Non resident in wilderness

BuzzH · Feb 6, 2020

SureShot said:
I really wish somebody would get the citation and challenge it in court so we can put an end to it.

Its been challenged and any hunter that thinks they'll win...is wasting their money, time and effort.

States have the right to discriminate against NR's in regard to wildlife any way they see fit.

Only way the law will change...is by, well, changing the law. Challenging it, is a non-starter.

SureShot · Feb 6, 2020

Buzz, I have heard it's never actually made it through the appeals process to determine whether's a valid law because the state always backs down before it gets that far on any given case. I'd love to know if that's not true. Do you have any cases I could look up to verify?

SS! · Feb 6, 2020

BuzzH said:
Its been challenged and any hunter that thinks they'll win...is wasting their money, time and effort.

States have the right to discriminate against NR's in regard to wildlife any way they see fit.

Only way the law will change...is by, well, changing the law. Challenging it, is a non-starter.

If John Sturgeon could beat the NPS in Alaska it can be done in WY. But it’s going to cost money and time. Sadly bitching about the law on the internet is as far as it will go.

Deepcolor · Feb 6, 2020

I started this thread to find out what documents I needed to legally hunt the wilderness areas. I think we have gotten out in the weeds a little.

ralphie · Feb 6, 2020

I‘ve seen multiple wardens and biologists multiple times horseback close to as far back in as you can get in the Teton wilderness without starting to get closer to the other end of it. Jackson based and Cody based guys. During hunting seasons. They’ve pretty much been about as professional and polite as it gets too. I like those guys.

And I’m good with the wilderness law. For no other reason than I like less competition.

Homer · Feb 6, 2020

ralphie said:
I‘ve seen multiple wardens and biologists multiple times horseback close to as far back in as you can get in the Teton wilderness without starting to get closer to the other end of it. Jackson based and Cody based guys. During hunting seasons. They’ve pretty much been about as professional and polite as it gets too. I like those guys.

And I’m good with the wilderness law. For no other reason than I like less competition.

did they verify you were a resident??

jm77 · Feb 6, 2020

SureShot said:
Buzz, I have heard it's never actually made it through the appeals process to determine whether's a valid law because the state always backs down before it gets that far on any given case. I'd love to know if that's not true. Do you have any cases I could look up to verify?

The wilderness guide law made it all the way to the Wyo Supreme Court. You heard wrong. O'Brien v State of Wyoming

WapitiBob · Feb 7, 2020

That's a good read.

Longun · Feb 7, 2020

Here's a comical story to liven up the party....a long time hunter(Old Cowboy) had in times past bent the rules a little bit so he was watched quite a bit by a local game warden...killed a mul;ey and after shooting it gutted it out and was preparing to pack it out and the Warden approached him and asked him for his license...he fumbled around thru his wallet and a couple pockets and got a funny look on his face and told the warden he must of left it in his pick-up...the warden said "you know the law..it must be in your personal possession" so the warden said take that buck to the pickup I'm citing you and confiscating the animal...The old cowboy said you pack it out since you are doing the confiscating...so the warden does..right before they get to the vehicle old cowboy says..Oh lookey hear...reached in his shirt pocket...found my tag and license!!!...No it wasn't me neither HEHEHE

ralphie · Feb 7, 2020

Homer said:
did they verify you were a resident??

they check licenses.

jm77 · Feb 7, 2020

Longun said:
Here's a comical story to liven up the party....a long time hunter(Old Cowboy) had in times past bent the rules a little bit so he was watched quite a bit by a local game warden...killed a mul;ey and after shooting it gutted it out and was preparing to pack it out and the Warden approached him and asked him for his license...he fumbled around thru his wallet and a couple pockets and got a funny look on his face and told the warden he must of left it in his pick-up...the warden said "you know the law..it must be in your personal possession" so the warden said take that buck to the pickup I'm citing you and confiscating the animal...The old cowboy said you pack it out since you are doing the confiscating...so the warden does..right before they get to the vehicle old cowboy says..Oh lookey hear...reached in his shirt pocket...found my tag and license!!!...No it wasn't me neither HEHEHE

He still loses the deer and gets a ticket for not filling out license before leaving the site of kill.

Buffs35 · Feb 7, 2020

Wyoming Has a Wilderness Problem

Nonresident hunters are required to hire a guide to access Wyoming's wilderness. Courts say it's legal. But is it equitable?

www.outdoorlife.com

Buffs35 · Feb 7, 2020

Oh, and my dad can beat up your dad.

SS! · Feb 7, 2020

Any non resident that gets caught in Wyoming wilderness w/o a guide pm me a picture of your citation and I'll pay the 135.00 fine for you.
#makehuntinggreatagain

junior · Feb 7, 2020

Oh, and my dad can beat up your dad.
?? So true!

N_Corey · Feb 7, 2020

The part I’m curious on is if they confiscate the animal or if you simply get a $135 fine.

SS! · Feb 7, 2020

N_Corey said:
The part I’m curious on is if they confiscate the animal or if you simply get a $135 fine.

No way are they taking your animal

Longun · Feb 8, 2020

for the guy trying to beat up my dad....the ticket was filled out...took a while for warden to get to him up front and personal--****-bird..

mntnguide · Feb 8, 2020

Slightlysober said:
No way are they taking your animal

What makes you think they can't take your animal? Same thing as trespassing, harvested an animal where you are not allowed to be. I know for a fact wardens here in western Wyoming have confiscated animals before from blatant violators of this law.

SS! · Feb 8, 2020

mntnguide said:
What makes you think they can't take your animal? Same thing as trespassing, harvested an animal where you are not allowed to be. I know for a fact wardens here in western Wyoming have confiscated animals before from blatant violators of this law.

I’m throwing the BS flag on this one. I reached out to a couple wardens both with a lot of experience and both said no and never heard of it happening.

highfastflyer · Feb 8, 2020

They would most likely confiscate your animal as it was harvested illegally. I have seen numerous other cases where animals were confiscated by wardens when hunters had trespassed, so entering into wilderness areas without a guide is an illegal harvest and would most likely be confiscated.

The outfitters association in the past has discussed trying to require a guide for ALL non-resident elk hunters just as Alaska does with grizzlies, sheep and goats. It could certainly be worse so be thankful you at least can hunt a vast majority of the state without being required to use an outfitter/guide.

Regarding the $135 bond issue that may certainly not apply if the warden ticks the box “Must Appear In Court”. The potential fines are

Low Misdemeanor: A fine of up to $1,000, imprisonment for up to six months, revocation of your hunting license for the remainder of the current year, and suspension of your right to have a hunting license for up to three years
High Misdemeanor: A fine of up to $10,000, imprisonment for up to one year, revocation of your hunting license for the remainder of the current year, and suspension of your right to have a hunting license for up to six years

SS! · Feb 8, 2020

highfastflyer said:
They would most likely confiscate your animal as it was harvested illegally. I have seen numerous other cases where animals were confiscated by wardens when hunters had trespassed, so entering into wilderness areas without a guide is an illegal harvest and would most likely be confiscated.

The outfitters association in the past has discussed trying to require a guide for ALL non-resident elk hunters just as Alaska does with grizzlies, sheep and goats. It could certainly be worse so be thankful you at least can hunt a vast majority of the state without being required to use an outfitter/guide.

Regarding the $135 bond issue that may certainly not apply if the warden ticks the box “Must Appear In Court”. The potential fines are

Low Misdemeanor: A fine of up to $1,000, imprisonment for up to six months, revocation of your hunting license for the remainder of the current year, and suspension of your right to have a hunting license for up to three years

High Misdemeanor: A fine of up to $10,000, imprisonment for up to one year, revocation of your hunting license for the remainder of the current year, and suspension of your right to have a hunting license for up to six years

Not buying it. Scare tactics!

SureShot · Feb 8, 2020

Exactly.

ClearCreek · Feb 8, 2020

Would it be possible the game warden would confiscate the animal and then donate the meat back to you, but keep the head?

ClearCreek

jm77 · Feb 8, 2020

ClearCreek said:
Would it be possible the game warden would confiscate the animal and then donate the meat back to you, but keep the head?

ClearCreek

Absolutely it's possible and it happens. Any G&F violation in Title 23 gives the warden the option for confiscation. How he does it, is left up to him and internal policy.

But if a warden opts to make a violator appear rather than pay a bond, he/she better be ready to answer to the judge what extraordinary condition required appearance.

You already knew all this ClearCreek.

fullcry · Feb 8, 2020

jm77 said:
Absolutely it's possible and it happens. Any G&F violation in Title 23 gives the warden the option for confiscation. How he does it, is left up to him and internal policy.

But if a warden opts to make a violator appear rather than pay a bond, he/she better be ready to answer to the judge what extraordinary condition required appearance.

You already knew all this ClearCreek.

I’m all for it.
When I draw I will take my chances too!

mntnguide · Feb 9, 2020

Slightlysober said:
I’m throwing the BS flag on this one. I reached out to a couple wardens both with a lot of experience and both said no and never heard of it happening.

Call whatever you want. Im good friends with a game warden here in western wyoming. He has told me directly he can confiscate your animal in this instance. He agrees its a bad law, but fact is there are plenty of bad laws in every instance of life. Its his job to enforce them, and if he thinks someone is blatantly breaking the law, he has every right to take your animal.

treedagain · Feb 9, 2020

In Nevada they have unit wide and wilderness only tags. Every elk Tag In Wyoming is unit wide. I can't see how they can take your animal. Ticket sure...the elk is yours.

Bookhead · Feb 9, 2020

The elk belongs to the state and if you break a state law to get it what makes you think they cant take it from you?

SS! · Feb 9, 2020

fullcry said:
I’m all for it.
When I draw I will take my chances too!

mntnguide said:
Call whatever you want. Im good friends with a game warden here in western wyoming. He has told me directly he can confiscate your animal in this instance. He agrees its a bad law, but fact is there are plenty of bad laws in every instance of life. Its his job to enforce them, and if he thinks someone is blatantly breaking the law, he has every right to take your animal.

It’s not going to happen. I want to hear a warden say he will. They got bigger fish to fry.

ss13 · Feb 9, 2020

highfastflyer said:
They would most likely confiscate your animal as it was harvested illegally. I have seen numerous other cases where animals were confiscated by wardens when hunters had trespassed, so entering into wilderness areas without a guide is an illegal harvest and would most likely be confiscated.

The outfitters association in the past has discussed trying to require a guide for ALL non-resident elk hunters just as Alaska does with grizzlies, sheep and goats. It could certainly be worse so be thankful you at least can hunt a vast majority of the state without being required to use an outfitter/guide.

Regarding the $135 bond issue that may certainly not apply if the warden ticks the box “Must Appear In Court”. The potential fines are

Low Misdemeanor: A fine of up to $1,000, imprisonment for up to six months, revocation of your hunting license for the remainder of the current year, and suspension of your right to have a hunting license for up to three years

High Misdemeanor: A fine of up to $10,000, imprisonment for up to one year, revocation of your hunting license for the remainder of the current year, and suspension of your right to have a hunting license for up to six years

Not quite sure where you get your facts from. Seems like a scare tactic, or you’re an arm chair cop/lawyer. Your interpretation and understanding of law is terrible. I place ZERO stock into what you type.

Regarding confiscation of the animal, it’s my opinion that they could if they choose. In reality, that animal is evidence of the violation and therefore can legally be seized. Now, it’s my experience that those types of decisions are made based off of past practice and internal policy. So, the only people who can give a solid answer would be a warden.

In addition, a warden can choose to turn an eye if he/she disagrees with or feels strongly against a law. This would be similar to a police officer not pulling someone over for goin 8mph over the speed limit or choosing to ignore a underage person holding a beer can....

jm77 · Feb 9, 2020

treedagain said:
In Nevada they have unit wide and wilderness only tags. Every elk Tag In Wyoming is unit wide. I can't see how they can take your animal. Ticket sure...the elk is yours.

This is how:
23-6-109. Search with or without warrant; confiscation and disposition of wildlife. (a) Any person authorized to enforce the provisions of this act may seize and take into custody any wildlife which has been unlawfully taken or which is unlawfully in possession. Any wildlife so confiscated may be sold to the best advantage and funds received credited to the Wyoming game and fish fund.

treedagain · Feb 9, 2020

I dont see it happening. Has it ever been done? Not yes it's been done, but a verifiable court case.

jm77 · Feb 9, 2020

treedagain said:
I dont see it happening. Has it ever been done? Not yes it's been done, but a verifiable court case.

Wardens statewide confiscate game every year for a multitude of reasons. Confiscation does not go through the court, the warden has the authority in statute. In most cases, if a trophy animal is involved in an illegal activity, it is confiscated.

SS! · Feb 9, 2020

jm77 said:
Wardens statewide confiscate game every year for a multitude of reasons. Confiscation does not go through the court, the warden has the authority in statute. In most cases, if a trophy animal is involved in an illegal activity, it is confiscated.

So you’re saying If it’s not a trophy the warden will let you off? Whew! Glad I shoot dinks!

dragonshed · Feb 9, 2020

ahh wyoming, still a good old boys club. The outfitters are the legislators or at least they are good buddies. But hey that sounds alot better than having green hippies as your legislators so a guy can't complain too much. This much is true though, the wilderness resident law is complete self-serving bullshit and everyone knows it!

highfastflyer · Feb 9, 2020

dragonshed said:
ahh wyoming, still a good old boys club. The outfitters are the legislators or at least they are good buddies. But hey that sounds alot better than having green hippies as your legislators so a guy can't complain too much. This much is true though, the wilderness resident law is complete self-serving bullshit and everyone knows it!

I won’t disagree with you it’s a BS law but it could be worse. Be thankful Wyoming doesn’t follow Alaska’s lead and require All non-residents to hire a guide for all elk, bear and sheep hunts. The outfitter association has discussed this at times. Alaska requires all Non-res to hire a guide for Grizzly, sheep and goats, whether wilderness or not. Wyoming at least affords you the opportunity outside wilderness. Could be worse.

highfastflyer · Feb 9, 2020

ss13 said:
Not quite sure where you get your facts from. Seems like a scare tactic, or you’re an arm chair cop/lawyer. Your interpretation and understanding of law is terrible. I place ZERO stock into what you type.

Only 40+ years of hunting in Wyoming and having numerous friends in the Wyoming Game and Fish. Opinions are like arseholes, only yours ss13 seems smellier than most. If you want to man up and challenge it, be my guest. You can only lead a deaf, dumb and blind horse around so much. This law has withstood 30+ years of enforcement. Illegally taking a game animal almost always results in confiscation.

ss13 · Feb 9, 2020

highfastflyer said:
Only 40+ years of hunting in Wyoming and having numerous friends in the Wyoming Game and Fish. Opinions are like arseholes, only yours ss13 seems smellier than most. If you want to man up and challenge it, be my guest. You can only lead a deaf, dumb and blind horse around so much. This law has withstood 30+ years of enforcement. Illegally taking a game animal almost always results in confiscation.

You’re too funny! So, I am right about you being an arm chair quarterback. You are not an attorney, warden, cop, or in any occupation where you deal with and use law on a regular basis. If you did, you’d know that careful reading is extremely important in proper interpretation. Read my post a little closer please. I never said an animal wouldn’t be taken. I said that it can be legally taken, but it most likely would come down to discretion, based off of past practice and/or policy.

Excuses are like *******, but guess what, I never made an excuse.... In fact, I never said I was going to challenge this law.

Question for you, do you ever speed? How about come to a complete stop at all stop signs? Pot, meet kettle.

SS! · Feb 9, 2020

ss13 said:
Question for you, do you ever speed? How about come to a complete stop at all stop signs? Pot, meet kettle.

No he doesn’t, as the cops can take your vehicle for such an act!!!!

ClearCreek · Feb 9, 2020

Slightlysober said:
So you’re saying If it’s not a trophy the warden will let you off? Whew! Glad I shoot dinks!

I do not know the size of animals you normally kill during the hunting season, and I really don't care. But what JM77 stated:

Wardens statewide confiscate game every year for a multitude of reasons. Confiscation does not go through the court, the warden has the authority in statute. In most cases, if a trophy animal is involved in an illegal activity, it is confiscated.

is absolutely true. Nowhere in his post did he indicate a game warden would "let you off" if you killed a smaller size animal.

This past hunting season I know a hunter that shot a yearling buck antelope on a Type 6 (doe / fawn) license. The game warden was promptly called and the hunter was issued a citation (bond was $235). The yearling buck was confiscated and the meat was donated back to the hunter. The head was removed and taken by the game warden.

ClearCreek

SS! · Feb 9, 2020

ClearCreek said:
I do not know the size of animals you normally kill during the hunting season, and I really don't care. But what JM77 stated:

Wardens statewide confiscate game every year for a multitude of reasons. Confiscation does not go through the court, the warden has the authority in statute. In most cases, if a trophy animal is involved in an illegal activity, it is confiscated.

is absolutely true. Nowhere in his post did he indicate a game warden would "let you off" if you killed a smaller size animal.

This past hunting season I know a Hhhh that shot a yearling buck antelope on a Type 6 (doe / fawn) license. The game warden was promptly called and the hunter was issued a citation (bond was $235). The yearling buck was confiscated and the meat was donated back to the hunter. The head was removed and taken by the game warden.

ClearCreek

Cool story bro. Are you trying to use the antelope story to somehow tie into the wilderness hunting? Apples to oranges.

ClearCreek · Feb 9, 2020

Slightlysober said:
Cool story bro. Are you trying to use the antelope story to somehow tie into the wilderness hunting? Apples to oranges.

I was giving an example of WGFD wardens being able to confiscate an animal, as JM77 indicated, " for a multitude of reasons".

ClearCreek

SS! · Feb 9, 2020

ClearCreek said:
I was giving an example of WGFD wardens being able to confiscate an animal, as JM77 indicated, " for a multitude of reasons".

ClearCreek

Riiiiight. There’s no debate from anyone that they confiscate animals. From hunting wilderness? Nooope.

highfastflyer · Feb 9, 2020

Slightlysober said:
Cool story bro. Are you trying to use the antelope story to somehow tie into the wilderness hunting? Apples to oranges.

You can lead a deaf, dumb and blind horse to water but you can’t force him to drink. Harvesting an elk illegally will almost always result in confiscation of the animal. I just spoke with Game Warden from Pinedale

Slightlysober said:
Cool story bro. Are you trying to use the antelope story to somehow tie into the wilderness hunting? Apples to oranges.

You can lead a deaf, dumb and blind horse to water but you can’t force him to drink. In almost all cases an elk harvested Illegally will be confiscated. I just got off the phone with Bubba Haley from Pinedale, you can call him at 307 367-4704. He said, “I confiscate all Illegally taken elk” as he takes them to donate to local charities, who love the elk meat.

SS! · Feb 9, 2020

highfastflyer said:
You can lead a deaf, dumb and blind horse to water but you can’t force him to drink. Harvesting an elk illegally will almost always result in confiscation of the animal. I just spoke with Game Warden from Pinedale

You can lead a deaf, dumb and blind horse to water but you can’t force him to drink. In almost all cases an elk harvested Illegally will be confiscated. I just got off the phone with Bubba Haley from Pinedale, you can call him at 307 367-4704. He said, “I confiscate all Illegally taken elk” as he takes them to donate to local charities, who love the elk meat.

I like bubba lot. I also know at least when it comes to deer in wilderness areas he doesn’t confiscate. Bubba is one of the hardest working wardens out there. Even answers phone calls from fools on Sunday’s I see...

jm77 · Feb 10, 2020

Slightlysober said:
I like bubba lot. I also know at least when it comes to deer in wilderness areas he doesn’t confiscate. Bubba is one of the hardest working wardens out there. Even answers phone calls from fools on Sunday’s I see...

Interesting. I'm sure Bubba gave you the ok to say he won't confiscate deer in the wilderness. That's weak and uninformed.

wytex · Feb 10, 2020

Very entertaining, you all stating how you will ignore the law if you draw and will hunt the wilderness.
You are just daring a GW to enforce the law on a public forum, good luck with that.
To say no GW will confiscate an animal taken illegally from a wilderness area is pretty bold, guess you have talked with all of them? I know the one I talked with had the exact opposite view of your argument, he will confiscate and it could lead to loss of hunting privileges.
It will be pretty easy to test though, just post up your draw results and which wilderness area you'll be in, I'm betting a GW would be willing to pay you a visit during the season and discuss the law.

Hunt_the_West · Feb 10, 2020

fullcry · Feb 10, 2020

Carma is a “Biootch”.
I just read we’re they are thinking about dropping Non Residents licenses to 10%.
SO ITS COMING SOON That’s awesome.
More tags for residents!!!!
And less tags for out of staters!!!
So Long term that means less power down the road for the good old boys which is
The Outfitters/Welfare club.
It’s gonna cut there business and they will start to fade away.

SS! · Feb 10, 2020

jm77 said:
Interesting. I'm sure Bubba gave you the ok to say he won't confiscate deer in the wilderness. That's weak and uninformed.

Read between the lines Jim. Bubba is the best out there. And one of the most fair LEO you will ever come across.

SS! · Feb 10, 2020

fullcry said:
Carma is a “Biootch”.
I just read we’re they are thinking about dropping Non Residents licenses to 10%.
SO ITS COMING SOON That’s awesome.
More tags for residents!!!!
And less tags for out of staters!!!
So Long term that means less power down the road for the good old boys which is
The Outfitters/Welfare club.
It’s gonna cut there business and they will start to fade away.

Outfitters will stay in business. No doubt about that. In fact its getting pretty popular for residents to hire outfitters for their OIL hunts like sheep and moose......

jm77 · Feb 10, 2020

Slightlysober said:
Read between the lines Jim. Bubba is the best out there. And one of the most fair LEO you will ever come across.

I know who Bubba is, have talked to him and without a doubt he will confiscate a deer depending on the circumstances. He would never tell you otherwise.

And my name is not Jim.

fullcry · Feb 10, 2020

Shirley you jest.
And my name is not Shirley.?

Bookhead · Feb 10, 2020

Havent you ever heard the saying. Mice get killed in traps cause they dont understand why the cheese is free? Try your luck with bubba and i bet he'll make a great example out of the mouse you are sure to be.

SS! · Feb 10, 2020

jm77 said:
I know who Bubba is, have talked to him and without a doubt he will confiscate a deer depending on the circumstances. He would never tell you otherwise.

And my name is not Jim.

You missed the Jim joke. It’s ok it was a bad reference.

Of course he confiscates deer etc. He’s a great game warden. Will he in a wilderness area where that is the only violation? Sounds like he could.... could.... could... That’s all....

ralphie · Feb 11, 2020

It’s pretty sad when non residents whine about not getting enough wyoming tags, nevermind we currently give more % than most western states, then they start considering how they’ll break our laws when they draw a tag.

I wonder how that attitude will impact resident support for less non resident tags