big show. Hunters come near and far to see the big show for a chance at a hunt of a lifetime. I hear all the time the difference SFW is making in Utah and how the RAC's and Don are working to make Utah the best place to hunt in the world. I also know it can't be true because Utah Division of Wildlife said last year deer numbers were through the roof. You are the only place where dedicated hunters can hunt until they finally kill a deer. There is no way you should do that unless the deer are infinite!!!!!!!!!!

RIch
 
lostinOregon said:
This just can't be true. You guys have SFW putting all those dollars on the ground to save the deer. You sell all of those conservation tags and give them away like candy at the big show. Hunters come near and far to see the big show for a chance at a hunt of a lifetime. I hear all the time the difference SFW is making in Utah and how the RAC's and Don are working to make Utah the best place to hunt in the world. I also know it can't be true because Utah Division of Wildlife said last year deer numbers were through the roof. You are the only place where dedicated hunters can hunt until they finally kill a deer. There is no way you should do that unless the deer are infinite!!!!!!!!!!

RIch
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This is the equivalent of Biden and the Democrats blaming Trump for the pandemic and the rioting.......?
 
Slammy,

It was tongue in cheek, but the point I was trying to make is that all of the tag sales/giveaways, SFW/MDF don't necessarily lead or correspond to better hunting for most hunters. I get the premise of the thought process, but one dollar in, doesn't equate to one dollar out on results.

Rich
 
lostinOregon said:
Slammy,

It was tongue in cheek, but the point I was trying to make is that all of the tag sales/giveaways, SFW/MDF don't necessarily lead or correspond to better hunting for most hunters. I get the premise of the thought process, but one dollar in, doesn't equate to one dollar out on results.

Rich
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That's worded much better ??
 
"Cause the good ole days weren't
Always good
And tomorrow ain't as bad as it seems!"
 
After talking to a few archers, I think they wound as many deer as a cougar takes. Talked to a wife of one archer and he has only wounded three to date. 52 wounded deer a year. That's all he needs to keep up with the cougars.
 
You would be surprised to how few of people who archery hunt shoot their bows more than a week or two before the hunt.

That's a frustration cannonball you should complain about. People hunting and not being 100% about their shooting.
 
I can’t wait to see some guys kill tiny females and kittens and watch people lose their **** over it! That will be funny!!

$FW posted their expo funds report the other day on their Instagram. I was pretty disappointed to see that the majority of the money seemed to be spent on waterfowl and upland game projects. With as much money as they squeeze from our big game, you'd think they would put the money back into them. But oh no, let’s spend money on state areas that already have money from other organizations allocated to them. oh and don’t forget spending tons of many raising farm birds to supplement a general hunt that shouldn’t exist to begin with if we don’t have enough wild birds to justify a hunt to begin with.
 
That pheasant hunt has turned into a good hunt for all the private land owners surrounding the h.m.a.'s!

$.f.w. at its finest!

"Helping the rich out more than ever"

should be there slogan.
 
Im honestly really concerned about all the work they are putting towards waterfowl recently. That seems to be their primary focus right now and they’ve never just done things out of the kindness of their heart. They always have a hidden agenda with things that they love to cash in on later down the road. We’ve seen them do it countless times for big game. Lord Noorda, our savior from the UWA, couldn’t jump in bed with them fast enough with waterfowl benefits, after he publicly said that he wouldn’t ever do such a thing. Then one day he pulled a hard 180 and was praising them. Can’t help but wonder what he got out of it.... anyways, waterfowl was about the only thing they hadn’t plagued yet in Utah, and now they are doing all these projects, I’m scared to see what they will want for it all in the future. Blind draws and limiting public access to increase hunt quality im sure are headed our way at some point because of them. That and other things I’m sure. I did notice they are shutting down part of ogden bay WMA during peak waterfowl migration times for a “private” pheasant shoot this season, that not everyone can attend. It’s odd they chose ogden bay to do it at, and not any of the other useless state owned ground that wouldn’t impact anyone else that particular day of this hunt. Coincidentally, ogden has been where they’ve dumped a significant amount of money this year on habitat projects. They are already cashing out on a few of the IOUs it seems. Again, blocking off the public from public places for a private event.

like I said previously, I’m a big waterfowl hunter and benefit from a few these projects to some degree, but money they’ve “raised” from pimping out big game resources in Utah, needs to be put back into big game. There’s tons of projects that need to be done way before wetlands stuff should be addressed by this group. pen raised pheasant shoots shouldn’t be anywhere near the top of that list. There’s orgs that are centered around waterfowl that have money for these habitat projects. $FW doing it, is very suspicious...
 
ThunderImpulse4 said:
You would be surprised to how few of people who archery hunt shoot their bows more than a week or two before the hunt.

That's a frustration cannonball you should complain about. People hunting and not being 100% about their shooting.
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Here is what I wrote a few days ago:

Dear Mr. Bateman and Board, Last night my wife and I were on the Monroe Mountain and we came across a lady and her small child in their truck so we stopped to see if we could be of help. She told us she was just waiting for her husband and their other boy. That the boy had hit a deer and they were looking for it. The little boy piped up and said, “That’s the third one he has hit”. So I re-affirmed if that was the third buck he had wounded. He said, “Yip”. The mother was not too happy about him telling me. This does not end here. I have talked to four archery hunters and three of them have wounded deer. I hear all the time of bowhunters shooting 90-yard shots with their range finders and newer, better bows. Two of the four are trophy hunters and let's face the fact, the statement that the big ones get away is true. The big ones are hard to bring down with a bow and harder to track. Tracking is a big factor with bow hunting we all know that. With the archery success ratio as high one Monroe mountain as the rifle hunters ratio, just how many animals are we loosing? More than we will admit I’m sure.
 
This is just part of what I wrote to the Wildlife Board. Do they listen to me? I doubt it. I another thing I mentioned was that probably most of them have access to private land and I feel like most of their efforts should be to look out for the average Joe's who have to compete on public lands, those who don't have the vast hours and money to scout where they are hunting, and the limited health or handicap soul who cannot make into the backcountry. I mentioned these and other concerns.
 
I've heard of 10-15 being wounded this year as well! On top of that numerous animals that had been spoiled from bad/long shots not recovered in time to save meat!
 
cannonball said:
Here is what I wrote a few days ago:

Dear Mr. Bateman and Board, Last night my wife and I were on the Monroe Mountain and we came across a lady and her small child in their truck so we stopped to see if we could be of help. She told us she was just waiting for her husband and their other boy. That the boy had hit a deer and they were looking for it. The little boy piped up and said, “That’s the third one he has hit”. So I re-affirmed if that was the third buck he had wounded. He said, “Yip”. The mother was not too happy about him telling me. This does not end here. I have talked to four archery hunters and three of them have wounded deer. I hear all the time of bowhunters shooting 90-yard shots with their range finders and newer, better bows. Two of the four are trophy hunters and let's face the fact, the statement that the big ones get away is true. The big ones are hard to bring down with a bow and harder to track. Tracking is a big factor with bow hunting we all know that. With the archery success ratio as high one Monroe mountain as the rifle hunters ratio, just how many animals are we loosing? More than we will admit I’m sure.
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What do you want the board to do about this? Honestly curious
 
deerkiller said:
What do you want the board to do about this? Honestly curious
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I agree what do you want the Board to do about slob hunting?

I am not saying anyone on this site is telling stories but I know hunters do tell stories. Archery hunters are famous if they shoot at a deer and can not find thear arrow then they must have hit the deer tgey shot at.
 
It’s happening in Idaho to, every fire ring has trash in it. Our big game animals are on a never ending hunting season, Now with the great human migration to the west, they watch one episode of the meat eater and game on, but no ethics. Baiting, spotlighting,trail cameras, 30 spotters for one Deer, it makes you wonder why everything is pushed to private.
 
notdonhunting said:
I agree what do you want the Board to do about slob hunting?

I am not saying anyone on this site is telling stories but I know hunters do tell stories. Archery hunters are famous if they shoot at a deer and can not find thear arrow then they must have hit the deer tgey shot at.
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I listed them to the Wildlife Board and I'm here to tell you nothing I wrote is a fabrication in the least. Hawkbill named some. Most 12 year old's are not responsible enough to know what is ethical. That must come from their parents. If he had wounded three deer as his younger brother said should his dad stop him for hunting? How would you advise your youngster? I have been a bow hunter and quit hunting on Elk Ridge years ago when I wounded two deer. I should have quit when I wounded one deer. How many really even do that. A nearly month-long hunt is way too long. I'm in the mountains a lot. Recently, I came across a Mom driving several youngsters around the mountains in the back of her pickup. Bows with the arrows out of the quivers of some of the bows. I would like to see cased bow and arrows if in a moving vehicle.

To your first quote - What I have seen, I'm inclined to think "slob hunting" is now the norm partially due to the parents of some of the very young hunters. See a dumb little spike, jump out of the truck, and the chase is on.
 
cannonball said:
I listed them to the Wildlife Board and I'm here to tell you nothing I wrote is a fabrication in the least. Hawkbill named some. Most 12 year old's are not responsible enough to know what is ethical. That must come from their parents. If he had wounded three deer as his younger brother said should his dad stop him for hunting? How would you advise your youngster? I have been a bow hunter and quit hunting on Elk Ridge years ago when I wounded two deer. I should have quit when I wounded one deer. How many really even do that. A nearly month-long hunt is way too long. I'm in the mountains a lot. Recently, I came across a Mom driving several youngsters around the mountains in the back of her pickup. Bows with the arrows out of the quivers of some of the bows. I would like to see cased bow and arrows if in a moving vehicle.

To your first quote - What I have seen, I'm inclined to think "slob hunting" is now the norm partially due to the parents of some of the very young hunters. See a dumb little spike, jump out of the truck, and the chase is on.
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and Cannon that is a frustration I personally have. I know a few guys that don't think if they wound a deer they should have to punch their tag. Me on the other hand, thankfully I have never wounded a deer but if I did then my tag is punched. That is just how I was raised and my kids as well as my nieces and nephews will be taught the same mentality.

As sportsman we need to hold each other accountable for situations such as that. Because like what was stated earlier how many animals are killed and not accounted for due to them never being found.

I have shooting limits and I do not push past it. I practice out to 100 with my bow and 500 with my rifle. I am confident at those ranges with both but won't shoot past 60 with my bow or 350 with my rifle. And I shoot both year round. Rifle I aim to have all my shots under 200 and bow under 40 for at that ranges in theory I should have no reasonable doubt I would be unsuccessful. I don't take shots I don't feel comfortable with and for that reason I have yet to lose an animal.
 
Thank you Thunder, but you are one of the very few. I will bet over 90% of archery hunters who wound a deer never quit until their tag is punched. Let's see! That's probably low. Lets say 98%. Actually I'm not sure I would ask anyone to hang it up after wounding a deer, but after two, yes hang it up. Wounded animals are a real problem with archery hunting. Worse than that is most archery hunters today have no idea how to systematically organize to track a wounded animal. It's all willy-nilly, look for a little while, jump in the truck, and find another animal to shoot.
 
cannonball-

You seem to be painting with a very broad brush. Don’t judge all archery hunters based on a single experience on the mountain. I have never wounded and lost an animal while archery hunting but I have while rifle hunting. I still feel bad about losing that buck despite my best efforts to recover him. I hope all of us hunt ethically and look for opportunities to teach those ethics to the next generation.

hawkeye
 
Speaking of "slob hunters" I had a conversation with a guy last night who was bragging about his new Remington ML700 muzzleloader and how he is having scope turrets made so he can shoot his 300gr projectiles that he claims are going 3000fps shoot out to 900 yards.

First off he must think I am an idiot.
2nd, there is absolutely no way he is pushing a 300gr bullet from a muzzy 3000 fps, not even a 338 Lapua can do that.
3rd, he wouldn't have enough MOA on his scope to account for the kind of drop his bullet will REALLY have.
4th, the energy at 900 yards with realistic ballistics would be like throwing a loaf of fresh hot corn bread at a brick wall.

I should mention he was with his 72 year old father on a wasatch LE rifle hunt last year and hit a bull at 900 yards with a 300 RUM after 11 shots and found the bull the next evening completely spoiled and bloated.

These type of people aren't "Hunters", they are "Killers"........there is an enormous difference.
 
It's all the bad drivers. A few weeks ago I was thinking about the quantity of deer looking good. I just came back from the mountain and lost track how many were now dead on the road.

I've got a solution, rather than cut tag numbers how about if you hit a deer driving then you don't get to apply the following year.
 
Hawkeye said:
cannonball-

You seem to be painting with a very broad brush. Don’t judge all archery hunters based on a single experience on the mountain. I have never wounded and lost an animal while archery hunting but I have while rifle hunting. I still feel bad about losing that buck despite my best efforts to recover him. I hope all of us hunt ethically and look for opportunities to teach those ethics to the next generation.

hawkeye
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Single experience?? No, it has been a lifetime of experiences and I'm very sure I have been in the mountains a lot more than you. I have loved bow hunting, but I really think some changes need to be made like cased bows(and arrows), shorter season, no baiting, game cameras removed before the season starts, and the main one extensive wounded animal tracking training required for archery and muzzleloader hunting.
And if you think there are NOT a lot more wounded animals during the archery hunt than the other hunts you're in denial.
 
GLED!

Your Idea SUCKS!:D

I've Already Killed One Deer Already this Year!



GLEDEASY said:
It's all the bad drivers. A few weeks ago I was thinking about the quantity of deer looking good. I just came back from the mountain and lost track how many were now dead on the road.

I've got a solution, rather than cut tag numbers how about if you hit a deer driving then you don't get to apply the following year.
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elkassassin said:
Hey PUNK!

Easy with The Remington Comments!

I Run 300 MOA on Mine!

The 900 Yard Shot is a CHIMP Shot!

It Might Hit Harder than Corn Bread at 900,Not Sure?:D

I Feel Perty Good out to 200!

heritage-arms.com

M.O.A.B. 300 Minutes of Angle Gen 4 - Heritage Arms, Inc.

The rugged Cold Shot M.O.A.B elevation adjustable scope base is precision built and designed to provide an incredible 300 MOA of adjustment.
heritage-arms.com heritage-arms.com
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Good grief Bess, 300 MOA plus whatever you get out of the turrets?
I think my cornbread example isn't too far off ?
 
cannonball said:
Single experience?? No, it has been a lifetime of experiences and I'm very sure I have been in the mountains a lot more than you. I have loved bow hunting, but I really think some changes need to be made like cased bows(and arrows), shorter season, no baiting, game cameras removed before the season starts, and the main one extensive wounded animal tracking training required for archery and muzzleloader hunting.
And if you think there are NOT a lot more wounded animals during the archery hunt than the other hunts you're in denial.
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Cannonball-

I'm pretty sure you are quite a bit older than me so I won't argue with you about who has spent the most time on the mountain. ;) My point is that hunters are wounding and losing more animals with all types of weapons due to the laong range craze. 500+ yard rifle shots, 200+ yard muzzleloader shots, and 100+ yard archery shots are not out of the norm these days. Rather than criticizing archery hunters, we should all band together to push for more ethical hunting. I have seen lazy slob hunters carrrying rifles, front stuffers and bows. Poor ethics is not limited to a single weapon choice.

Hawkeye
 
I have heard of 3 deer and 2 elk being hit and not found, but surprisingly those young archers are still hunting... :mad:

I blame their parents for not raising them right, my boys most certainly would have punched their tag, if not they would have boot up their azz...
 
Tikka said:
I have heard of 3 deer and 2 elk being hit and not found, but surprisingly those young archers are still hunting... :mad:

I blame their parents for not raising them right, my boys most certainly would have punched their tag, if not they would have boot up their azz...
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And that’s your call, but to condemn another hunter for continuing their hunt after wounding an animal isn’t something that anyone has a right to do and it’s not your decision to make. Again, ethics aren’t law. As long as the hunters put in a reasonable effort to recover their wounded animal, they are within the laws of utah to continue hunting with their permits. I agree that I’m not happy with guys wounding 3+ animals during a hunt, but that’s not our call to make. If you are aware of such things happening, and don’t believe reasonable efforts were made to recover the animals, then there are other routes you can take which include getting the law involved. But my guess is more than likely, your complaint will die when the conversation with the officer is over.

chit happens. We’ve all pooched a shot and hit something bad and failed to recover the animal. If you haven’t, then you haven’t hunted for very long or pulled the trigger enough on living critters, cuz it WILL happen at some point. I’m certainly not gonna tell a guy who’s waited more than half his life to draw a OIL or LE tag, that he has no business to keep hunting after he’s lost an animal. But if I run across some asshat kid bragging about wounding his 4th 2 point this season, he will definitely get my opinion on the subject, but other than that, it’s up to them if they determine they should continue their hunt.

the other side to this, is just cuz an animal is hit, doesn’t mean it’s fatal. I’ve seen many animals who had an old wound that were completely fine. I’ve also had to clean up a few that were obviously not going to recover. I don’t think people shooting and wounding animals who end up dying is as big of an issue as we like to imagine it is. I cover a lot of ground every year, year round, from sheds, to turkeys, to scouting, to hunting. And rarely do I find dead animals of any kind that have any reason to suspect died from a hunter related wound. Does it happen? Yes. Is it as big of a problem as many think? I don’t believe so. But that’s just my own conclusion that I’ve come to from my personal experiences
 
deerkiller said:
And that’s your call, but to condemn another hunter for continuing their hunt after wounding an animal isn’t something that anyone has a right to do and it’s not your decision to make. Again, ethics aren’t law. As long as the hunters put in a reasonable effort to recover their wounded animal, they are within the laws of utah to continue hunting with their permits. I agree that I’m not happy with guys wounding 3+ animals during a hunt, but that’s not our call to make. If you are aware of such things happening, and don’t believe reasonable efforts were made to recover the animals, then there are other routes you can take which include getting the law involved. But my guess is more than likely, your complaint will die when the conversation with the officer is over.

chit happens. We’ve all pooched a shot and hit something bad and failed to recover the animal. If you haven’t, then you haven’t hunted for very long or pulled the trigger enough on living critters, cuz it WILL happen at some point. I’m certainly not gonna tell a guy who’s waited more than half his life to draw a OIL or LE tag, that he has no business to keep hunting after he’s lost an animal. But if I run across some asshat kid bragging about wounding his 4th 2 point this season, he will definitely get my opinion on the subject, but other than that, it’s up to them if they determine they should continue their hunt.

the other side to this, is just cuz an animal is hit, doesn’t mean it’s fatal. I’ve seen many animals who had an old wound that were completely fine. I’ve also had to clean up a few that were obviously not going to recover. I don’t think people shooting and wounding animals who end up dying is as big of an issue as we like to imagine it is. I cover a lot of ground every year, year round, from sheds, to turkeys, to scouting, to hunting. And rarely do I find dead animals of any kind that have any reason to suspect died from a hunter related wound. Does it happen? Yes. Is it as big of a problem as many think? I don’t believe so. But that’s just my own conclusion that I’ve come to from my personal experiences
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deerkiller, that's how I raised my kids to respect the animal they pursue no matter what happened ie lethal wound or a survivable wound, you drew blood your done!!! Go hunt sheep in alaska or any animal in africa, if you draw blood you pay for that animal if you recover it or not.... In other words make it count...

And yes I've lost animals over my many years of hunting it happens, but I was done hunting at that point...
Just my point of view...
 
Tikka said:
deerkiller, that's how I raised my kids to respect the animal they pursue no matter what happened ie lethal wound or a survivable wound, you drew blood your done!!! Go hunt sheep in alaska or any animal in africa, if you draw blood you pay for that animal if you recover it or not.... In other words make it count...

And yes I've lost animals over my many years of hunting it happens, but I was done hunting at that point...
Just my point of view...
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Ok, but in Africa you are hunting a private game preserve where they sell you an opportunity at that animal. If you pooch it, that’s on you. They can’t afford to give you a freebie after that. They sell hunts as a business. Every animal is potential income. If you pay for 1 but shoot 2 and only find 1, the land owner is out the price of that other animal if it doesn’t survive. In Alaska, I’m pretty sure it’s a state law that if you draw blood on an animal, that’s your animal. They have decided as a state to manage wildlife differently than other places. That’s their right. But this is utah that we are talking about, where it’s 100% legal to continue hunting for another animal if you fail to recover one that you previously wounded. I’m well aware how private land/ranch hunts work. I’ve hunted Texas many times. There’s plenty of CWMUS that operate the same way. But on public land, it’s the hunters decision on what to do if that time comes.

I’m glad you are teaching your boys about ethics and what you think is right. That’s awesome, we need more people who care about that and pass on the right ways that THEY believe hunting should be about and how certain scenarios should be handled. But again, you can’t get too mad about someone who has different ethics than you do and decides to take a different route than you would pick and you are free to express your opinion on it. However you can’t take the ‘right/wrong’ stance on things when all they violate is your personal ethics code. You have to leave your feelings and personal beliefs out of it and go off of what the laws put in place say. If you want to try and change it, then there are routes to attempt to do so. But telling someone they are wrong, when by the state law, they aren’t, is also wrong... in my opinion of course. I personally have a different belief than you do when it comes to wounded animals and pursuing others after you’ve failed to locate the one you originally hit. But I am 100% against a person wounding multiple animals in a season, and they continue hunting.
 
"If you pay for 1 but shoot 2 and only find 1, the land owner is out the price of that other animal if it doesn’t survive."

In the real world WE as sportsmen are the "landowner" that is out that animal if it doesn't survive.
 
slamdunk said:
"If you pay for 1 but shoot 2 and only find 1, the land owner is out the price of that other animal if it doesn’t survive."

In the real world WE as sportsmen are the "landowner" that is out that animal if it doesn't survive.
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Ok, great. Sounds like you should try changing the law in Utah about this
 
We would all like to live in an idealistic world, but we don't, we live in a realistic world. You are all right, we should all band together to push for more ethical hunting, but it is just like today's politics everyone is just more selfish. Bowhunting today is like a football game with eight quarters. Just more time to score or nearly score with more wounded animals. I have really loved bowhunting over the years so it isn't as if I haven't been out there.
 

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Bearpaw Outfitters

Experience world class hunting for mule deer, elk, cougar, bear, turkey, moose, sheep and more.

Wild West Outfitters

Hunt the big bulls, bucks, bear and cats in southern Utah. Your hunt of a lifetime awaits.

J & J Outfitters

Offering quality fair-chase hunts for trophy mule deer, elk, shiras moose and mountain lions.

Shane Scott Outfitting

Quality trophy hunting in Utah. Offering FREE Utah drawing consultation. Great local guides.

Utah Big Game Outfitters

Specializing in bighorn sheep, mule deer, elk, mountain goat, lions, bears & antelope.

Apex Outfitters

We offer experienced guides who hunt Elk, Mule Deer, Antelope, Sheep, Bison, Goats, Cougar, and Bear.

Urge 2 Hunt

We offer high quality hunts on large private ranches around the state, with landowner vouchers.

Allout Guiding & Outfitting

Offering high quality mule deer, elk, bear, cougar and bison hunts in the Book Cliffs and Henry Mtns.

Lickity Split Outfitters

General season and LE fully guided hunts for mule deer, elk, moose, antelope, lion, turkey, bear and coyotes.

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